Big Brother Is Watching You with iPhones

NPR has a crazy fucking story.

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Researchers at the University of Exeter discovered that iPhones using the latest operating system keeps detailed records of where you've been.

At the O'Reilly Where 2.0 Conference, Peter Warden, of Data Science Toolkit, and Alasdair Allan, a researcher at University of Exeter, said they were looking to visualize information on phones. It might reveal things you didn't even know you were carrying around said Warden.

On their iPhones, they found a file simply titled "consolidated.db" and it had a series of latitude and longitudes. Perhaps, the researchers thought, the phone would store a week's worth of locations for the pictures they had taken. Then they took the data and put it on a map and were surprised with what they found.

"It turned out to be pretty much a year's worth of data for every cell [tower] that we've been through since we upgraded to iOS4," said Warden.

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Credit goes to Josh for posting this on Facebook. I don't know why he didn't post it here, though. Shit is nuts.

Yeah, a friend posted this earlier on fb. Shit like this is unacceptable.

It is way lame, but not as lame as it could be.

It's more the implications of what it could turn into.

I mean, they could potentially use stuff like this as evidence in court. Is it legal to keep this kind of information without your expressed consent? TNL lawyers?

It's stored locally on your computer. It's on you if it's not encrypted.

I just use foursquare at the houses of the people I murder. It's easier for me to keep track that way.

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Originally Posted by Josh

It is way lame, but not as lame as it could be.

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Just wait.

This is awesome. I wonder how long it will be before this information is sued to get someone off or convicted.

Well then, I'm really glad I didn't upgrade to iOS 4. Ha.

This would cause more of a shitstorm if people didn't love Apple so much. If this was found on a Windows-based phone? Mother of God, people would be rioting. But it's only been a few days. Let's see how pissed people get.

I think the difference there is in the size and spread of the company.

I wonder if the under 20 crowd will even care. A lot of those kids couldn't give two shits as long as they are trendy and in.

Holy fuck. I'm a bit on the paranoid side, I would really, really like to know what the fuck Apple was thinking keeping that kind of information on the phone. I mean sure, it could have a lot of good, practical uses, but this is the kind of shit you should tell people about first.

Wait, a device on my person that can tell me where I am, and what is nearby is keeping track of where I am?

No fucking way.

How naive are you guys? You didn't think this was going to happen?

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Originally Posted by Opaque

It's more the implications of what it could turn into.

I mean, they could potentially use stuff like this as evidence in court. Is it legal to keep this kind of information without your expressed consent? TNL lawyers?

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From what I read on Ars today, your carrier keeps a log of every cell tower you connect to. That shit can be taken and used by law enforcement with a subpoena/warrant/whatever.

I really don't think legality is an issue here.

I was under the impression that any cell phone from the last few years already did something like this just due to the nature of the technology.

It's not the fact that the tracking is possible that is the issue to me, I mean once they started putting GPS's in phones it was inevitable. The point is that they are keeping a log tracking peoples' movements going back a whole year, doing God knows what with that information, and never telling the consumer. Sure, it's probably for potential advertising, but I don't like the slippery slope here.

Contrary to my paranoia, however, I leave my phone's GPS on most of the time just in case of an emergency. I turn it off when I go out to murder people.

From the story, it doesn't sound like Apple is even collecting it. It's just being stored on the device and its backup, which is encrypted, as Josh said, unless you're an idiot. So when you murder somebody, just throw the phone in a lake and delete your backup.

I don't think it stored it for so long, or it was kept as a file that was easy to read.

I think they had to triangulate your location based on your distance from cell towers and had to get this info from your phone provider. Not your phone.

Serial murderers carry iPhones? Fucking hipster faggot Dexter.

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Originally Posted by GohanX

I turn it off when I go out to murder people.

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Seriously. That is what sharpies and gas station maps are for.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

I don't think it stored it for so long, or it was kept as a file that was easy to read.

I think they had to triangulate your location based on your distance from cell towers and had to get this info from your phone provider. Not your phone.

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Two different things. The provider can triangulate any GPS-enabled phone. But this is a file on the device itself.

I know.

I'm just saying I think that back when cell phones first started they could do it with towers.

I am actually really surprised people didn't know this already.

We are in talks with the Blue Jays to run their mobile contesting. One of the ideas is have everyone with a PHONE (not even a smart phone) in the SkyDome gets automatically entered in to a draw for a free dinner at the Keg (or whatever other sponsor giveaway Jays are running). You can opt out if you want but they just move on to another winner. Also if you use Chrome Google can track exactly what you're viewing and your habits (and it knows who you are - it isn't just a demographic like WHITE MALE 24 VIEWING PORN kind of shit. It's JOSH AGE 31 PUNK ROCK ENTHUSIAST ENJOYS POSTING ON NERD-CULTURE FORUMS LIKE TNL). Facebook does this too for people linked to their site (and on their site).

Just wait for RFID to hit it big. Example.

This will all eventually result in advertising just like it is portrayed in the film version of Minority Report.

Whatever. I'm pretty indifferent to this sort of shit.

It isn't that big of deal if everyone grows up and doesn't make a big deal about whatever way people are weird or different.

It gets evil and nasty when people use it to black mail people for shit that isn't wrong. Like if someone in a rural area used it to find ouf it their son was gay and then sent him to no-gay christian camp.

Which is is coming.

There is already shit to monitor internet and tv. It won't be long until you can pay someone to monitor your kids phone and inform you about what your kid is doing. I can see it now. Bobby is shipped off to christian camp because Mommy pad PhoneScanners to inform her that he was having sexual conversations with other boys. Or some bible beating dork in high school hacks a gay kids account and makes it known in school. The boy is later beat to death.

Go America.

Everybody needs to calm the fuck down.

Apple isn't receiving this data, it's not a 'secret file' and it's been known about for months.

http://alexlevinson.files.wordpress....1/04/photo.jpg
From a book on iOS data forensics published in December 2010.

And now it seems it's not even tracking your device.

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...the iPhone is actually storing the locations of the cell phone towers that it communicates with. My guess is that the iPhone uses this data to help it locate cell towers if it is in the same location again in the future.

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Even this morning when the whole world thought Steve Jobs was watching them, I didn't give a fuck. Now, it's such a huge fucking non-issue I could shit my pants.

Please continue flapping your vaginas over your 'privacy'.

First they came for Detour, but I said nothing

Don't you live in Australia? Shut up.

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Originally Posted by kingoffighters

Serial murderers carry iPhones? Fucking hipster faggot Dexter.

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I LOLed.

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Originally Posted by Proto Man

Don't you live in Australia? Shut up.

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We have cell phones too! Except we call them mobile phones!

I bet almost everyone in here complaining about this shit has a facebook account. Faggots.

facebook barely knows about the wretched creature I am.

Here's my tracking data. Note how utterly fucking harmless it is. OH MY GOD TOM TRAVELS IN AND AROUND GREATER METROPOLITAN SYDNEY!

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/att...1&d=1303373958

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

facebook barely knows about the wretched creature I am.

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You'd be surprised what someone can find out about you by looking at your social graph. It has very little to do with what you actually post.

Oh I already know. I've studied systems theory, probability and stats. Combine all that and you can make a program that can data mine through facebook and determine probabilities of your character traits. Shit, I'll put in in a language everyone can understand. You know gambling/game theory? They can look at your facebook friends list and calculate the likelihood that you are atheist, democrat, or gay by your friends list in much the same way you would calculate the likelihood that the man standing across you has a full house. Or to make it even clearer, birds of a feather flock together.

and heck, even if I didn't understand the tech behind it, I've personally met one of the founders of this company:



take out all the - and new lines. oh and change dot to .

Read the section about their "products"

It is all scary as fuck government surveillance software. And the founders are all ex-government and ex-military.

As it is now, the government can look at your medical, criminal, and school records. They can figure out the likelihood of your beliefs. Where you are, where you go, and where you have been. They can figure out what you have bought and tend to buy. They can track you in any language. And they can run everything you say through software and determine the probability that you are lying.

They have everything the need to know who you are and who you will be.

God help us if any modern government tries to legislate morality using these tools.

oops, I mean this company

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Originally Posted by Detour

Here's my tracking data. Note how utterly fucking harmless it is. OH MY GOD TOM TRAVELS IN AND AROUND GREATER METROPOLITAN SYDNEY!

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don't be naive.

If a person had access to this information and you were a creature of habit, they could kill you and not get caught. They'd only need to work something into your routine. The more information a person has on you and where you normally go, the easier it would be for them to make a plan, execute it and create a reasonable alibi.

Yeah, it would probably never happen to you. But what about rapist? Or pedophiles? Murders? Think about how easy this would make it for a ped to rape some stupid 14 year old girl who doesn't have the damn sense to encrypt anything on her phone or protect her computer. She probably goes to the same places every other day.

Jesus fuck really? Naive?! If someone wants to kill you they're going to fucking do it regardless of what data they have available. I can't believe that's an actual concern for people "What if a murderer wants to kill me and breaks into my house and steals my iphone backup and finds out I go to the library every second thursday!?" - I mean, really?

14 year olds have been raped for a long fucking time since before the advent of iOS4.

Let's look at the other side of that coin - parents could use this data to keep tabs on where their 14 year old daughter is and where she likes to frequent (which is as equally fucked up as worrying about MURDERERS! tracking you).

Seriously - take a step back, take a deep breath. Everything is fine.

I loved all the people on Facebook today that constantly check in everywhere (and I mean you know EVERYTHING they do) get up in arms about this. Really? It's fine when you let the world in on your life though.

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

Just wait for RFID to hit it big. Example.

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Disney uses RFID in their parks for a lot of shit, mainly parades.

Also they had a Pal Mickey "Doll" that had an RFID sensor in it, as you walked around the parks, it would get data and let you know what rides had a line, or if a character was coming out where they would be. It would also tell context sensitive jokes based on what park, and where you were.

Neat stuff, I think they discontinued it a few years ago though.

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Originally Posted by Detour

Jesus fuck really? Naive?! If someone wants to kill you they're going to fucking do it regardless of what data they have available. I can't believe that's an actual concern for people "What if a murderer wants to kill me and breaks into my house and steals my iphone backup and finds out I go to the library every second thursday!?" - I mean, really?

14 year olds have been raped for a long fucking time since before the advent of iOS4.

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No, they won't break into their house to get it. They'll just hack their phone remotely.

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Originally Posted by Detour

Let's look at the other side of that coin - parents could use this data to keep tabs on where their 14 year old daughter is and where she likes to frequent (which is as equally fucked up as worrying about MURDERERS! tracking you).
.

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Yeah. I've been over that.

It is only a matter of time before stupid rural bumbfuck moms use this to oppress their kids more.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

I loved all the people on Facebook today that constantly check in everywhere (and I mean you know EVERYTHING they do) get up in arms about this. Really? It's fine when you let the world in on your life though.

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yeah. The whole issue is choice.

This is one time I'm not going to be professor and break it down. If you don't see why the big thing about all of this is choice, I don't know what to tell you. If you can't intuitively figure out why people want a say and want to keep as much privacy as possible, you're just stupid.

Everyone saying "OMG THE WORLD DIDN'T END" are apologetic stupid bastards. You're like those stupid fucks that said the patriot act was ok because "hey, if you don't have anything to hide it won't affect you."

If someone wants to use your iPhone data to kill you they have to break into your house, and decrypt it, at which point they'd probably just kill you there.

I don't give two fucks if there is a file on my computer showing what cell towers my mobile device communicates with.

I will admit to getting baked last night and getting all weirded out about the implications of Drew's RFID link.

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Originally Posted by Detour

Even this morning when the whole world thought Steve Jobs was watching them, I didn't give a fuck. Now, it's such a huge fucking non-issue I could shit my pants.

Please continue flapping your vaginas over your 'privacy'.

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Spoken like a man whose government tells you what kind of tits you're allowed to see. I see the potential to make money off of the progression of this technology, and even though this is a false alarm the fact that your actions are stored locally is probably just the foot-in-the-door towards the next step in geo-locating and geo-advertising. If it's all kept top-level the privacy concerns are minimal. Once it starts telling me exactly what Tom is buying and who he's hanging out with it becomes a lot more intrusive. But then again Facebook does that shit anyway so really people are already getting used to it. Privacy in the future is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Chux

Disney uses RFID in their parks for a lot of shit, mainly parades.

Also they had a Pal Mickey "Doll" that had an RFID sensor in it, as you walked around the parks, it would get data and let you know what rides had a line, or if a character was coming out where they would be. It would also tell context sensitive jokes based on what park, and where you were.

Neat stuff, I think they discontinued it a few years ago though.

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Google just picked it up. It will probably eventually be in every credit card and phone. Once that happens the fun starts. That being said -- it will be VERY convenient. If you and your friends have a tab to pay you can just all use your phones to pay (and split the bill). That kind of stuff is what will make it acceptable to everyone because there's a function to it (not just spying on you for the sake of it).

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But then again Facebook does that shit anyway so really people are already getting used to it.

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People are really only okay with having their privacy violated if they have opted into it or it's so well hidden that no one has found it yet.

But when someone does find it, that shit spreads like a negative PR wildfire.

A lot of people think Facebook just looks at demographics. So white male 25 looking at Pearl Jam page. But they don't. They look at your name, age, where you live, your income/job style, who your friends are who are doing the same thing, etc. It's quite invasive. It also helps people target Facebook ads really well, though. Facebook ads have a better retention rate than Google ones.

We live in public, bitches.

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Originally Posted by Drewbacca

Spoken like a man whose government tells you what kind of tits you're allowed to see. I see the potential to make money off of the progression of this technology, and even though this is a false alarm the fact that your actions are stored locally is probably just the foot-in-the-door towards the next step in geo-locating and geo-advertising. If it's all kept top-level the privacy concerns are minimal. Once it starts telling me exactly what Tom is buying and who he's hanging out with it becomes a lot more intrusive. But then again Facebook does that shit anyway so really people are already getting used to it. Privacy in the future is irrelevant.



Google just picked it up. It will probably eventually be in every credit card and phone. Once that happens the fun starts. That being said -- it will be VERY convenient. If you and your friends have a tab to pay you can just all use your phones to pay (and split the bill). That kind of stuff is what will make it acceptable to everyone because there's a function to it (not just spying on you for the sake of it).

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The only thing that really bothers me is if we don't mature with this technology.

If we are all upstanding, intelligent people that deal with the differences in other people everything is ok. The largest function of privacy is keeping certain parts of your life hidden. Why is that? Because we live in a judeo christian society that promotes the idea that certain actions are bad and some are good. There is this world of good stuff that exist in the public and a world of shameful things that you are meant to keep to yourself.

If we all grow past that, it won't be that big of a deal. If your entire apartment complex finds out Bob down the hall is into shit porn, and no one cares, then great. But we aren't there yet. The US atleast, is still ran by old white men that pretend to be scared of their own shadows.



And before anyone gives me a rebuttal, let me run a very real scenario by you. We currently have decency laws that pretty much negate free speech. If you do something deemed horrible, disgusting, and perverse by the majority in an area, you can be prosecuted and go to jail. There is a man in jail right now for mailing a porn to Florida because of these laws.


So in the future, it will be possible for any of you to get prosecuted for me viewing this board. Plenty of you post pictures of things that the average 80 year old bitch in MS would find abhorrent. Who knows how far they could take it. Maybe it would be just Aurora going to jail for the weird pictures he post. But what if they take it as far as all the dark humor jokes we make? Some people in MS would like to see Josh in jail for all his 911 jokes. They could argue that they are perverse and abhorrent.

If they ever start to prosecute with this stuff, TNL may vanish. Most of the long time posters post things that would upset some people in rural America deeply. I'd be seen as a disgusting pervert. And jesus, what about all the drug talk? What if they nailed some of that shit on any of you and used it to investigate? Can all of you say you're clean?

911 jokes?

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

what about all the drug talk? What if they nailed some of that shit on any of you and used it to investigate? Can all of you say you're clean?

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snitches get stitches. Just look at Grey's Anatomy. He's been gone since he snitched.

you didn't post funny pictures about 911?

I see 911 and I think of Public Enemy. I got confused. Get up, get, get, get down.

I'm also on painkillers today.

9/11 or 9-11.

911 is an emergency call number.

edit:

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Originally Posted by Josh

I see 911 and I think of Public Enemy. I got confused. Get up, get, get, get down.

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911 is a joke in yo town.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

snitches get stitches. Just look at Grey's Anatomy. He's been gone since he snitched.

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it wouldn't take snitches.

All they would need to do is study how a significant sample size of drug users talk online about drugs. Then build a program around that, and run the board through it.

Assuming that every member of TNL that uses drugs isn't a super hacker, they could probably collect enough information to give the police probable cause to get a warrant.

And if the law currently keeps them from getting a warrant because of electronic data, that will probably eventually change.

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Originally Posted by Josh

I see 911 and I think of Public Enemy. I got confused. Get up, get, get, get down.

I'm also on painkillers today.

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excuse me. 9 11, that day jets rammed into things.

I'm betting that if Gilbert Godfrey didn't go to jail for joking about it, like, two days after it happened that I'll be just fine a fucking decade later.

itt: niggers with tinfoil hats.

and the drugs? And the clown porn?

BTW the guy who was arrested for mailing porn to someone in Florida actually mailed a guide to pedophilia. Cheeks failed to mention that little strumpet of info in his diatribe above. I don't think any book should be banned or lead to arrest (though this is pushing it IMO) - but the way he worded it made it seem like that guy mailed a copy of Juggz or something.

I think we are thinking of two separate guys. I'm talking about that guy 1 or 2 years ago that got put in jail for sending burtual hardcore porn to Florida.

People stabbing tits and punching women in the cunt. Stuff like that.

Oh okay. Sounded the same - I guess Florida just does that.

You guys may accuse me of having a tinfoil hat, but as it stands I could probably go to jail in MS for breaking obscenity laws. Between the rule 34 thread and the Type Ryan's new girlfriend thread I'm screwed.

I mean honestly, I don't think the US is as mature as TNL. Do any of you think I've posted anything unlawful enough to go to jail, and that I should go to jail for it? Now, do you think a bunch of 60 year old rural white people are going to feel the same if they view the entire contents of my posting history here? We see this stuff as dark humor at best, and some members being weirdos at worst.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

and the drugs? And the clown porn?

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If the federal government wants to come bust my door down looking for drugs they are more than welcome.

doormat.jpg

Remember folks it is pussy thinking to just let cops search your car. But it is A-OK to let the fed go through all your shit.

If my car is clean, I could give two shits if a cop searches it.

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Originally Posted by Josh

I could give two shits...

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http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/att...1&d=1303402663

Are you trying to say I couldn't? I'll take that action.

Hilary Clinton has a skat fetish. Guaranteed.

I bet Hillary Clinton knows how to spell "scat"

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Originally Posted by Josh

If my car is clean, I could give two shits if a cop searches it.

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you are full of shit. You've started arguments over this like three or four times.

Am I full of shit now, or then? Perhaps it was neither. Can you really be certain of anything?

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Originally Posted by Josh

I bet Hillary Clinton knows how to spell "scat"

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It's Mortal Kombat week.

Sounds like an exkuse to me.

Kould be but you kan't prove it.

Managed to not get murdered by murderers last night. Will keep you posted as the day goes on.

Also, Android phones do the exact same thing.

You could roll your own Android OS that doesn't do that. at least.

As silly and overblown as some of these privacy concerns are, I'd much rather have paranoid vigilance than mindless complacency.

There's a thread about Type Ryan's girlfriend?

Yep. in the bad place. You should go check it out.

We're talking about a hugely popular phone, marketed to the layman, that tracks everywhere you've been. It's not in the TOS/EULA/whateveryoucallit, and the majority of people cannot be expected to even know about it, much less do something about it. How is that a non-issue? Why shouldn't I be pissed that my phone has tracked my every movement and it was basically kept a secret from me?

Maybe it's easy not to care in Australia where people don't even bother to wear shoes, but a lot of ridiculous shit gets subpoenaed or otherwise acquired by the government here in America.

The phone only tracks where it goes. I don't think it's smart enough to keep tabs on you if you leave it at home.

:<

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Originally Posted by Proto Man

We're talking about a hugely popular phone, marketed to the layman, that tracks everywhere you've been. It's not in the TOS/EULA/whateveryoucallit, and the majority of people cannot be expected to even know about it, much less do something about it. How is that a non-issue? Why shouldn't I be pissed that my phone has tracked my every movement and it was basically kept a secret from me?

Maybe it's easy not to care in Australia where people don't even bother to wear shoes, but a lot of ridiculous shit gets subpoenaed or otherwise acquired by the government here in America.

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Read the links I posted on the previous page, rather than getting worked up over sensationalised reports designed to generate clicks. It tracks cell towers it pings. My map shows a ping in a place called Lithgow, which I've never been to. Even if it was tracking the actual device, It's extremely inaccurate data. How is it an issue?

If you're worried about your government acquiring your location data, then throw your phone away and go live in the woods. Your carrier has far more detailed data which it gladly shares with government agencies already.

People like you is how atrocities happen.

There were thousands of people who thought like you in the nazi party.

"HEY, WHAT CAN ANY OF THIS HURT? RIGHT?"

Are you fucking kidding me? I don't even know how to respond to that.

You shouldn't. You should go find a corner to feel bad in.

You killed jews, Detour. Wonderful jews.

It's the whole "why should you care if you aren't doing something illegal" attitude that Fe 26's comment would properly apply to. I'm not rereading the thread to see if someone actually said as much.

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Originally Posted by Proto Man

I'm not rereading the thread

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And there in lies the problem, folks.

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Originally Posted by Proto Man

It's the whole "why should you care if you aren't doing something illegal" attitude that Fe 26's comment would properly apply to. I'm not rereading the thread to see if someone actually said as much.

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I've never once said or implied that. I'm saying this data is harmless, even if you're doing illegal things. Jesus fucking Christ! Some alarmist, self-important motherfuckers ITT.

Its stored in an encrypted file on your computer. Unless you never encrypted the file. Then like Josh said "Its on you..."

But hey let's get all alarmist and not re-read a thread to see if anyone said as much. Just go back playing Gears 3 with your boss all day.

Advocate, does everyone you know, know how to encrypt their shit?

Who gives a fuck if it's encrypted or not? It's HARMLESS. NO-ONE CARES ABOUT YOU.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

Advocate, does everyone you know, know how to encrypt their shit?

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My sister has an iPhone and she can go to hell for all I care. Noone else in my life has a smartphone.

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Originally Posted by Detour

NO-ONE CARES ABOUT YOU.

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:( so true.

You encrypt it by clicking the "encrypt iPhone backup" button.

Seriously.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

People like you is how atrocities happen.

There were thousands of people who thought like you in the nazi party.

"HEY, WHAT CAN ANY OF THIS HURT? RIGHT?"

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I don't think people in the Nazi party really thought that...

It's like this: I don't like the idea of someone/thing keeping tabs on me. I understand that's not what's going on with this information. Yet. Why's it there at all? Because they're up to something. There's a certain amount of anonymity I presume to have, and I don't like being a part of an aggregate.

But they do it on Facebook and Google!

I know. I don't like it there either. It's why I've "checked in" once to see what it did - then never did it again.

Basically, I think corporate marketing is the fucking antichrist. Is it so hard to understand shit like this just makes me uncomfortable?

I think you're overreacting, but it makes sense why you would feel that way. New tech brings new burdens and as we go on, it can be used in more negative ways. I seriously doubt anyone would want to be checking up on you though Icarus (no offense, nobody would want to be checking up on me either), but I see your point. Either a 1984-esque world is ahead of us or we're in for some really spot on personal marketing.

probably both!

society and ruling parties are not static. It will eventually swing to far the wrong way and someone will do something wrong with this shit.

At the very least, eventually this is going to get tied into some parental software to alert conservative parents of the likelihood that their kids are gay/deviants.

"your child goes to these places, has these friends, watches these shows, and has made these comments on his personal webspaces. There is a 75% chance your child is gay or does not share the lord's view on homosexuality. There is also a 45% that your child has used drugs or does not share the lord's view on narcotics. Please click here if you would like to pay 48.99 for a two day weekend at Mike Thomas's Super Jesus weekend to help you and your family through this troubled time in your family's life"

You seem to have a lot of stake in how parents raise their gay kids.

You've already expressed your big fear that this tech will lead to parents finding out their kids are gay. There's no need to tell us 20 more times.