Crime & Punishment

No, it was the side of the upper thigh. It's harder to get a knife in a body than you would think. And I wasn't trying to kill him.

I guess from tv your mind would immediately go to the gut though.

To clarify. He straight shot her - myself and a friend got up and shoved him back from the table. Friend hit him once or twice, then took a shot to the balls. He got a hit in on my face, I hit him once or twice and we fell to the floor. Got up and circled for a second. I took out the knife - a thumb flick Gerber model I keep in my pocket for general use. He swung with a right that I blocked with my left and came down with the knife on his left upper thigh - I was holding it with the blade pointed down in my hand. He fell on his knee and I kneed him in the face. KO. Retrieved the knife, friend, and girl and got out of dodge.

From a bystander's next day account: the cops showed up a bit later, took the story and nothing ever came of it.

There you go.

You should have killed him with kindness.

EDIT: Seriously though, you weren't trying to kill him, but you easily could have with a knife to the thigh. If you need to fight dirty (and it sounds like you needed to fight dirty), then just knee him in the groin next time. As you saw it works fairly well and would have had a poetic quality to it.

EDIT: Well, a nut shot isn't an instant down on everybody, like TV would have us believe, but every man EVENTUALLY goes down from it when rage/adrenaline runs out.

EDIT: Don't stab me.

Hitting somebody in a particular place can be very difficult. Fighting fair is also a stupid concept when it comes to real world conflicts. If I ever got into a "fight" with a friend of mine because we were really angry over something trivial, I would fight fair because I wouldn't want to do serious damage. On the other hand, if in a violent situation like the one Icarus was in or in a situation where I was attacked by somebody that intended to harm me, I wouldn't hesitate to use excessive force. I may not stab somebody in the Icarus situation (but I don't really blame him), but given my latter situation I would do my best to fuck the other person up and escape without being injured.

A friend of mine got jumped by four college age kids last year walking to the store late at night. They were basically out looking for trouble and beat him so bad, he lay on the side of the rode knocked out for almost 30 minutes. If I was in his shoes and had the time to react, I'd probably even shoot somebody if I was armed. There's nothing honorable in that type of violence (nor is there in the type where you deck your girlfriend in front of your friends) and it makes no sense to follow any rules.

I agree with pretty much all of that, I just think there are some key differences in the situations you're describing. This was an attempt at a 2 on 1 ass kicking (which I fully support and would join in given what the guy did) that resulted in a stabbing because the 2 didn't end up outmatching the 1. Though of course once he's gotten himself into that situation, it matters little how he got there.

Yeah, I suppose. It's tough to understand exactly what occurs in the situation of somebody else though.

I have yet to hear any rational, logical defense of retributive justice. It's a purely emotional thing, it's the same as chimps ripping each other's balls off because they feel threatened. It's of evolutionary merit, but not just in any ethical sense.

Justice should be practical and effective as a deterrent and, when possible, as rehabilitative. Anything else doesn't interest me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I have yet to hear any rational, logical defense of retributive justice.

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There is none, but humans write the laws and many of them are just as irrational as Yoshi.

No fucking way am I discussing this with Frog.

You don't have to. I was a philosophy major with a focus on ethics, it's not like I haven't heard it. It's going to come down to some variant of "Wouldn't you feel like blah blah if it happened to you" or "Eye for an eye" or any other fallacy like that. I get it, you want to, it's emotionally satisfying in a way practical concerns are not. I don't really care.

We'll just agree that it's emotionally satisfying and leave it at that.