Thoughts on the Pick-up Artist

Has anyone ever employed pick-up artist tactics, encountered someone who did, went to one of those PUA workshops or was on the receiving end of it? I just read a fascinating article about why guys shouldn't neg (which, if you don't know—and nowadays how could you not?—is knocking a "hot" girl down with a put down to make her vulnerable. Or something), and I wondered if any TNLers thought in terms of "sets" or whatever when approaching women. Is this scene prevalent? And what sort of thinking leads someone to get involved in this scene.

This part of the article got me thinking:

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The problem with negging (whether it's done as part of formal PUA technique or not) is that it's rooted in men's suspicion that too many women think too highly of themselves. Listen to PUAs and Men's Rights Activists (MRAs), and you'll hear a familiar litany: most women expect too much. Blame romance novels or television shows, pop psychology or feminism (the MRAs are especially fond of pinning all their woes on the last of these), but 21st century American women are too demanding — or so these lads claim. They want hot bods and fat wallets and empathy, like some perfect fusion of Johnny Depp, Mark Zuckerberg, and Dr. Drew.

So the "neggers" believe that the only way to combat women's inflated sense of self-worth and expectation is to tear down their self-esteem. They operate on the cruel calculation that the less a woman believes she deserves, the more likely she is to "settle" for the likes of the game-playing PUA. Certainly, there's a ton of anecdotal evidence to support the hypothesis that women's low self-esteem is connected to a willingness to sleep with (and remain in relationships with) men who will treat them badly.

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I'm no help here but it looks to me like the person writing that article was just trying to use the word neggers.

I don't think the idea behind negging is to lower a woman's view of herself, but to project a certain confidence that comes with indifference. There's nothing misogynistic about it, a guy who comes off as trying too hard is not going to be appealing to a woman.

Like they said in Fast Times, "The attitude dictates that you don't care whether she comes, stays, lays or prays. Either way your toes are tapping." Or something like that.

I don't pay much heed to pick up artist bullshit, nor am I anything better than mediocre when it comes to picking up girls, but this article is flat-out wrong about the reasons people do that and why it works.

I'm still laughing at "neggers."

If you need to take a class or use special tactics other than just being yourself to pick up chicks I feel sorry for you.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I don't think the idea behind negging is to lower a woman's view of herself, but to project a certain confidence that comes with indifference. There's nothing misogynistic about it, a guy who comes off as trying too hard is not going to be appealing to a woman.

Like they said in Fast Times, "The attitude dictates that you don't care whether she comes, stays, lays or prays. Either way your toes are tapping." Or something like that.

I don't pay much heed to pick up artist bullshit, nor am I anything better than mediocre when it comes to picking up girls, but this article is flat-out wrong about the reasons people do that and why it works.

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Here's a (lengthy) comment on that page from someone who clearly either runs a seminar, believes in the message, or has found success with it.

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Hugo Schwyzer is missing the point here, as usual.

"Pick Up Artists" and the so called "Seduction Community" exist for a reason.

In our society, despite the limited but very real progress women have made towards equality with men, in the dating world, the old patriarchal norms still hold sway.

When it comes to dating, many women still expect men to make the first move. Men are expected to be bold, confident and fearless of rejection in the dating arena. We don't have feelings (we're men, ater all) so it's not supposed to bother us that to have any hope of dating, we have to approach dozens or (for some men) even hundreds of women and almost all of those women are going to shoot us down.

Some guys are confident (or sociopathic) enough that they can do this with ease.

Some guys, like Professor Schwyzer, are lucky enough to be authority figures who can use their prominence to attract women.

For the rest of us, it is not so easy.

For many men who are shy, introveted or just not good at "the dating game", the thought of trying to go out and meet women fills us with dread and terror. This is especially true for older men, men of color who socialize in mostly White environments, fat men and disabled men.

Some of us (myself included) have basically abandoned dating, because we know that if we keep on pursuing women, all we are going to accomplish is hear the word NO over and over and over again.

All the "Pick Up Artists" and "Seduction Community" are trying to do is level the playing field.

They've made a business out of coaching men on basic dating skills.

That's all they do - they are life coaches for men who don't have the "confidence" that many women demand of men before they will even consider them as a potential dating prospect.

If you actually read their literature, all they are doing is teaching men basic sales techniques, the same way a corporation might train it's representatives who are required to do cold call sales to do their jobs.

Do a lot of these guys resent women?

Of course they do!

A lifetime of striking out with women, of having to sit on the sidelines enviously watching while other men get dates, have sex and form relationships and feeling inferior to those men will do that to a guy!

So let's quit being so damned ideological here!

It's easy for Schwyzer to talk - according to his own blog he used to be a sexy and suave professor who had dozens of admirers among his female students until he choose to retire from the game and settle down with his current wife. Even now, he's widely admired by women in the blogosphere (including by many Jezzies) - if he got divorced tomorrow, he'd have his pick of potential dates within hours!

He's one of those "confident men" that so many women are attracted to - he was blessed naturally with the qualities that so many men wish we had.

Schwyzer's never had a problem with women or dating (other than problems with dating too many women) so he's not qualified to judge those men who do.

The bottom line is, the "Pick Up Artists" are merely filling a vacuum and helping men who would otherwise never get a date.

This is no grand anti feminist conspiracy against women - it's just men helping men meet women.

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I'm just me when I meet women. I'm not even the best looking dude around or get along with the people in my neighborhood. I still get laid on the regular. I'm Spanish, too, and use that in my favor.

This stuff is just silly.

To me, a lot of dating advice doesn't really matter. It might be horse shit, it might not be. The big thing is that it makes people feel like they have a handle on the situation and to try. If you feel like you will succeed eventually, and keep trying, you will get a girl.

And the guys who shell out the money for books and shit don't really care. If you eventually get a date, what do you care if the information behind what you are doing is shit? You probably don't. You're dating or getting laid. And that is what you really paid for.

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Originally Posted by Brisco Bold

Here's a (lengthy) comment on that page from someone who clearly either runs a seminar, believes in the message, or has found success with it.

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This is all just rambling. Like seriously, it's a stream of single sentence paragraphs with no logical structure. I'm not sure what, if anything I can take away from it or how it relates to my point.

A lot of guys try to niceguy their way in and it never works. The negging thing is just an easily digestable way to get guys out of that habit. It works because it communicates confidence, not superiority. Just as effusiveness communicates desperation, rather than sincerity.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

This is all just rambling. Like seriously, it's a stream of single sentence paragraphs with no logical structure. I'm not sure what, if anything I can take away from it or how it relates to my point.

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Basically, it's "Woman have all the power. It's not fair. Implication of resentment toward women. Pick-up artist techniques level the playing field." And others who agreed with him (also probably seduction artists) echoed his sentiments.