Oh, Those Wacky Fundies! Pink Ribbon Edition

I've never liked the Pink Ribbon Brigade, or Komen for the Cure, or whatever. All that pink crap cluttering up shelves, and that stupid pink ribbon, and the specific focus on one particular variety of cancer at the expense of all others, has always gotten on my nerves. I generally roll my eyes and move on, although somehow my favorite knife is a pink-handled one whose purchase probably benefited them in some way, with maybe a whole nickel's worth of its purchase price going to cancer research.

Up until now I only had a general feeling they were full of shit, but today has been comedy gold. Turns out they let a crazy person in to be their public policy VP, and she's rabidly anti-abortion. So, goodby funding for Planned Parenthood's screening for breast cancer, goodbye stem cell research, and hello to the giant backlash. Plus an epic mis-handling of Twitter by a brain-dead self-righteous loony, although it's only a re-tweet rather than her specifically saying it.

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/att...1&d=1328259496

So that was entertaining.

Honestly, I'm unsure if Handel is pure fundie or if she's just rabidly anti-abortion, but she is from Georgia so it's not a huge leap in logic to believe her cross is screwed on too tight. No matter which it is, though, the pink ribboners gave in to the crazy and it's all comedy from here.

James

Cancer and abortion? Those are hardly laughing matters.

Fuck the Komen Foundation for its decision.

Apparently, the Komen Foundation was supporting Planned Parenthood because of their mammography efforts. And they're still supporting some Planned Parenthood chapters that perform mammograms on-site in underserved regions.

Oh the fucking nerve.

They can choose to support whoever they want. Same goes for me. My donations will be rerouted to Planned Parenthood. I don't care about breast cancer.

Rerouted? So you were giving to the Komen Foundation all this time? You're a good man.

I give indirectly by funding people who are in the races. I still don't know why you choose to be an asshole about it, though.

It's not something I choose, it's just kind of how I'm wired. I stopped trying to change it a long time ago.

I'd still go for funding breast cancer research over subsidizing someone else's sexual irresponsibility. But to each their own, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

subsidizing someone else's sexual irresponsibility

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And this is why you're a brainwashed idiot because you also seem to believe the bullshit that all planned parenthood is is an abortion house.

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Originally Posted by bbobb

And this is why you're a brainwashed idiot because you also seem to believe the bullshit that all planned parenthood is is an abortion house.

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I could more easily take you seriously if you could make it through a single post with resorting to personal attacks. Obviously I know that Planned Parenthood offers services aside from abortion. I pointed it out in the fourth post in this thread. I also know that persons of limited means can go there and arrange for an abortion at reduced cost. And I can think of better uses for the money I set aside for charity.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I'd still go for funding breast cancer research over subsidizing someone else's sexual irresponsibility. But to each their own, I suppose.

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Is this real life?

What a ridiculously ignorant statement to make.

Let's keep this above the level of personal attacks.

I used to be for abortion because I hated people and thought we had too many of them to begin with. Now I'm for abortion because of the right to choose. Who wants to see see children running around and wonder "did they really want to keep that one?"

Better off dead, imho.

Do personal attacks against the low-income people who rely on Planned Parenthood count?

I didn't know Andrew was anti-choice.

I'm morally opposed to abortion in most instances, but I don't believe that outlawing it is a realistic answer. It will do far more harm than good. There is a difference between being a frothing at the mouth absolutist and not wanting to give an organization money as a matter of conscience.

I'm pro personal responsibility. Don't visit the casino if you can't afford to lose your bet.

I like when I find out someone is against Planned Parenthood. It allows me to discount every other thing they say.

In this thread: Retards who don't realize Planned Parenthood does more than abortions

In this thread: Personal attacks against people who realize that PP doesn't do anything besides abortions that more responsible organizations don't also do.

ITT: Personal attacks lobbed by people who didn't read the whole thread. Particularly, the fourth post.

edit: fucking ninja'd

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I'm morally opposed to abortion in most instances, but I don't believe that outlawing it is a realistic answer. It will do far more harm than good. There is a difference between being a frothing at the mouth absolutist and not wanting to give an organization money as a matter of conscience.

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I personally do not care, but you decided to give me shit for no longer wanting to support the Komen Foundation. You may as well say you care if I still choose to independently support Planned Parenthood and choose to drop the Komen Foundation.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I'm pro personal responsibility. Don't visit the casino if you can't afford to lose your bet.

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You're anti-choice. That's what I'm getting from you.

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

In this thread: Retards who don't realize Planned Parenthood does more than abortions

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They already know it does, but they focus on one point of it. Either way, it's about the choice to pull financial support (which is fine) and now are angry that others are lashing out about it even though that, too, is their right.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

In this thread: Personal attacks against people who realize that PP doesn't do anything besides abortions that more responsible organizations don't also do.

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Shut the fuck up.

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Originally Posted by Razor Ramon

I personally do not care, but you decided to give me shit for no longer wanting to support the Komen Foundation. You may as well say you care if I still choose to independently support Planned Parenthood and choose to drop the Komen Foundation.

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I don't care either way, I was just genuinely surprised that you had given to them in the past. Wasn't trying to give you shit or anything.

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Originally Posted by Razor Ramon

You're anti-choice. That's what I'm getting from you.

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The pertinent choice occurs long before any abortion.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I don't care either way, I was just genuinely surprised that you had given to them in the past. Wasn't trying to give you shit or anything.

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I'm genuinely surprised you are pro-life considering how many of your previous girlfriends probably had abortions when they thought of you being the father of their child.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

The pertinent choice occurs long before any abortion.

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Like the choice to be raped?

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

I'm genuinely surprised you are pro-life considering how many of your previous girlfriends probably had abortions when they thought of you being the father of their child.

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That's just childish. You really should work on elevating your discourse. And abiding by community standards.

I have noticed that a huge majority of the people I know who are against abortion are also married folks who have very little to no sex. Not that I'm saying this is the case around the world, just in the circle of people I've come across in my life.

Also, Dave, that wasn't okay.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

The pertinent choice occurs long before any abortion.

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The choice to stay pregnant or not is up to the woman, not you or a political party. It happens within her domicile so why should you tell her what she can and cannot do with it? It's like trying to pass legislature controlling her bowel movements. If you don't want to fund it or not support private organizations from funding it, that's fine even though they know PP has other services that help the poor section of our population. But don't come in here and spout your authoritarian bullshit without calling it what it is.

This thread is such a bummer.

Abortions are bad be ause the world doesn't have enough unwanted and mistreated children. Right?

Threads like this really show how full of shit Yoshi is - someone who wants the government out of his life completely yet is perfectly ok with the government being inside of his wifes/moms/sisters/daughters vaginas.

I've been saying that for the last couple of years. Once again, I will say I do like just bullshitting with Yoshi because he's a pretty funny guy to talk to but holy FUCK is it annoying to have this conversation with him.

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

Threads like this really show how full of shit Yoshi is - someone who wants the government out of his life completely yet is perfectly ok with the government being inside of his wifes/moms/sisters/daughters vaginas.

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I mentioned nothing regarding the government. The whole point of personal responsibility is that people govern/take care of themselves so the damn government doesn't have to.

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Originally Posted by Razor Ramon

Once again, I will say I do like just bullshitting with Yoshi because he's a pretty funny guy to talk to but holy FUCK is it annoying to have this conversation with him.

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Likewise!

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I mentioned nothing regarding the government. The whole point of personal responsibility is that people govern/take care of themselves so the damn government doesn't have to.

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So you're pro-choice?

I believe that abortion is murder, but I'm perfectly fine with murder. What does that make me?

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Originally Posted by GohanX

I believe that abortion is murder, but I'm perfectly fine with murder. What does that make me?

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Pro-death

Whoops. I tend to forget what a hot-button issue abortion is because I care so little about it. Planned Parenthood is an excellent organization doing good work across the board, and that includes the tiny little percentage of the work they do that's abortion related.

I'm primarily entertained by this fiasco because a for-profit company masquerading as a charity is getting its well-deserved ass kicking due to going derp-tastic in its politics, and being so completely tone-deaf in handling it that it keeps pissing people off. I also like that the result is getting Planned Parenthood a nice influx of donations, many of which are being made in the Komen name so the thankyou card goes to their address, just to show that a tiny level of noisy crazies doesn't speak for the entire US.

By the way, just to be clear, having an abortion is a responsible decision. If you can't handle a child, dumping a child-shaped mass of cells that will eventually turn into a child given enough time in the fetus is the way to go. The "abortion as contraception" argument is pure straw-man bullshit.

James

James

Komen apologizes for 'recent decisions,' pledges to continue funding Planned Parenthood

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/a...recent-de.html

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The events of this week have been deeply unsettling for our supporters, partners and friends and all of us at Susan G. Komen. We have been distressed at the presumption that the changes made to our funding criteria were done for political reasons or to specifically penalize Planned Parenthood. They were not.

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah, they totally were.

James

Why else stop after decades of support?

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Originally Posted by James

If you can't handle a child, dumping a child-shaped mass of cells that will eventually turn into a child given enough time in the fetus is the way to go.

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being a child of Adoption. You can also put the child up for adoption. The waiting list is long, cause a lack of children to adopt.

Yoshi is a forced pregnancy zealot who thinks women (and women only!) should pay for not living up to his moral standards. He's a lunatic. People like him should not be taken seriously. They are stuck in the Victorian era and have a very mean streak. Unfortunately, there are lots of them.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

The waiting list is long, cause a lack of children to adopt.

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What?

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

Like the choice to be raped?

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Shouldn't wear any provocative clothes like jeans, sweatpants, and sweaters.

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Originally Posted by Thief Silver

What?

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The waiting list to adopt a child .. a baby... is a long waiting list.

Me and Dot went in to adopt on account a' somethin' went wrong with my semen, and they said we had to wait five years for a healthy white baby. I said, "Healthy white baby? Five years? What else you got?" Said they got two Koreans and a negra born with his heart on the outside. It's a crazy world.

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Originally Posted by Advocate

The waiting list to adopt a child .. a baby... is a long waiting list.

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Because of a lack of children to adopt? I am genuinely curious about this, not trying to be fickle, but it's always been pretty well asserted that there are TONS of children looking to be adopted.

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

Like the choice to be raped?

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I missed this idiocy the first time. Since you're once again putting words in my mouth diff style, there's no reason to respond any further.

What are the statistics on abortions and class anyway? I assume there are more single mothers from lower class families who couldn't afford it and these children would be put in to corrosive environments that Republicans ironically don't want to pay for, but I could be wrong and maybe more abortions are done out of convenience by middle to upper class girls who just can't be bothered.

I suspect those would be very, very difficult to gather, because of the legality (or lack thereof) of gathering the demographic data necessary, i.e. a doctor (and I use that term loosely here) probably can't ask a lot of those questions.

I mean there's a lot of kids in Foster Care and I always thought wait lists were long just because the screening problem is very intensive, and a lot of people are wishy washy. Lots of people think about Adopting at some point I'm sure some probably get into it and then back out too. Can't treat a kid like something you pick up and then lose interest.

I think abortions should be difficult, I'm not saying "oh hey let's go get an abortion because I was stupid and didn't think of the consequences." But, I also think the pro-life crowd is massively irresponsible for suggesting to add to the masses of the poor and the damaged. Life or no life, conscious or not, 10-50 years of suffering is a Hell of a sentence to lay on a person when you can pull the plug before they ever know it.

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Originally Posted by Thief Silver

I mean there's a lot of kids in Foster Care and I always thought wait lists were long just because the screening problem is very intensive, and a lot of people are wishy washy. Lots of people think about Adopting at some point I'm sure some probably get into it and then back out too. Can't treat a kid like something you pick up and then lose interest.

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An incredibly complicated but important question is at what level of qualification are potential adoptive parents better for the children than foster care? It seems right now we have the bar set higher than the real answer to that question.

But yeah, if you can hang, kids are cool.

This thread sucks.

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Originally Posted by Thief Silver

Because of a lack of children to adopt? I am genuinely curious about this, not trying to be fickle, but it's always been pretty well asserted that there are TONS of children looking to be adopted.

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There are a lack of babies to adopt, one of the issues is that although there are a ton of orphaned kids, most couples are looking for babies, not 6 year olds.

Stop trying to drive up the market price on babies so that you can get more games for yours in a few weeks.

Shit, you're on to me!

Also it's not weeks, it's days. The due date is Sunday, to be precise.

I smell a diaper already. Thank God those days are over.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I'd still go for funding breast cancer research over subsidizing someone else's sexual irresponsibility.

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Are you trolling or are you really this fucking ignorant?

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I'm morally opposed to abortion in most instances, but I don't believe that outlawing it is a realistic answer. It will do far more harm than good. There is a difference between being a frothing at the mouth absolutist and not wanting to give an organization money as a matter of conscience.

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This is not an abortion debate. Komen wasn't contributing to the cost of abortions. Planned Parenthood is a genuinely vital institution for women's health.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

In this thread: Personal attacks against people who realize that PP doesn't do anything besides abortions that more responsible organizations don't also do.

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Where else can the average low income woman go for a pap to make sure she doesn't have cervical cancer? Where is that cause better served without the abortions?

Lots of women in this thread, I have noticed.

Or at least people that are fond of them...

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Planned Parenthood is a genuinely vital institution for women's health.

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My mother, sisters, and wife have never been near one, and they're all still kicking. You're grossly overstating its importance, as many other places offer the same important services sans the agenda.

edit: Let me remove the anecdotal nature of the above. There are, what, 150 million adult women in this country? How many do you think have been to Planned Parenthood? No way is it a double digit percentage.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

My mother, sisters, and wife have never been near one, and they're all still kicking.

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That's quite the survey you've put together there.

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You're grossly overstating its importance, as many other places offer the same important services sans the agenda.

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Not as affordably, no they don't. I guess poor people shouldn't worry about if they have cancer? I've certainly known women who could not have gotten care if not for PP.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

edit: Let me remove the anecdotal nature of the above. There are, what, 150 million adult women in this country? How many do you think have been to Planned Parenthood? No way is it a double digit percentage.

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You're right. If only several million people need it, it's completely unnecessary. Especially if those people are the most vulnerable to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

My mother, sisters, and wife have never been near one, and they're all still kicking.

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trollface.jpg

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

That's quite the survey you've put together there.
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I've certainly known women who could not have gotten care if not for PP.

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One set of standards will do fine. And I fixed mine before you hit submit.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

You're right. If only several million people need it, it's completely unnecessary. Especially if those people are the most vulnerable to begin with.

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So we need Medicaid, public funding for PP, and Obamacare? Is that because the government can't get any one of them right? Maybe it should get the fuck out of the way.

By the way, I love the "vulnerable" victim card. Everyone is equal until someone wants something for free, and then that suddenly doesn't apply.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

One set of standards will do fine. And I fixed mine before you hit submit.

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You are REALLY bad at following logical arguments sometimes.

Do I really have to explain why exceptions can be a logically sound response to one kind of argument, but not be to another? You were stating that some people don't get cancer. That's not an argument for cancer prevention.

I was stating that some people need planned parenthood. That's a perfectly valid argument that other institutions are not entirely equal in that regard.

Makes sense?

Mostly in reference to Yoshi's question about the percentage of women who use PP: Planned Parenthood's website:

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Planned Parenthood provides sexual and reproductive health care, education, and information to nearly five million women, men, and adolescents worldwide each year.

Nearly three million women and men in the United States annually visit Planned Parenthood affiliate health centers for trusted health care services and information.

Eighty percent of Planned Parenthood health care clients in the U.S. are age 20 and older.

One in five women in the U.S. has visited a Planned Parenthood health center at least once in her life.

Our Work
Planned Parenthood health centers focus on prevention: 76 percent of our clients receive services to prevent unintended pregnancy.

Planned Parenthood services help prevent more than 584,000 unintended pregnancies each year.

Planned Parenthood provides nearly 770,000 Pap tests and nearly 750,000 breast exams each year, critical services in detecting cancer.

Planned Parenthood provides more than four million tests and treatments for sexually transmitted infections, including HIV.

Three percent of all Planned Parenthood health services are abortion services.

Planned Parenthood affiliates provide educational programs to more than 1.1 million young people and adults each year.

Planned Parenthood has more than six million activists, supporters, and donors working for women's health and safety and our fundamental reproductive rights.

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According to other sources PP actually has a larger percentage of abortions, so take that as you will.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

So we need Medicaid, public funding for PP, and Obamacare?

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Well first of all, "Obamacare" in the way you're using it is a made up thing (the bill was just a collection of regulations, more or less). And Medicaid is almost entirely unavailable to the working poor. So yes?

Planned Parenthood also probably does more to prevent the need for abortions than anyone else, too.

They can put whatever they want on their website. I can't even figure out a way they could spin the numbers for that to be accurate.

It's true, Yoshi knows three women.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

You are REALLY bad at following logical arguments sometimes.

Do I really have to explain why exceptions can be a logically sound response to one kind of argument, but not be to another? You were stating that some people don't get cancer. That's not an argument for cancer prevention.

I was stating that some people need planned parenthood. That's a perfectly valid argument that other institutions are not entirely equal in that regard.

Makes sense?

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Your argument was exactly the same as mine before my edit. We both used counterexamples. And yet you called me on it, so I returned the favor. For the record, my mother has had cancer twice and beaten it both times without the help of this "vital" organization. But thank you again for both making assumptions about my family's health and for your condescending "makes sense." Maybe you should leverage this vast intellect you try to flaunt to earn some money to help these people you know get healthcare.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

It's true, Yoshi knows three women.

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Mother + sisters + wife = three. You're qualified for the CBO.

PP and abortions wouldn't be necessary, if people just went to church.

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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

Me and Dot went in to adopt on account a' somethin' went wrong with my semen, and they said we had to wait five years for a healthy white baby. I said, "Healthy white baby? Five years? What else you got?" Said they got two Koreans and a negra born with his heart on the outside. It's a crazy world.

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Damnit! I can't rep you. Just saw this movie last night. Great flick.

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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

PP and abortions wouldn't be necessary, if people just went to church.

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Is that because they'd be too busy sleeping to fuck?

Also.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Your argument was exactly the same as mine before my edit. We both used counterexamples.

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But your counterexample wasn't an exception to my argument and mine was an exception to yours. Savvy? The difference is not in the example but in the statement the example is responding too.

No, you stated that Planned Parenthood was "vital to women's health." Any woman who has not needed it is a valid counterexample to that. You later clarified that you meant some women, but that is not what you originally stated. So, once again, the logic was identical.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Your argument was exactly the same as mine before my edit. We both used counterexamples.

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I can't believe I have to explain this, but here goes:

If you say "There are no blue cars" and I say "Here's a blue Toyota" it would be a valid counterexample.
If I say "There are some green cars" and you say "Here's a blue Toyota" it's not a valid counteraxample.

It's not the formulation of the counterexample that is wrong, it's how it's applied to the initial argument. Savvy?

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

No, you stated that Planned Parenthood was "vital to women's health." Any woman who has not needed it is a valid counterexample to that.

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If you really think that "vital to women's health" means that I believe no women can survive without it, then yes, it would be a valid argument. Do you really believe that was what I was trying to say?

That is literally what that means. I'm not going to guess at what you meant. Maybe you should try saying it.

edit: Maybe I need to add some bullshit like "I can't believe I have to explain this, but here goes" or "savvy" to ensure I'm being a big enough asshole to uphold my end of this bargain.

edit2: This is exactly the semantics bullshit that was coming in the digital distribution thread by the way. It was only a matter of time before you started redefining shit like you just did.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

That is literally what that means.

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Now you're the one picking a semantic argument.

I'm sure you can appreciate how "women's health" is a bit broader than "the ability of each and every woman to live". It refers to the standard of health that women presently enjoy in this country.

It's the same way as if I said something was "vital to the economy" it wouldn't mean that no economy could exist without it, just that the the economic standard we have couldn't be maintained without it.

You can't sit here and argue with me that you think I was stating that all women would be dead without Planned Parenthood. You have at least a bit more sense than that.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Now you're the one picking a semantic argument.

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I can't. I don't know what that means. You just informed me of that in the other thread.

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You can't sit here and argue with me that you think I was stating that all women would be dead without Planned Parenthood.

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You were overstating its importance. That was my entire point. I don't think you believe that all women would be dead without it, but the way you stated its importance was over the top, probably for effect.

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You have at least a bit more sense than that.

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I've had enough of this nonsense. Every single one of your replies has a thinly veiled personal attack in it. I have better shit to do than take that while trying to have a discussion on the damn internet.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

For the record, my mother has had cancer twice and beaten it both times without the help of this "vital" organization.

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And one of the times she had cancer it just magically cured itself 9 months later.

*exists stage left*

I wouldn't say it cured itself, it just exited the body and infested www.the-nextlevel.com some twenty years later...

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I've had enough of this nonsense. Every single one of your replies has a thinly veiled personal attack in it.

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*pokes head back in for a moment in light of edit*

Honestly, dude, I'm not saying that to be condescending or sarcastic. I mean literally I know that you aren't a dumb guy, but you get locked into these arguments where you defend yourself as if you are a helpless computer unable to process things like context or meaning. I know that isn't the case, and it just seems like some kind of ruse to get into a ridiculous semantic discussion rather than debate the issue itself. I don't know why you do that.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

It's true, Yoshi knows three women.

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In all the time I've spent lurking here, I've never understood why you continue to have these sociopolitical debates with him. I understand disagreeing and even being outraged by the cartoon Republican stances he takes, but trying to convince him he's wrong is like trying to convince a Christian there's no god. You have to turn a blind eye to reality to actually believe all poor people are lazy freeloaders, or all women go to PP so they can use abortion as birth control out of sheer irresponsibility on the public's dime. If you're not speaking his language (his precious tax dollars), and/or the issue doesn't affect him directly, he does not care. It's exhausting just to watch you try and get through to him, so I can only imagine what it must be like for you. I actually like Yoshi a lot when he's talking about games, but when it comes to politics I just think to myself, "huh, these kinds of people actually exist" and move on, nominal blood pressure intact.

It would be interesting to actually hear from TNL's female contingent on the matter. It amuses me that a thread about a breast cancer awareness group and Planned Parenthood is, so far, a total sausage party.

Frog, all I can say to that is that I feel exactly the same way. Every damn time we manage to go from grandiose discussions on big ideas to whether a dolphin is a whale. Do you remember that classic?

I'm just going to call for a truce here on this one and hope we do better next time.

Thanks to No One for putting more words in my mouth.

Au Revoir.

...I can't believe I just intentionally used French. Fuck...

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Originally Posted by No One

In all the time I've spent lurking here, I've never understood why you continue to have these sociopolitical debates with him.

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It's not like I really go into a thread with that intention, but we both post way too much and consistently line up on the opposite sides of these issues.

PS: Nobody believes you're really a lurker that just started posting. Just saying.

ITT: a bunch of dudes arguing over an organization focused on women's health.

Nobody wants to see a healthy vagina more than a bunch of videogaming nerds.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Frog, all I can say to that is that I feel exactly the same way. Every damn time we manage to go from grandiose discussions on big ideas to whether a dolphin is a whale. Do you remember that classic?

I'm just going to call for a truce here on this one and hope we do better next time.

Thanks to No One for putting more words in my mouth.

Au Revoir.

...I can't believe I just intentionally used French. Fuck...

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It figures you'd make a completely reasonable post right after I said that. I wouldn't be so inclined to make such broad generalizations about you if you didn't consistently do the same about people you don't even attempt to empathize with. That being said, two wrongs don't make a right and I apologize if I offended. You're a frustrating dude to "listen" to, in that I find you a totally cool person until these topics come up, and then I wonder how you can actually believe the things you say. But then, I imagine the inverse is probably true for you.

Don't worry about your usage of French. I won't tell a soul.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

PS: Nobody believes you're really a lurker that just started posting. Just saying.

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Ha! It pleases me that I understand this place enough that people would think that, then. Christ, I hope nobody thinks I'm gozen or marwan or something.

It's OK, it wasn't French. It was Freedom Words.

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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

It's OK, it wasn't French. It was Freedom Words.

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touché

FUCK!

:lol::lol::lol:

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

*exists stage left*

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You tryin' to rub it in the face of all them aborted fetuses?