The loudness war attacks your eyes: Orange and Teal

I know I've gone on about the loudness war in audio. If you don't know, Google it.

Anyway, nobody listened.

Because of that, now the same sort of thing is auto-applied to the visuals in movies. Warning: once you see it, you can't unsee it. Orange and teal.

Every move has orange and teal digitally added in post production. Every. Movie. Genre does not matter. Tone does not matter. If the color used to be vaguely flesh-ish, it gets turned orange. Bad spray tans all around. If the color used to be pretty much anything else, it becomes teal. White especially simply does not exist in movies anymore. It is way too easy to turn white into light teal.

And just like the audio loudness war, this is being retroactively applied to old movies. Careful buying that new Blu Ray of Aliens. You get a mess of Teal and Orange.

Yes, this is a bit of an old thing. I bring it up now because I just watched The Other Guys last night and could barely make it through the movie due to the teal and orange pulling me out of every scene. That, and I've never seen it discussed here. So...discuss.

And this time don't give a shrug and a "meh" like the world collectively did when audio was ruined.

I listened, Cheebs!

http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/20...ease-stop.html

Doc knows what's up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4x4rXsCQTU

I color grade all the time and try to avoid it like lightning. But I think my next movie will be called Orange & Teal and just rape the fuck out of it.

Or, have NO instance of the colors Orange and Teal.

Or, make it in black and white except for that which is Orange and Teal.

This could work. Let's collaborate!

The villian could be like Hulk and everything turns Orange & Teal when he rages! Egad! XD

Gross, but not surprising.
A lot of TVs seem to have special modes that 'enhance' the image by making colours sickeningly over-saturated.
It's the kind of thing that impresses the shit out of morons.

I've noticed something off in modern movies, but couldn't place my finger on why shit looked weird.
Thanks for opening my eyes.
Fuck you for opening my eyes.

Who would have thought making fake seasons/weather in a southern comedy would cause all this bullshit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

The villian could be like Hulk and everything turns Orange & Teal when he rages! Egad! XD

---

He will be called The Eyesore.

Rough artist's rendering:

I wonder why they chose these colors.

visit doc's link in the third post.

because people would look weird in magenta and green foilage.

Hollywood gonna hollywood.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

But I think my next movie will be called Orange & Teal and just rape the fuck out of it.

---

Do this. And PLEASE let me mix the audio. I'll make it sound like Guitar Wolf. We will win Sundance.

SSJN's avatar uses this.

Her legs certainly pop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Josh

Do this. And PLEASE let me mix the audio. I'll make it sound like Guitar Wolf. We will win Sundance.

---

I already bought a ticket. I'm dressing up as orange for the midnight showing.

If Josh & punk rock is in this has to be a gang flick: Orange vs Teal! We need an artist to construct logos for the Mr. Orange & Dr Teal sodas everyone will drink.

One of the Oranges will fall in love with a girl from the Teals! It can be a musical like Little shop of Horrors with greaser gangs!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

One of the Oranges will fall in love with a girl from the Teals! It can be a musical like Westside Story with greaser gangs!

---

fixed.

Shut up! I'm trying to get Josh stoked!!

SUDDENLY SEYMOUR.
IS ALL UP IN THIS BITCH.

TELL ME THIS FEELING LASTS TIL FOREVER!
TELL ME THE BAD FEELINGS ARE ALL WASHED AWAY!

I used to try to have my settings all perfect on my TVs in the house but I just gave up because nothing ever looked right anymore. Also, the newest TV I bought came with the brightness jacked all the way up, I guess the brighter it is the better it looks.

Cool story bro

It's everywhere.

Tears in rain.

I would REALLY like the sranty eyes in poster format.

this is how I feel:

Razor, somehow always angrier or more apathetic than everyone else, every second of every day.

Orange and teal combos are a bit tiresome now. The I've Been Rolling In Nacho Cheese Sauce look needs to go.
One more thing I'm tired of is "film look" post processing on a shitload of TV shows. Must everyone use it? When used on a live broadcast event, it's even worse- looking simply artificial.



The strobe effect on quick pans or fast action scenes when shot at 24p is just gross. Some people like this blur effect, but I see it as a limitation of 24p which most analog films are shot at. To me it's juddery. It seems 24p has been stuck with to conserve expensive film. Jim Cameron said the future of cinema is higher frame rates; hopefully he's right. With digital cinematography the "conserve" excuse is worth jack now. It's time for 24p to retire and move over for 48p- hopefully Peter Jackson's The Hobbit gets this ball rolling.

I think that 24 fps is part of what makes film look like film. When you watch video you know that it's video vs. film, filter or not... it's the same reason that watching something at anything other than 60hz looks awful unless it's video. Maybe 48 fps will be a bit better since it's a multiple of 24 instead of 30? I'm willing to give it a shot I guess, but I don't know, it just seems weird to me. Speaking of a "film look" I am also not a fan of all the DNR (Digital Noise Reduction) because people see film grain as a "problem." At Best Buy trying to sell their in home setting setup service they showed a movie with and without their "help" and the only difference was that they made Raging Bull look less grainy.

I think 24 fps looks more dreamy due to the blur and so great for storytelling. Same witch color grading. But as you said, doc, reporting and anything "real" should be as high a fps as you can get and no color tweaking beyond white balance and brightness/contrast to match the joining shots.

Here's a good article on fps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

I think 24 fps looks more dreamy due to the blur and so great for storytelling. Same witch color grading. But as you said, doc, reporting and anything "real" should be as high a fps as you can get and no color tweaking beyond white balance and brightness/contrast to match the joining shots.

Here's a good article on fps.

---

This is why I do not own a 120hz (or higher) TV because I mostly watch movies on them... now down the road I definitely want one for gaming and live events, but I watch so few of those and don't game anywhere near as much as I'd like so it isn't as big of a deal.

I plan to read that article as soon as I'm done reading articles for my class tonight!

Watching a 120hz TV with retard-smoothing turned on doesn't have anything to do with any of this. And I'm pretty sure there's something about 120hz dividing into 24fps and 60fps which allows for proper native image viewing over older 60hz tvs which makes your decision to not own one retarded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FirstBlood

Watching a 120hz TV with retard-smoothing turned on doesn't have anything to do with any of this. And I'm pretty sure there's something about 120hz dividing into 24fps and 60fps which allows for proper native image viewing over older 60hz tvs which makes your decision to not own one retarded.

---

Sure it does... watching something that's 24 fps @ 120hz totally makes it look "off." It looks like some BBC production that was shot on video but put through a film filter to make it look "better." Yes, there are options to turn it off, but as I said, since I mostly watch movies I'm ok with not having it for games in the meantime... can't afford to upgrade at the moment so I'm in no rush. I'm already on my 3rd HDTV since 2005, I don't need to upgrade anytime soon. I went from 1080i/DVI to 1080p/HDMI (both DLP) to an LCD... I'm waiting for LED to come down a bit or for me to have a bit more saved up, whichever comes first. Originally I was thinking of going 3D, but I'm seeing this as not really worth it anymore.

is there such thing as 72hz? or 144hz? Film is actually ran at 72 fps; it shows the film frame then a black frame 3 times to mask the frame changes. That's what you're noticing off at 120hz.

You would notice that "difference" at 60hz too.

Everything TobalRox is describing is the horrible auto-motion effect that is different on every brand of TV because it's a custom post-processing effect that blends the frames of a movie or TV signal so that they look like they're running at twice the framerate. Running a normal picture through a 120hz TV without the auto motion effect turned on is supposed to produce a more accurate image for film because it's able to display the native frames of the film. And the auto motion effect is shit for games because it usually leaves horrible artifacts on the screen.

And I don't think the extra black frames come into play when we're talking about differences in displaying a movie digitally.

What I was trying to get at is the light of a 35 mm film projector flashes 72 times a second (a multiple of the frame rate), where a television emits lights at either 60 or 120 times a second which is off from 24 fps.


EDIT: I'm not super technical about this stuff, so someone else may be a better source.

I'm not either, I just thought it was retarded that TobalRox specifically said that he doesn't want a 120hz TV because he only watched movies when I'm pretty sure that most sources say that the refresh rate itself is ideal for movies. The auto-motion bullshit that he thinks 120hz means doesn't matter in any way.

29.97 fps

Where is your god now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mzo

It's everywhere.

---

I'm going to go look for some Gadget porn now, thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FirstBlood

I'm not either, I just thought it was retarded that TobalRox specifically said that he doesn't want a 120hz TV because he only watched movies when I'm pretty sure that most sources say that the refresh rate itself is ideal for movies. The auto-motion bullshit that he thinks 120hz means doesn't matter in any way.

---

EVeryone I know with a 120hz TV must have that turned on then so I figured that's what made something 120hz. Not retarded, just misinformed since that was literally all my experience with it, which is everyone I know who bought a TV within the last few years. I never liked the way it looked so I stayed away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

I think 24 fps looks more dreamy due to the blur and so great for storytelling. Same witch color grading. But as you said, doc, reporting and anything "real" should be as high a fps as you can get and no color tweaking beyond white balance and brightness/contrast to match the joining shots.

Here's a good article on fps.

---

You might know this doc.

Do you know why british and american tv shows look different? Both their news and shows have a different look. It can't all be the overcast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fe 26

You might know this doc.

Do you know why british and american tv shows look different? Both their news and shows have a different look. It can't all be the overcast.

---

In the HD era it isn't so much an issue, but I know before there was the PAL to NTSC conversion. Different frame rate there too... some movies on a PAL DVD would appear shorter because they "Got through it quicker"

I have to wonder if they have different filming and processing techniques. A lot of shit would come off as less vivid,

Like these are both from 1974

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TobalRox

Different frame rate

---

It is this. Also british shows are shot primarily on video, while whilst American ones were shot on film. I am, for whatever reason, assuming we are discussing tv shows from the 1980's. Lighting is also a little bit less intense in England, presumably because of a lower budget for most things. American soap operas (of the 80's) managed to look as lo-fi as their British contempories because (I think) they shot on video. That last sentence is 100% straight out of my asshole.

Fun fact: I used to have a job copying commercials to betamax tapes for American television. I, you know, I know things.

British productions are colour corrected for PAL, so they look washed out on NTSC displays.

I'm pretty sure that Dr. Who was shot on video, even way back when. Little House was shot on film.

My father in law is the head of media at the local community college and I used to do stuff with the Telecourse tapes while I was working there. I should ask him about this stuff, see what he thinks/feels about it being as he's been doing it as long as I've been alive.

So I guess 10 minutes of The Hobbit were shown and as I predicted, it looked like crap. 48 frames per second makes it look "too good." Granted, this could be internet overblowing, but I can totally see it happening as they compared it to the same thing I compared it to (those stupid best buy display settings on 120hz tvs). They claim everything looks like sets and not a movie and it totally takes you out of it.

I guess you'll have to stick with the 24Hz version.

I'll just put this here so as to not poop on the fun in the GIJoe thread, but if you want to see exactly what it looks like when you slather digital orange and teal over everything:

HOLY SHIT!

WHO LOOKS AT THIS SHIT AND THINKS IT LOOKS GOOD?
Between shakey cam, 1000 jump cuts per second, and this; hoolywood action films are dead to me.

An article to contrast all of the outrage.

I think it's kind of weird, especially how it's so hilariously prominent in all of the posters but come on. These movies are skin tones, explosions and sun set against various dominantly blue backgrounds, be they sky, water, metal or just darkness. It's not that insane that when you punch up the colors because it's big budget hollywood and that's what you do, this is the outcome.

No shit. That's why I said it was the loudness war for your eyes. Based on solid theory yet totally misused. Unnatural. No range. No subtlety. No variety. No allowance for genre.

Any reason why Hot Tub Time Machine looks exactly like GI Joe? Any at all?

It's a problem because, just like in music, it's applied so thick that it pulls you out. You litterally notice the color instead of the scene. And just like music there is no statement being made, no reason for the practice, and no escaping it. Chick flick to stomping robots, everybody gets it. It made no damn sense when Tom Petty was run through the same sausage factory as Dragon Force. Now it makes no sense that a still frame from Bed and Breakfast could very well come from Transformers.

We took it in the ass with music. Now we're taking it the ass with movies. Start giving a shit or God knows what our novels will read like or what our food will taste like.

It's really not that big of a deal. Big dumb movies doing big dumb mass market stuff, business as usual.

Only it is not just the big dumb movies.

http://shadoka.files.wordpress.com/2...etective-8.jpg

Everyone has Hulk Hogan's skin tone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jyoung

http://shadoka.files.wordpress.com/2...etective-8.jpg

---

You can't take one frame out of context and use it as an example that orange and teal has always been here. He's hangin' with the Miami Dolphins fer Christ's sake. What is being done now could not be done without computers. They have to mask areas out to apply different color to different areas of the screen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Josh

Hulk Hogan's skin tone.

---

Pepperidge Farm smoked sausage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cheebs

We took it in the ass with music. Now we're taking it the ass with movies. Start giving a shit or God knows what our novels will read like or what our food will taste like.

---

Explain what we can do to not take it in the ass. Should I write my local congressperson?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cheebs

You can't take one frame out of context and use it as an example that orange and teal has always been here. He's hangin' with the Miami Dolphins fer Christ's sake. What is being done now could not be done without computers. They have to mask areas out to apply different color to different areas of the screen.

---

Yeah I mean Cobra's Blue color was not their original color.

Or Tron Legacy ... I mean jesus remember when the original Tron was all Brown and Green.

I hate when one of you shits takes the piss out of someone and then the rest of the C team has to pile in. Have an original opinion for once.

OMG, I CAN BE CONDESCENDING!?! I NEED TO GET IN ON THAT.

Tron was blue and red. It also had green and purple all up in that bitch. The sequel changed the blue to teal and the red to orange.

As for Cobra, I'm not talking about wardrobe colors. Look at that footage. There are clearly masks drawn around foreground elements coloring them orange while the background gets pushed to teal. Anything that is not the face of the person talking is pure teal haze.

I like the old guys and their blue hair

I like how all the logos in the GI Joe trailer have been colorized, as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cheebs

Start giving a shit or God knows what our novels will read like or what our food will taste like.

---

MC Donalds. 1955. Refined salt and sugar.

He's also apparently never seen a bookstore in an airport.

Mechdeus's avatar is also orange/teal.

It means I can't be trusted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mzo

Explain what we can do to not take it in the ass. Should I write my local congressperson?

---

Vote with your dollars. Like EVERYTHING else.

Also... this is the one case where Cheebs gets it and everyone else is being stupid.

I get it when there's a artificially dark blue scene and the character's face pops bright orange and looks ridiculous, usually in the big stupid action movies that are already shit.

But every other example is just explosions set against the sky or water, or tan skin against sky or water and I don't care. I mean the guy claims this whole idea started at O' Brother Where Art Thou which is ridiculous.

This thread sucks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FirstBlood

I get it when there's a artificially dark blue scene and the character's face pops bright orange and looks ridiculous, usually in the big stupid action movies that are already shit.

But every other example is just explosions set against the sky or water, or tan skin against sky or water and I don't care.

---

I don't think you're seeing it. It looks like this:

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/att...1&d=1335454087

and it is everywhere.

I was watching 30 Rock on comedy channel yesterday. I saw three movie trailers. "Safe", "The Raven", and...now I can't remember the third. But it was a chicky flick looking thing.
They all were orange and teal.

When all is said and done, then something else will do something different and everyone will copy that, and then something different will happen, etc. It's nothing new that there is no creativity... Also, as for things not looking "natural" it's a movie, it's not supposed to look real. I used to get all up in arms about the look of movies too (I remember the uproar when the "blue" was removed from the original Halloween so it looked more "real.") but it's just not worth it anyway. We can vote with our dollars, yes... but there are millions of others in the masses don't know or don't give a shit and they will ALWAYS outnumber those that care about cinema as art. Hate to be defeatist, but I'm done getting worked up over shit there's nothing I can do. I didn't buy Halloween, I didn't buy Star Wars, I didn't buy lots of things... the fuckers still sold like crazy and will still be re-released a bunch of times (those two examples went onto Blu-Ray with even more changes).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TobalRox

We can vote with our dollars, yes... but there are millions of others in the masses don't know or don't give a shit and they will ALWAYS outnumber those that care about cinema as art. Hate to be defeatist, but I'm done getting worked up over shit there's nothing I can do.

---

Congratulations. Now you're part of that unwashed mass of Philistines. Just because you can't change the world doesn't mean you have to spread your Sour Patch Kid and take it.

An extreme example, to be sure. But you know what I mean, yeah?

Honestly. Who gives a shit.

With audio it's affecting the only way you can listen to music and it's a big deal. With video, it's a stylistic choice that in no way diminishes the quality of the screenplay or performances. The story is still there is just looks blue-er. No one gives a shit when David Fincher put shitty filters all over his movies, people thought it was cool and artsy because they respected him as a director. But now that every movie is doing something similar it's a "war".

People who don't hear music the same way you and I do could say the same thing about damaged audio. "It's just louder, who gives a shit?"

And good producers and good directors will still refute both practices. I'm not losing any sleep over Hot Tub Time Machine looking teal and orange.

Well, yeah. I'm just kind of arguing the point, not the practice.

I've a bit of time to kill. <3

I'm with dave. Transformers is still shit no matter what color. A brilliant film that happens to be hampered by a poor post processing choice will still be brilliant.

With audio it's much more binary. It's either shitty sounding or it's not.

What about shit cg? Same kind of thing? The Mist was an awesome movie with one of the most crushingly fucked up endings I've ever seen.
I will never ever watch it again because the cg kills the suspension of disbelief. Don't you think that Hulk Hogan skin could do that too? The crazy colors are just like digital clipping on the cymbals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dave is ok

Honestly. Who gives a shit.

With audio it's affecting the only way you can listen to music and it's a big deal. With video, it's a stylistic choice that in no way diminishes the quality of the screenplay or performances. The story is still there is just looks blue-er. No one gives a shit when David Fincher put shitty filters all over his movies, people thought it was cool and artsy because they respected him as a director. But now that every movie is doing something similar it's a "war".

---

This is kind of what I was getting at with my post. Halloween was all "blue" for artistic reasons... people thought it was great, and it was copied by a bunch of other movies. It was later removed because people wanted to "see the movie" because that was the hot thing at the time. Shit changes all the time. I understand where all this is coming from because I was a part of it before... I spent thousands making sure I only got widescreen DVDs, I made sure I got unrated instead of censored versions of movies, etc. I spent years trying to help people realize what would make things "better" but in the end they just didn't care so I gave up. Now if a movie now wants to use that look, fine, that is their choice, i can't stop them, it's the thing to do now... if they want to go back and change an older movie as you said before, then that's a problem that I won't support. Will I bitch to people about it though? Nope.

I don't know man, Sometimes bitching can do good. I've been able to explain damaged audio to a good number of people, and now they don't support those labels/artists/mastering engineers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chux

I'm with dave. Transformers is still shit no matter what color. A brilliant film that happens to be hampered by a poor post processing choice will still be brilliant.

---

Eh. Not sure I agree with that. A movie is a complete process and the sum of all it's parts. If it looks as processed as an Applebee's meal it will affect how I feel.

O Brother where art thou wasn't some terrible looking shit. These same techniques can be used to make a movie look better, they just choose not to do it.

It doesn't surprise me that stupid garish Transformers is a vanguard in this movement. But people not named Michael Bay should know better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Diff-chan

Eh. Not sure I agree with that. A movie is a complete process and the sum of all it's parts. If it looks as processed as an Applebee's meal it will affect how I feel.

O Brother where art thou wasn't some terrible looking shit. These same techniques can be used to make a movie look better, they just choose not to do it.

It doesn't surprise me that stupid garish Transformers is a vanguard in this movement. But people not named Michael Bay should know better.

---

Coen Brothers = Good movie. Michael Bay = Bad movie.

Same place we were before this trend.

This thread isn't just about Michael Bay. O Brother was cited as the first movie to digitally color, not the first movie to orange and teal everything.

I wonder if HDTVs aren't driving this in part. People put their TVs in torch mode and want to see neon shit pop off the screen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Diff-chan

These same techniques can be used to make a movie look better, they just choose not to do it.

---

This is the funniest thing about digital. Digital audio can be tweaked to sound like anything and digital video can be tweaked to look like anything. There is no limit at all. Nothing in the way of creating anything you want.

Analog had all sorts of limitations.

In practice, the unlimited flexibility of digital translates to exactly zero flexibility for the final product where the limitations of analog allow for all sorts of variety in the finished product.

Nope. I can't change this movie to look exactly like the accepted universal template. Only so much I can do with chemicals. Sorry. So the director is free to make the movie look like anything he is able to achieve. Nope. I can't put every instrument exactly on the grid and sample replace, tune, and comp everything one note at a time out of the 80 takes we made. Only do much I can do with tape. Sorry. So every band can sound somewhat like themselves.

Digital there are no excuses. It damn well CAN look and sound exactly like the universal approved template. So it does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dave is ok

Coen Brothers = Good movie. Michael Bay = Bad movie.

Same place we were before this trend.

---

It's. Not. Just. The. Trash.

Just like music, there is no escape. Look. Coen Brothers in 2010:

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/att...1&d=1335468044

Giving The Dude a teal beard really adds to the artistry, right? Totally not a knee-jerk slather on this color decision, right? Makes all the sense in the world that it is colored exactly the same as the Will Ferrel comedy shown above.

Attachment 65529

Attachment 65530

Just sayin'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chux

A brilliant film that happens to be hampered by a poor post processing choice will still be brilliant.

---

Where is the line? Because there certainly is a line. Saving Private Ryan would without a doubt be less brilliant if the uniforms were all made pink in post production.

For me, the line is crossed when every room in the world is decorated teal and orange people walk around with teal hair. It's silly. It's actually silly enough to detract.

Where is your line?

The Life Aquatic used both orange and teal in a brilliant way. So, it can be used for good. Granted, that's like one out of a metric shit-ton...