Now I'm confused. Those are the people who call everything with a jump button a platformer.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
edit: Or everything 2D with a jump button, which is even more arbitrary and illogical.
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Now I'm confused. Those are the people who call everything with a jump button a platformer.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
edit: Or everything 2D with a jump button, which is even more arbitrary and illogical.
LoS talk only, please. There is plenty to be discussed without venturing off topic.
Are you guys going to press X fifty times to kill the big, brown, clumsily animated heaps of polygons in the sequel or are you going to press Y fifty times? I liked X in the original, but I'm something of anX man you could say heh heh. But I'm open to making the switch, you know?
I started to make the smartass post that the controller I'm going to use doesn't have a "Y" button, but then I remembered I use a 360 controller with my PC. :(
edit: To be more serious but yet still on topic, I can actually envision a scenario by which the dreadful reviews could match my experience, even if it's a competent game. I liked LoS but certainly not anywhere near as much as any version of the original or III or X. This sequel sounds as though it could be the Metroidvania take on LoS. If I take my relative enjoyment of Metroidvania compared to the real entries and then scale it for the LoS downgrade, it wouldn't be a pretty score. And that again assumes it's completely competent.
You say this like Mercury Steam was actually trying to do anything like the old games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
They were making a God of War with a CV skin. That's it.
I'm 10 minutes in and Dracula has already recited his "What is a man, but a miserable pile of secrets" line and some Paladin yelled "Die monster, you don't belong in this world!".
Best. Game. Ever.
Titan Fights are back. Great.
At the end of the prologue they recap Mirror of Fate for those not trying to sit through it.
How far in are you? Thumbs up or thumbs down so far? I'm going to have to make a decision on this one and Thief tomorrow.
Ditto.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Order Steam keys from GMG by tomorrow and Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 is $40.50 and Thief: Master Thief Edition is $35.77. Better make that decision fast!Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
That's exactly why I have to make the decision tomorrow. :D
If I pass, it'll be a while before they are cheaper than that.
Thief is cheaper and doesn't have titan fights, but I'm biased anyway.
Thief is also said to have mindnumbingly stupid AI, at least from streams I've watched and the consensus on GAF. If you care for the story of LoS at all I'd say for this. Without spoiling much, and this should be known by now if you're in the LoS2 thread. The prologue happens sometime after Gabriel turns and creates Castlevania. It fades out as Alucard reaches him in the past (Again, all from MoF). You wake up in your coffin just as Zobek meets you at the end of LoS, you brush him off and are now in the modern world. Zobek is your boss(for now?) and you have a common enemy in Satan, Satan's acolytes have been gathering power in the current time and are about to strike, but have no idea where Dracula is, as he was dead/asleep for centuries. Satan is coming, and Zobek is like BRO WE GOTTA DO THIS. My first "Mission" is at some big pharma group that is headed up by one of the 12 acolytes. Zobek ports me there and Hobo Dracula goes to work. This century long slumber is also the explanation for the Samus Aran losing of powers bit. As I am far too weak to assault these first enemies I have encountered, I must use stealth. This is achieved in a few ways, turning into a mouse, and misdirection with a bat swarm. I saw a Vision of Trevor and then tripped balls back into the past timeline, now I'm jumping around Castlevania and he's wondering if it's real or not.
The stealth while it may SOUND forced, isn't horrible, and I wasn't bothered by it. I think more people will be bothered by the modern setting, but I dig the story so I say bring it on.
Interesting. Thanks for the early impressions Chux.
It's not necessarily an either or. If they're both worthy, I'll get them both. I read that either Edge or Eurogamer (can't remember which) will have its Thief review up tomorrow, so that will help.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
Sounds like neither of them are worth a damn.
Chux, how did you like this after playing it all day?
I was away from the console most of yesterday, lol. I've fought 3 bosses, only one was a titan so that's good. I want to see how this story ends, it's a GoW clone with Castlevania clothes. There is even an option to disable QTE's if you just want to not bother with them at all.
I'd recommend it to fans of the series.
Nice. Thanks.
That's... actually pretty cool. Just not having them would be even better of course, but still, good on 'em.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chux
I haven't tried it yet, I wonder if it takes away the QTE's for draining your enemies, or for jumps where you will fall.
Great minds and all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
First day impression is always full of enthusiasm, then a month later everyone will say it is worse than the first.
I honestly can't wrap my head around these scores. I've never seen a game that interested me at all panned this hard.
Edge: 4/10
Eurogamer: 5/10
The one outstanding question I have is how much of a difference reviewing the right version would have had (both reviewed the PS3 version), as Digital Foundry's Face-Off reports quite a technical difference:
Even if it were two whole points though, 6s and 7s are not compelling for $60 MSRP PC games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Foundry
I'm both happy that I passed and furious that I had to.
Yeah, I'm playing the 360 version and it's not the prettiest thing in the world.
Fool and his money, etc.
So, Chux, can you confirm for me that this is a Metroidvania with GoW combat? If that's what it is, with last gen ugly mixed in, I can understand the scores.
The review at Joystiq enjoyed the game. That's about the only one.
Disappointed at the scores. I'm sure I'll like LoS2 (some recent games I've had a good time with were killed by reviewers) but I'll wait until it hits a sub $30 price which probably won't take too long. Steam summer sale it is.
Sounds like they were too focused on that story that they thought really needed to be told and forgot about the game.
That's an interesting and desperate way to scramble and find a scapegoat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
So far, yeah. The wolf medalion allows me to go from "Real, Current World" to "Memories of the Castle World". I'm still not positive that the old world isn't real unless Dracula is battling his memories to "remember" his powers in the real world. That's a lot of quotes. There are places in both areas that I can't access until I have different skills. I know it's semantics but I think it's more GOW with Metroidvania exploration dipped in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
He's not far off the mark, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
I'm more trying to figure out if I would think it's as bad as the reviews, and that combination is about the only way I can come up with that I would, assuming the game isn't just flat out broken or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chux
They seem pretty clear about what the problems are in both reviews linked, none of which are issues about exploration or having multiple playstyles. While there are a lot of complaints about the stealth section they are not about the presence of stealth (in fact, they state its inclusion initially makes sense), but are about the length to which it's used, the highly-linear focus with single solution answers, and displaying alternate routes that aren't real.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
It might be a 3D Metroidvania with GOW combat, but such things also have nothing to do with those reviewers found to be wrong with the game. It's just digging for blame shifting.
I got to the point where you lose your powers. Everything is so ugly and not in a "lol 360" way. Gabriel's face and hair are HORRENDOUS especially as far as main characters go.
I'm not very far but that's the vibe I'm getting.Quote:
Sounds like they were too focused on that story that they thought really needed to be told and forgot about the game.
Turns out the PC version has a special HD texture pack.
That makes perfect fucking sense, damnit. It's not like they haven't created assets for the previous gen before.
I remembered the last game that was like this in terms of the loved IP but the surprisingly awful review scores: Aliens: Colonial Marines. I still haven't caved on that one, despite almost buying it the day before it went live.
not surprising, it is crap
Colonial Marines is shitty but not awful. Try it for $15 or under.
I'm really bummed they fucked this game up. The demo was cool and I thought it looked good too.
Nope, CM is awful. At least pre-patch. The AI is 1990s bad-Build-engine-game-level garbage
I might give it another go to see if anything is different.
Then buy it. The game is more of that, and if you're alright with how it looked and played you won't be surprised.Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilMog
I bought it when it was $1 or whatever on Amazon. Still haven't installed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I was a little worried when I kept hearing about stealth segments, but in 5 hours of playing I've only come across 2 of them. The first one was over in 10 seconds and the second one went on for maybe a minute.
This game looks pretty damn good on my PC and runs at a solid 60. If you're going to play this game PC is the obvious choice.
I had to play this game so I found it to rent and after playing about halfway through it I'm glad renting was my choice. After the demo opening, nothing really happens for hours. The modern day setting sucks just as much as I thought it would after finishing the first game. The level design is so boring and uninteresting compared to the first game. I just wanted to play to watch the story and I can't slog through anymore. I gave up and you tubed the storyline. Holy shit, the ending is lame! Glad I stopped wasting my time.
Maybe Bayonetta will get a whip in the sequel, and I can pretend that is a Castlevania game. :cry:
She had one in the first game.
Nice. I know I never used that. I guess it's time to break that back out.
So apparently this game had development issues:
Having split critics, a member of Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 developer MercurySteam has stepped forward to lift the lid on the game's troubled development, pointing the finger at Studio Director Enric Alvarez who according to the source is allegedly "mean", has "serious problems" and is at the centre of the studio's "archaic" structure.
The anonymous MercurySteam employee revealed that he experienced "hell" during the making of Lords of Shadow 2, explaining that Hideo Kojima had little to do with the first game and even less to do with the sequel and its spin-off, Mirror of Fate.
"The vast majority of this team is aware that the game we’ve done is a real piece of shit that has nothing to do with the first one’s quality and production values," he said. "Nobody is surprised by the low reviews we’ve got."
The MercurySteam dev goes on to attribute blame to Alvarez, claiming that the studio's QA department is "treated like cattle, with shameful wages and almost everyday bullying" and the game's art direction is "erratic and beheaded." It's alleged that this is down to the studio director's "distrust" of his workers.
"If there’s someone to blame here, that’s Enric Álvarez. He is the person who has led a broken development based on his personal criteria, completely overlooking programmers, designers and artists," the anonymous employee added. "Despite his nice look to the press, often considered as some sort of creative ‘visionary’ in the looks of David Cage and Molyneux, this guy has serious problems. He is a mean and naughty guy, and since the 'success Lords of Shadows 1' his ego has grown to the point of not even daring to say 'hello' when you meet him in the hallway.
"Absolutely every design idea has to be monitored, taken away and mutilated by Enric Álvarez. Several game designers have grown tired of this and have abandoned the studio."
Furthermore, the source revealed that 35 layoffs were made at MercurySteam once work on Lords of Shadow 2 had concluded, with more staff cuts possible. "Expectations for our future are quite bad... with a publisher like Konami really upset after the mediocre game we've made," the source stated.
"And finally, because not everything is bad in here, I wanted to say that the real team behind this company is an incredible bunch of people. If all those guys who are not allowed to be promoted due to our Jurassic studio leads had the chance to set the course of the company, our future would be so bright," the dev concluded.
"There’s just so much passion and talent here, more than I’ve ever seen anywhere else, but it’s completely held back. I really hope that those who read this understand what we’ve lived here. Someone has to say this so it is not lost in time after the game’s launch."
[NeoGAF via VG247]
lolQuote:
who according to the source is allegedly "mean"
But yeah, every game has development issues. I was wondering when the blame articles would start.
I can't wait for Castlevania to be in the hands of another developer, hopefully one that make a great Castlevania game.
It's almost been 20 years.
Time to move on. Enjoy the greats from yesteryear and play Dark Souls for your modern punishing 3D gothic action game. People have made Belmont builds, go live it up.
I've nearly wrapped my head around that, but I still don't like it.
So I ended up finishing the game anyways. The second half is a little better if anyone wants to slog through it. I just played on easy so I didn't see any QT bullshit. The game does look really nice at least. The ending is so bad it's almost worth playing through to see. You tube that shit. It totally reminds me of the gay park scene at the end of Matrix Revolution.
I've been playing through this and it's really a bipolar game play experience for me. Whenever the game takes place in the past, and focuses on combat, the game is great. Whenever it's in the present, the game becomes a slog, despite the combat still be pretty good. Once the game hits those stealth segments though, forget it, those sections are complete shit. This is one of the most disappointing sequels I've played in a long time. The first game was good, and it didn't need that many changes to make it great. Unfortunately, Mercury Steam went way overboard on adding different elements to the formula and it just doesn't gel well at all.
Watch out for game freezes too. The damn game froze up on me three times, in the exact same place, during one of the earlier boss fights last night. The fourth time turned out to be the charm, but when your game is already mediocre....game freezes certainly don't help out the experience.
Your post summed up my thoughts exactly. This game ranks right up there with Ninja Gaiden 3 (the newer trilogy)for most disappointing sequels. I only had the game freeze up once though, but it was during the last boss fight!
The fight back has begun:
Quote:
“It’s true that Edge liked the first game but they didn’t enjoy this one as much. I also think that what happened is terribly unfair. One must be blind or stupid to give a 4/10 mark to a game with whis quality. With a 4/10 people think it’s a crappy game, badly done, one that’s broken with gameplay mechanics that don’t work and awful graphics. If I were a reviewer I’d know this, and I don’t think that LoS2 deserves the score of a crappy game.”
lol. Why don't people take videogames as seriously as movies u gais
How mean.
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/att...1&d=1393939966Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
The whole "game should be spotted 7 points because it loads up and your guy does stuff on screen when you press a button" is the worst argument ever.
The guy's right for the wrong reason. The problem isn't that his game was scored to low, it's that most outlets' "average" score is too high. By definition, there can't be twice as many degrees of "worse than average" as there are of "better than average". On a sanely designed 10-point scale*, a 4 would be "slightly worse than average," which by most accounts seems to describe this game.
*Personally I think even this is excessive - all you really need is 5, with no fractions or decimals. 1 = unmitigated garbage, 2 = bad, 3 = mediocre, 4 = good, 5 = instant classic.
In general, I agree, but keep in mind that a large fraction of games don't get reviewed at all and would likely fill in a lot of the sub-6 area that seems vacant in the mainstream reviews.
Edge, according to Metacritic, scores games lower than average 83% of the time and has an average of 64, which sounds about right to me. After all, they don't even touch the really bad stuff.
But really isn't the problem that we are expecting enthusiast sites to be intellectually honest? IGN exists to meddle in fanboy arguments(because it drives hits) and hoover up PR money (because it's money).
That's pretty cool. I never noticed that stuff on Metacritic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
The problem with this guys statement is that Lords of Shadow 2 IS broken, it does have gameplay mechanics that don't work, and it's graphics are awful. A 4 out of 10 is completely fair for this half-assed effort of a game. Personally, I would score it a 6, but a 4 surely isn't unreasonable, considering how unpolished it is in just about every area.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
There's some merit in parts of the argument though - it feels like writers often just roll with how they feel about a game, than drawing from some canonical set of rules or standards on what makes a game of quality. Like it or not, music, movies, painting, theater - all other forms of art/entertainment have some ground rules on how to write thoughtful criticism, some elements used to determine a quality of something.
Not that's to say all criticism in these venues abide by those rules 100% of the time, but at least they're there. So when he cries that there's a difference between having an opinion on something vs. a valid criticism...I can see it. I think he's only bringing it up because he's butthurt that Edge won't fawn over what's (seemingly) a terrible game though.
They often have better critics, but the rules on the critiquing are no different. Most newspaper movie reviewers are just as horrible as whatever major videogame website you're thinking of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero
That's why I said it's not that other reviewers are better, but at least the foundation for (what counts for) good criticism is there. Formal elements of film that are considered to be foundational for making something of a certain quality. A good eye for film can discern good acting, cinematography, direction, lighting, score, etc. and the why/how behind how those things work, how they're of high quality, and how all the elements work together to elevate the entire experience. Formal stuff like that, whether its because those standards were established and writers had followed it, or it's because of good writing that a pattern naturally emerged, I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
While these rules exist in movies and plenty of reviewers ignore it, I don't even think we have that. Or the other way - we just have poor writers who can't clearly elucidate why something is good or bad in a way that shows true critical thought was applied to review process. Either no one wants to establish a canon because that would be seen as too restricting/too pretentious and reviewers would rather be able to review purely on feelings than any sense of structured criticism, or games writers are just bad and don't even consider these things in the first place.
Yet if we're going to say that all criticism is subjective, etc. and there's no right way to do any of it, fine. Then sites like Metacritic shouldn't exist. I'll even swing the other way and say Rotten Tomatoes shouldn't either. Yet I don't think there's a strength in wanting it both ways - to say that criticism is highly subjective and shouldn't be a slave to formal rules, yet we'll take all that information and aggregate it in the most calculated way possible to make sense of it all. If we want to standardize the end result of reviews, then I think we need better reviews to begin with.
As if game reviews haven't had the formal foundation of graphics, controls, sound, gameplay, etc since forever.
Pretty much. It's strictly a case of an interactive medium judged on the reviewer's skill level being written about primarily by people with no formal training in writing and playing ability.
I like Rotten Tomatoes method of aggregating scores better than metacritic. I think the Rotten Tomatoes numbers end up giving a better concept of if if a movie is decent or not, unlike metacritic's method of averaging together random review scores themselves.
One other reason is that everyone has a different scale. No matter what system you use (and there are many more that you can come up with) there will be some outliers
Metacritic doesn't even simply average them. Different sites get different weights, though God knows how they determine them.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
It's been FORTY YEARS and we still don't have an adequate critical vocabulary for games. I'm willing to bet '40s film reviews didn't say things like, "Take one part Dreyer, one part Mizoguchi, one part German expressionism, and put them all on opium to get this year's MotY favorite, Citizen Kane. But is it worth your hard-earned 35 cents? " We're stuck in the Game Pro mode of dumb comparisons involving drugs I've never used and ridiculous compartmentalizations (ACTING: 7/10: Typical theatrical Welles fare.
CINEMATOGRAPHY: 10/10 I'm happy to say the Deep Focus effect is as BAD ASS at its core advertised. Kane's core graphical experience is unrivaled.
MOVIEWATCH : 7/10: At its core, the newsreel segment was confusing. BAD ASS core moviewatch otherwise.
REWATCH VALUE: 6/10 : Once you discover what Rosebud is at its core, there is little reason to revisit Kane's world.
OVER ALL: 9.24 (not an average) Kane is BAD ASS but, at its core, its ass is perhaps not as bad as How Green Was My Valley's core ass).
It bothers me.
Shitty writers gonna write shitty.
VIDEO GAMES
One part VIDEO, one part GAME, then put them both... on crack. *
* only crack with good cracksmoke will do
Ridiculously, the first DLC for this has already been revealed. Apparently, the second DLC will be developed by Climax, which has triggered speculation that they will be handed the IP next.
It's coming out this month?! Wow.
Their website shows credit for the PC port of LoS1 too, so that makes some sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to A Robot Bit Me again."Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
Danggit.