Calling all Christians!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoleTroll

1. Whether Hitler actually repented is not the point. Gene Simmons' point is that a person who lives a life of pure evil and converts to Christianity five minutes before death goes to heaven, while a truly moral Jew (or Buddhist, etc.) will go to Hell despite living a life of good actions. It's a valid point.

---

No, it isn't. And if you read everything I had to say previously, you'd know it.

Not to mention the fact that God is both fair and just, and behaves in a fair and just manner. To say that anyone has a "better shot of making it" is diluting the facts. You're either in or out. There's no guess work. Buhhhists and Hitlers alike.

You lose.

Quote:

---

2. About "always sinning" -- if a man lusts after a woman, he has already committed adultery in his heart. So, we're all pretty much sinning all the time. A person who commits one sin is just as guilty as a person who commits them all.

---

Wrong again. It is possible to curtail the desires one might have toward the opposite sex. Blaming the behavior on the behavior itself is foolishness.

ok, just say I'm a pure, warm hearted missionary and my brother is hitler. I go to heaven while he goes to hell. However, I'll be distrought as fuck knowing that he's being eternally tortured, thus, in away, I get tortured too, turning my afterlife into a hell. what would be the deal in such a situation? I don't deserve this mental anguish, yet Hitler (argueably) doesn't deserve to go to heaven. Quite the conundrum...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by arjue

ok, just say I'm a pure, warm hearted missionary and my brother is hitler. I go to heaven while he goes to hell. However, I'll be distrought as fuck knowing that he's being eternally tortured, thus, in away, I get tortured too, turning my afterlife into a hell. what would be the deal in such a situation? I don't deserve this mental anguish, yet Hitler (argueably) doesn't deserve to go to heaven. Quite the conundrum...

---

And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away. -NKJV Revelation 21:4

You will be comforted by God Himself. There will be no pain, or suffering, or a tortuous remainder of thought of how tings "could have been."

This issue in particular gets very complicated, so I'll not go further unless provoked, as it can sometimes come across as an insensitive, calous notion, when really it is anything but.

Quote:

---

Not to mention the fact that God is both fair and just, and behaves in a fair and just manner.

---

:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

To say that anyone has a "better shot of making it" is diluting the facts. You're either in or out. There's no guess work. Buhhhists and Hitlers alike.

---

He was using exaggeration. Each sect has its own interpretation on what constitutes salvation, so there is a lot of guess work involved. Some might require baptism and speaking in tongues to be saved, others might allow nothing more than Simmons' hypo.

In a sense, there is no "chance" involved, but context matters. If you say that there is a 50-50 chance of a coin flip coming up heads when it lands on the floor, I can say that there is no chance involved, it's actually either 100% or 0% depending upon how hard and fast the coin is flipped, distance to the floor, wind, etc.

Quote:

---

2. About "always sinning" -- if a man lusts after a woman, he has already committed adultery in his heart. So, we're all pretty much sinning all the time. A person who commits one sin is just as guilty as a person who commits them all.

Wrong again. It is possible to curtail the desires one might have toward the opposite sex. Blaming the behavior on the behavior itself is foolishness.

---

"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." -- Jesus, Matt. 5:27-29

Whether or not it's foolish to call a man an adulterer for having lust in his heart is beside the point.

God shouldn't have made chicks so hot if he didn't want us lusting after them.

Quote:

---

The Good Cap'n hit this one on the head. Life is a gift of incredible magnitude. To squander it in a self-serving and self centered ways is wrong

---

Imagine I typed in Denis Leary's final speech from "Demolition Man" in here. I don't remember it, and I'm too lazy too look it up.

We're all complex carbon based vehicles for our chromosomes. We've unfortunately evolved unnecessary higher-level cognitive functions, which seems to lead directly to a superiority complex.

We are better than the animals, plants, and other living things jostling for survival! We matter more in the grand schematics of the Universe?

Why?

Um... because we were made in the own image of the Supreme Being that created everything! We are the caretakers of the Universe, and must set up rules for it, as well as for ourselves.

I just play video games, covet people's wives and donkeys, and try not to think too much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoleTroll

He was using exaggeration. Each sect has its own interpretation on what constitutes salvation, so there is a lot of guess work involved. Some might require baptism and speaking in tongues to be saved, others might allow nothing more than Simmons' hypo.

---

But we, and Simmons, are talking about Christianity exclusively, not any other relegion, and though there there are divisions of belief among Christians, it's black and white in the Bible. I do not base my beliefs on the popular Christian teaching of this (or any) century, but on the Bible itself. As such, it'd be great if we could stay within the confines of the Bible, as I am most familiar with It, as opposed to Reformed Presbiterian, Assemblies of God, or any other "hot topic" doctrines.

Keeping the aforementioned in mind, my statement makes complete sence, and is validated. There is no guess work.

Quote:

---

In a sense, there is no "chance" involved, but context matters. If you say that there is a 50-50 chance of a coin flip coming up heads when it lands on the floor, I can say that there is no chance involved, it's actually either 100% or 0% depending upon how hard and fast the coin is flipped, distance to the floor, wind, etc.

---

I agree. Context does matter. Gene apparently doesn't think so, otherwise he'd have keep those ideas he names as Christian in the context of the rest of the Bible. Had he done so, he'd have seen how wrong he is.

Quote:

---

"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." -- Jesus, Matt. 5:27-29

Whether or not it's foolish to call a man an adulterer for having lust in his heart is beside the point.

---

I agree, but that's not what I did. It appeared as though you were stating that since all men have an uncontrolable urge to oogle pretty women, at least all men sin all the time. There are many things wrong with that statement, however I only chose one to correct. It really wasn't pertinent to the arguement at hand, so on this point I will concede.

However, to be more clear on what side who is on, would you mind using a different example to illustrate your point that everyone is in a perpetual state of sin? As neither your previous example, nor the verse you quoted lend anything to the discussion, and further still, they do not help you in your presentation.

Crackpot theory.

Faith is a concept that has with modern times become, less and less a persuasive reason for people to get their lives together, draw inspiration from, or even to just simply exist. I got into a massive disscusion with my friends abotu this a few a weeks ago and in a moment of total and utter clarity (well, crackpot clarity) we decided that its all part of the plan.

Check this out, Hey-sus.

If God created us in his image, and god is perfect, yet we are not perfect could we not get there?

What is perfection? I think nothing sums up perfection in this world quite like a selfless act.

What is faith? Training wheels.

Abe lincoln once stopped a train on a campaign trip so he could move an injured pig out of the way. A reporter said to him, "Wow that was such a selfless act." Lincoln responded, "No, there is no such thing as a selfless act, I just couldn't live with myself knowing I had done nothing to help the pig."

No one in the history of the world, has committed a truly selfless act. People cite faith, and the belief's as reasons to give them strength to commit selfless acts. Throughout history the bible has said have faith, have faith. But the concept of faith is selfish. It is a reason to get YOU through day, or through a rough time, or that split second when you jump in front of a bullet to save someone.


So I ask, what would it mean to you if someone were to commit a truly selfless act, outside the boundries of faith, and guilt, and understanding? Just completely and utterly selfless.

Wouldn't that be perfection?

Well its just a weird late night crackpot theory, but I thought I'd just share it here and see what people thought.

I like Abe Lincoln. Besides being a model person, he is an ever-flowing wellspring for comedy.

And I agree that there are truly no selfless acts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

But we, and Simmons, are talking about Christianity exclusively, not any other relegion, and though there there are divisions of belief among Christians, it's black and white in the Bible. I do not base my beliefs on the popular Christian teaching of this (or any) century, but on the Bible itself. As such, it'd be great if we could stay within the confines of the Bible, as I am most familiar with It, as opposed to Reformed Presbiterian, Assemblies of God, or any other "hot topic" doctrines.

---

If you don't mind me asking, what bible do you go by? How can you totally trust something that has been tampered with & changed so much throught history?

JM