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Jesus used the Old Testament out of necessity, simply cos there was no other point of reference to teach Jews about God at that time.
Anyhow, his main way of teaching was not sitting there reciting empty verses from the Torah, wasnt his main method the parable and leading by example, thats not dogmatic.
By the way, how can you not turn on the old Testament it gets tiresome being apologetic for God's character flaws.
;)
Well I dont think that Jesus was that Dogmatic either. He came in and turned the haughty societal order around by teaching the word among the people. He didnt try to act as if heaven was untouchable. He brought it down to us and showed us all that God loves us.
We also have to consider the fact that he taught from the Torah and didnt say stuff like "Oh...that part? Forget it....It was a typo :lol:"I think that there are things that I have issues with in terms of the OT but, I wont write it off either.
I guess sense everyone else has advised Violently Happy I should try to offer some help as well.
The best advice I can give is to be honest with yourself. Don't manipulate your feelings, opinions, and the way you interpret things to make things better for you. Don't lie to yourself. Rearranging things so you don't have to change your life, or to avoid being depressed is only going to slow you down. If you really want the truth, be serious about it.
Pay attention to how things make you feel when you think about this stuff. Don't ingore it. If you don't understand a feeling or a concept now, come back to it later, don't leave it for good.
Don't go into reading the bible with a materialistic or worldly mindset. In my honest opinion, I really don't think anyone can understand the Bible if they apply the laws of the material world. In fact, I'd go as far to say God is the most evil presence in the world if you only look at things of the physical. As far as God goes, the spiritual is all that really matters in the end. Everything else is fauder, such as towns, or physical human bodies. So if you read something or hear something and think "oh no, that is so wrong" it might make you feel better to ask yourself "what is he hurting? the physical or the spiritual?"
And if all else fails, give it time, and pray.
Pardon me for assessing the situation incorrectly; however, if you remember, it was me you were quoting, so I'm sure you'll understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOVESKI
"Full" of anger? Hardly. You're "the Bible means what you want it to" approach is what angered me. But not even that, the fact that you would have the audacity to fly in the face of a thousand year old belief system, one that happens to be my own, because you don't like the way it comes across, and told me, though not directly, that I was incorrect, all the while seeking to distract someone who is honestly seeking God.Quote:
sorry but the fact that you are so full of anger and defensive reflects the reality of your character.
That's where the anger came from. Again, if you would care to read some of my other posts you'd realize who I realy was, rather than assessing this single statement of my own and then blanketing my reaction over me so as to suggest that that's who I am all the time.
I wasn't speaking politically. You are clearly a deviant where the Gospel is concerned, in other words, you are more liberal in your interpretation of the Bible, as opposed to "traditional," or "conservative."Quote:
I also find it funny that you immediately judge my character traits and refer to me as a liberal.
Are you going to now tell me I'm wrong? It seems a pretty accurate description to me.
And funny how you do the same thing. Immediatly judging my character traits.
Pot?
Yes, Kettle...?
Funny...the Bible you say is open to the individual's interpretation says within it's very pages that the words of God aren't subject to the interpretation of individual men, as well that only the Holy Spirit is capable of interpreting it. Hmmm...I wonder where that leaves you.Quote:
I happened to believe the Bible is up to your own personal interpretation and I happened to believe Jesus felt the same way
And if you really knew anything about Jesus, and if you really knew Jesus, you'd think otherwise.
"If you truely love me, you will follow my commandments." Ring any bells?
And you sound like the typical deviant "christian."Quote:
You sound more like a Pharisee that the Son of God or a man filled with the Holy Spirit.
Rediculous. Why do you say I sound that way? Because I got angry that you would teach a false doctrine? Jesus did that all the time. He even went so far as to start a little ruckus in the Temple.
You are clearly teaching a doctrine that you say is the truth and is contained within the Bible. Everthing you've said that the Bible contains the Bible itself contradicts.
You can have your beliefs. You can even preach them here. But don't ever tell me I'm wrong concerning the Bible because you say so or want to believe so, first because you are clearly incorrect, and second because chances are I'm not wrong.
Jesus was about bringing glory to His Father, the Lord God Almighty. And about Him not being judgemental or inflamatory?Quote:
Jesus was about making religion a personal thing, a direct link to God through his example, not being judgmental and inflammatory.
Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."
Straight from the Lord's mouth, NKJV Luke 12:51-53
When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers' money and overturned the tables.
John 2:15
Seems to me like He was both judgemental and inflamatory. He made a whip, or a scourge, and beat the people who had offended God directly. He judged them offenders, and He took infamatory action against them.
I know you don't like verse quoting, as I'm sure you're aware of how the truth shines through them in spite of all your lies, but there was no helping it.
Hah! Your presumption is silly and misplaced. Save your "organized relegion is bad" speach I'm sure you're itching to belt out. My only authority is Jesus Christ, and His word as written in the Bible. Martin Luther and the Holy Roman See were misguided and blinded by political ambtion.Quote:
Calling my brand of Christianity twisted is odd, who ever said your brand of Christianity was right...
You're Bible knowlege is, I'm sure, sorely lacking, which is why you think of Jesus the way you do. He is God. He is the God of the Old and New Testament. Not some guy who preached that "God lies within," as what He truely preached was that He is God. He wasn't a love-monger, as He said He was here to bring division even among families. He came to bring the sword.
You're view of Jesus is twisted. Is it odd that I say that? No. It's true.
_____________________________________________________________
Look, I'm done with this. I've never had any kind of discussion with you, and relegion is the wrong foot to start off on, as it will hinder all other interaction we have from here on out.
I'd like it if we could walk away from this right now. Inspite of me calling you a liar and challenging your interpretation of the Bible, and you making blanked statements about me and my character, and indirectly calling me a liar or fool or whatever you'd call a "dogmatic lunatic."
You have your beliefs, and I have mine. But please, out of respect for those who would be searching for God: If they come to you, you answer their questions and lead them down the path you feel is right and I'll not interfere. But by the same tolken, if they come to me (or any other Christian on the boards) to have their questions answered and seek guidence, I will answer their questions and you will not interfere.
Deal?
Also, feel free to respond to this entire post. I'll not answer but maybe a few points should you choose to respond, but I will read it.
Fair enough. Good post Vegetable and my sincere apologies, I really wasnt trying to upset you personally, I just have a problem with the OT God, in that he seems more like a projection of man than the entity which created this universe, etc. God bless. Whichever God that may be were all in the same boat and trying to live fair, honest lives.
I would really like to thank everyone who had stories to share with me. They were very insightful and inspiring.
Thanks.
I try to not worry about the OT that much. Yeah it's the word of God but its just a horse of a different color comparied to the NT. For one the book is so old that for a long time a lot of what is in it was passed on from word of mouth. People complain about how a lot of the NT was written like 50 to 100 years after the life of christ, well the OT is a lot worse. For a lot of the things written in to be written down, writing itself had to be invented. So you have a lot of stuff being passed down verbally. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it having to go through so many people, espically men, may explain the more agrissive tone of it. That may also help explain why it's pretty bare bones on some issues as people only kept telling the really importent details.
Here's how I look at it:
The Old Testament gives us insight into God's righteousness, while the New Testament gives us insight into His love.
Thanks, man. I know where you're coming from. Lots and lots of people have a problem with the OT God, especially in relation the the NT God. And with apparent good reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOVESKI
God bless you, too. :D
Now we so happy; we do the Myposian dance of Joy!
Belkie was as bad as hitler.