There criticisms are valid, but doesn't affect how fun it is. Fuck them in their sandy vaginas.
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There criticisms are valid, but doesn't affect how fun it is. Fuck them in their sandy vaginas.
Pretty sure criticizing the sexualization is missing the point entirely.
I'm pretty sure visiting Polygon is missing the point entirely.
Could this be a better month?
I get to play two new Platinum games and a new Mikami game.
In the same month.
how the hell did this happen
Criticizing a game for its content is valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanX
With Bayo they miss the point but there's nothing wrong with knocking a game for pandering.
This is the best month in a long time for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tain
It might be, but harping on it for like 8 paragraphs at multiple points in your review is just bad writing.Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstBlood
Everyone loves reviews that use the review as a platform to rail on about something the author considers to be a problem in gaming! I can't think of a better way to analyze a game!
Arthur Gies has shit opinions.
If I wasn't banned from GAF this would have done it for sure.
3 different cliches in the first 3 sentences lol
Just beat it a few hours ago. Time to beat was 11:38:00, and that was a straight run-through without finding all of the award scenarios, not beating a couple of the challenge rooms, and not going back to get better scores on any of the chapters.
Really, really liked it—remembered why I fell in love with the original Bayonetta. Which is better? That's hard, but I guess on the Wii U, it doesn't matter, because you get both. I tend to like origin stories, and there's nothing like your first time, so I guess I'd say the first has a bigger place in my heart. That's nothing negative meant toward Bayo 2, though, as I enjoyed almost all of the game. (There's one chapter that definitely felt weaker than the rest, but it's not a big deal.)
The two-player mode also seems to be really interesting, and there's far more fun unlocks this time around.
Also, Bayonetta is definitely one of my favorite game characters. She's a strong, sassy bitch who never plays second fiddle to any man, who kicks WAY more ass than any man in the game, and who doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks of her. I don't know, if all you can see are the playful sexy moments and miss all of that, that's a shame. I'd put Bayo way above most other videogame females any day.
Edit: That's not to mention that two of the game's three other strongest, most badass characters are both female.
Sounds great! Getting really excited!
I've knocked points off in a review for some RPG being pedo-tastic, although I forget which one. If a game element makes me want to put the thing down and walk away, it's a valid reason to lower the score.
Bayonetta 2, however, I'm really looking forward to.
I tend to get pissed off when games try to walk the tightrope. Conception II is a great example: a strange enough premise to be off-putting, but tame enough to really make it all worse thanks to the subtext. Had they gone one way or the other (kept it as pure and squeaky-clean as they could, or just gone all-out and taken the child creation thing to its obvious conclusion), I might have liked it. As it stands, I think it's a turn-off, no matter what you want out of it.
Meanwhile I am perfectly okay with Lego games bowdlerizing their source material, because they're fucking Lego games and you should know that a kid-oriented game is not going to contain swastikas. And on the flip side, you should already know what you're going to get when you play Mortal Kombat: totally gratuitous violence. At some point you just have to accept that a game is what it is, and judge it on its own merits and how well it achieves what it sets out to do. Complaining about Bayonetta being sexual is like complaining about the Satanic imagery in Doom: you can have a good argument for it being a problem for certain groups of people, but at the same time it simply doesn't matter BECAUSE THAT'S AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE GAME.
To put a personal spin on it, there's Prison Architect. I have extremely strong beliefs about the correctional system (short version: rehabilitation good, punishment bad, for-profit prisons extremely bad. Go read The Lucifer Effect.) that make playing the game an very uncomfortable experience. It's a great management game and it makes its political points very effectively, but at the same time I simply cannot play it for more than sparse, short periods of time. But I wouldn't dock it points in a hypothetical review for this.
Why wouldn't you dock points though? It's perfectly acceptable to criticize a game's subject or tone or context in a review.
I know we are used to just reviewing games as a checklist against a bunch of hypothetical mechanical ideals, but that's not all games are.
Those things do not fall under GRAPHICS, SOUND, or FUN FACTOR. They are not eligible for critical evaluation.
Anyone arguing about the number at the end of a review instead of the content is an asshole anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by bVork
Attachment 75292Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
doesn't really fit into CONTROLS or CHALLENGE either though
oh well, we tried
The Polygon reviewer is challenged, but in a more politically correct and less gameplay-related way.
edit: Maybe it's less "challenged" and more "handicapable" or "differently able."
It'll be a challenge to keep your hands out of your pants with all the pedo action going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joust Williams
I think it was you who was really upset by the implied rape in Witch and the Thousand Knight, but you were just previewing that. Or am I thinking of someone else here?Quote:
Originally Posted by James
Does Bayo 2 have any weak vehicle segments? Only bad part about the first.
It has vehicle segments, but I think they're all much better that those in the first.
There is a fine line between blasting a game for sexuality and slut shaming. The Polygon guy accuses B2's camera of "leering." It is not leering. It is not invading her privacy. It is not victimizing her. This isn't one of those weird light gun/touch screen molestation sims where you poke at half-consenting or unconsenting girls. Unlike the girls in those games, Bayonetta is in complete control of her body and her sexuality. Bayonetta is making the camera submit to her, not vice versa.
Also, I like tits. Always have. I do not apologize for this, nor should I. Being a feminist doesn't mean hating every boner you get.
That was me. And it wasn't so much the implied rape as the "I've turned you into a fertile rat and now you're going to get fucked to death by these three hot & horny male rats, A-HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!" bit, and then all the rats run off the screen in a semi-cute and comedic fashion. That tripped my "Welp, I'm done" triggers pretty hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
This reallyQuote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
Here's what Bayonetta isn't:
Attachment 75299
This is leering. This is fetishizing a woman's loss of control of her body and sexuality. This is what polygon guy is actually angry about games doing, but can't distinguish from what Bayonetta is doing.
Sorry sonsujanamu.
I accept that.Quote:
Originally Posted by shidoshi
Akiba's Trip is tasteless and bad in a lot of ways, but the localized version is an equal-opportunity offender:Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
Attachment 75302
The demo was awesome. I think it's weird with the content of the Polygon review that they have a prominent screenshot of Bayonetta with no clothes, it's a split second in the game but it's like a creepy freeze frame in the middle of the review. Arthur Gies should have replayed Killer is Dead before he played Bayonetta 2 to put shit into perspective.
Maybe he was already practiced by trying to jack off during Sailor Moon transformations.
True, and MechDeus your sailor moon comment is gold. [note: Killer is Dead is brilliant, but undeniably and wildly sexist]Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroBlue
Assuming videogames are art (I think they are) I don't think reviewers should take moral considerations into account. That's why I think the Gies review is weak.
On the opposing side, you could argue that by docking Bayonetta a bunch of points for sexism, he thinks he's [somehow] making a difference in the whole #gameethics / Zoe Quinn / whoever else controversy happening now. And I actually commend that, if that's what he thinks he's doing, even though I doubt a Polygon review have much of an impact on anything. Plus it's not Platinum Games' fault that Zoe's ex is weird.
On 2nd thought, my bet is Gies is trying to impress and hopefully fuck feminist hipster chicks.
All things considered, the Gies review is abhorrent. It reads like, "Bayonetta 2 is an excellent action game with no flaws. However there's cleavage so that's a flaw - 7.5 instead of 10."
I might stop reading Polygon
Gies apparently has his own page over at Suicide Girls. (Yes, the site is obnoxious; only one I could find with a screen grab)
Hmmm.
I love it.
I really don't see the contradiction here; Suicide Girls is not exploitative. That's the whole point of Suicide Girls. If Gies believes Bayo 2 is exploitative, then obviously there is no contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by No One
Don't link to sites like that anymore.
I just wanted to say the demo was really fucking good. I'm crazy psyched for this in just over a week.
I firmly believe that Bayonetta agreed to dress the way that she prefers and do up her hair as she sees fit. There is no exploitation here.
Edit: Fuck it, I don't want to derail the thread any further with this shit.
The only times I can remember that I've ever felt awkward about misogyny in a game was a)Metroid: Other M; where they had a strong stoic female character and they made her have horrible daddy issues, be heavily vulnerable in a pathetic way, constantly need approval from a man, etc. and b)Killer is Dead, which had a horribly useless shitty minigame that I played way too many times to get 1000 gamerscore.
Haha, NICE!. I mean with her ridiculous proportions there is no way that she could just by clothes "off the rack". No man decides what part of her body is covered by her prehensile hair!Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
Bayonetta 2 starts with her shopping and talking about the dress she just recently bought.
Was this proceeded by a giggly discussion about boys and a pillow fight?
Bayonetta is too busy being fabulous and getting off on torturing angels to engage in that nonsense. And she don't need no boys (or men) especially in my slash fanfics.
She is a strong, independent woman who don't need no man.
She also currently has an awesome demo out, for her game that comes out in like a week.
I went to pick this up from Best Buy, and they didn't have it, despite charging my card and sending the email that it was ready for pickup. I wandered into the back and didn't see any on the shelf either. I advise calling before you make a trip and not trusting their web site if anyone else preordered there.
Every time I've gone there for a Nintendo (read Friday) release, the stuff is never out and someone has to go into the back for it.
That happened with Bravely Default too. I can't recommend in store pick up at Best Buy at all. Just run in there and get it quicker than the special needs help.
will I get this if I walk into a store at lunch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Just got back from my local Best Buy and fortunately didn't have any problem with my pre-order-pickup for Bayonetta 2, nor did I with other recent releases in Theatrhythm Final Fantasy: Curtain Call, Hyrule Warriors, and Super Smash Bros. for 3DS. Although I didn't check the shelves for Bayonetta 2 and Fantasy Life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name
I just got it at Gamestop without a preorder.
you paid more than $48 for it though.
I got it too
Amazon's not sending mine until tomorrow. Mannnnnn
looks like I will be (not) playing this before you guys...I just wanted a copy so it doesn't go OoP in 5 days
Horizon 2 is my game
A friend of mine had a different experience. He got the email yesterday, thought "wtf?" and went to the store. They gave him the game, he spent all last night playing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Another friend was debating, he wants the game but he also wanted CvS for Dreamcast and the budget was tight. I gave him an extra copy of CvS on the condition that he bought Bayo 2.
Amazon dropped the ball. They didn't offer release date guaranteed delivery when pre-orders went up and then a few weeks ago added it, but didn't automatically update people's orders.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoofNee
That's some bullshit. Maybe if I email them with sadness they'll counter with a gift card.
This is the way of the world.
$38, thanks to the $10 gift card from The Evil Within.Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name
meh, I'm happy to pay retail for it. God knows nothing else good is coming out for this thing.
This game is a really nice change of pace from the rest of the usual holiday lineup. I'm around nine chapters in and some of the levels are so ridiculous and awesome. Even the music is top notch. It's so nice to hear a good original soundtrack nowadays. I was watching football and playing this on the game pad but I turned it off because this game really needs to be played on a big tv and with a proper sound system.
Only complaint I have is the dialog. Platinum tried too hard with the M rating by adding in the word fuck, a lot. It's extremely forced and retarded.
I can't wait to get to it. After two games with a lot of darkness and sneaking, I'm looking forward to brightness and speed.
Enzo being more ridiculous and obscene can only HELP this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiMoogle
It'd only be forced if it was Bayonetta saying it. It's not.
MOOOOOOTHERFUUUUUUCKER
Finished it. GOTY so far, bar none.
If there's any advice I can offer, don't start on Climax 3. There's only one difficulty higher than it and there's no rush. You're not even close to a complete character until you buy all the moves and some weapon alts. I forced myself through it thinking it was a typical Platinum game with like 6 difficulty settings.
I also think the final boss was probably a tad bit underwhelming considering some of the other setpieces in the game. By far the best segment was the Witch Hunt part where you get to kick ass with your mom.
Yeah, I loved that part so much. Your mom (said in a serious way, not the TNL way) is so badass, and having a segment like that with a relationship moment like that was equal parts awesome and emotional.
I started on Climax 3 and don't regret it at all, though I pretty much always want my first playthrough of games in this genre to be tough. Currently on Chapter XIII and really couldn't be happier with this game. I'm getting weirdly strong Ninja Gaiden vibes from it.
Bayonetta really is the best character.
Finally got mine from Amazon, but I'm going to play through the first game since I never competed it on the 360.
It seems pretty much everyone loves this game, it's been a while since I've seen a game so universally praised by real people.
I'll pick this up next week. I made a choice between this and Hyrule Warriors and I want to dig into that 1st before I play Bayonetta. I'm stoked to really dig into both.
My issue is that you're obviously not equipped to deal with some of the crap you get into early on, leading to lots of Enzo stone medals. Which leads to shit for halos, so you can't buy the upgrades you obviously need to do better and get more. I can appreciate a challenge but it's obvious the curve was built for starting with Climax 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tain
I haven't felt that way at all. I do get the occasional stone verse, but I've been upgrading at a pretty similar pace to what I was when I first played Bayonetta on Normal.
Is there anything in B2 for beating the WiiU version of B1? Probably going to replay it but just curious
Nope, no bonuses unlock.
Good.
So, about the character/costume unlocks.
The costumes actually change your character pretty dramatically. The star fox costume gives you the arwing charge shot and makes you incredibly fast. Your bullets turn into lasers and do more damage. The sheer amount of unlocks is pretty mind boggling and can easily change the way you play.
I never played much Bayo 1 for some stupid reason, so I'm going through it first.
Oh. My. God. This fucking game. It's incredible.
Good man.Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanX
I started Bayonetta 2, but I also played around with the first one a bit using the Samus costume. I'm kind of tempted to put 2 on hold and run through the first one again.
So the clothes carry over to the first one from the second?
The first one has a bunch of Nintendo costumes just unlocked from the start, in the second one you have to unlock them. I'm not sure off hand if all of them are in both games. I know Link, Peach, and Samus are in both games. Not sure if Fox and Daisy are in both.
Daisy is in the first one, but I haven't seen Fox.
Fox is not in Bayonetta 1, nor are the short-haired variants from Bayo2.
Beat this last night.
To the point, those expecting the exact same thing as 1 will probably be disappointed. It is also less polished and almost feels like it was rushed by at least 2 months.
The game feels like it was slated for December and was changed to make sure it had the full winter season to build sales.
It is also missing obvious things like the after burner theme for the parts where you actually ride on a jet (the music also feels sparse across the whole game and seems less varied.)
The game reuses a lot of level content from the first game. Levels are smaller. Less exploring. Less puzzle solving and platforming.
Repeated plays depend more on uunlocking things than the first game imo.
It is an overall lesser experience.
Oh, and Japan is still bad a modeling humans in cut scenes. Everyone that isn't bayonetta just moves and reacts weird. But that is about anything coming from japan.
These sound like improvements to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
You'll find yourself moving from one circle spot to the next for battles.
The game feels like dlc more than anything.
Sure, it's a good buy. You get 1 and 2. But 2 isn't as fill an experience.
There just aren't that many polygons left to be pushed once the T&A is fully modeled and animated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
I liked it more than the original. I didn't have to spoil things on Normal before playing on a harder difficulty level, the environments are nicer, and the cutscenes are less obnoxious. It's very much the same territory as the original, but I found it to be an improvement.
Acceptable tradeoff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
What cutscenes? They used screen caps and a clock animation for 90% of themQuote:
Originally Posted by Tain
The additions of the Ubran Climaxes make this a much better playing game than the first Bayonetta, in my opinion. They're so good and so integral to the game that you kind of forget they didn't exist in the original.
I kind of miss the more exploration-based sections, but really, I understand why they were cut down. They really slowed down the pacing of the game, and took away from the main focus (combat).
Those are still cutscenes, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
The first game did that, too. It's a really classy way to not have to spend a ton of budget on animating cutscenes so it can be better used on MAKING THE BEST COMBAT ENGINE IN A VIDEO GAME.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Fair trade-off.
Apologetics
both games have the cheapo cutscenes, but Bayonetta 2's know when to end
Am I remembering crappy or is the WiiU B1 port full of slowdown where the 360 version wasn't? I can dig out the 360 version (I never did finish it ;p) but I'd rather just play the WiiU one. Several of the boss fights near the start run at half speed or something
Wow, the comments on that video's page gave me cancer.
YouTube comments for a console comparison? The only reason to look at them is to hate yourself for doing so.
Fixed that for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus