Religion and Science in the Classroom

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Frog, personally, did not come up with that idea. I'm pretty sure he even said as much.

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He accepted it. He's still thinking from inside the confines of those two religions. They said that God was unknowable, and he accepted that as part of his argument.

In truth, we only know that ancients were wrong about something or everything. They could just as well be wrong about what they thought God was, being unknowable, as they were about the existence of a God.

Its really odd to say "no, you were completely right about this part but it just so happens that everything that the parts are connected to does not exist"

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

They were close to Pi 4,000 years ago.

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with pi, that is the same thing as being wrong.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Frog is speaking against the major organized religions which have in the past put down specific guidelines regarding their beliefs. Doctrines. You can look at those and be like "Yeah, that's not real. Sorry." That I can understand.

You and Yoshi are saying that people who don't believe in "God" are wrong because there is no definition of "God" and also anything could happen or exist outside our purview, so how can you be so sure nothing exists that could be quantified as a god a la Undiscovered Country. That's stupid. Please stop.

This isn't an exactly a new problem. Many have argued that the Jesus character was created because society had matured enough to start having a serious problem with God(s) being unknowable. The NT was just fan fiction someone wrote on a underdeveloped character. The boba fet of the Bible.

And christanity took off because you suddenly had a knowable God and everyone wanted that.

It isn't elaborately different in how comic book heros have evolved. In how we shifted from pure hero vs villain stories, where the Hero is perfect to late 70s early 80s Marvel stuff where Heros are just flawed people with super powers. People get tired of believing in perfect people.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong. I'm saying you can't believe something you can't define doesn't exist. If you want the freedom to wait for evidence, you're agnostic, even if that isn't as "cool."

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

with pi, that is the same thing as being wrong.

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Well, that's a bit of a problem for engineers then. Might as well pack it up.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

The boba fet of the Bible.

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Jesus was eaten by the Sarlacc for your sins.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I'm not saying anyone is wrong. I'm saying you can't believe something you can't define doesn't exist. If you want the freedom to wait for evidence, you're agnostic, even if that isn't as "cool."

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Wait, what? If you make something up, why would I have to actively believe against it to cancel out your fantasy? I can just be neutral and NOT believe what you, personally, believe and stay in the same real world I've always lived in. Why am I believing anything again?

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Opaque bringing evolution into it shows he doesn't get it, because that has shit all to do with the existence of deities. We've even brought up scenarios where a deity and evolution can co-exist.

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I didn't use evolution as my example to prove or disprove a diety. I could have just as easily said I don't have faith that blood types exist, I have evidence. At most I picked evolution because it seemed like a good example given the type of discussion going on here.

The only point I was making is that a atheism isn't faith based.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

You and Yoshi are saying that people who don't believe in "God" are wrong because there is no definition of "God" and also anything could happen or exist outside our purview, so how can you be so sure nothing exists that could be quantified as a god a la Undiscovered Country. That's stupid. Please stop.

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I'm not saying they are wrong.

I just don't see why you would deny the existence of God on the terms of those that believe in a God. You've already pretty much told them that their doctrines could get wrecked, so why restrict your argument with them?

Saying something like "well it might haven been Aliens or they were just stupid" isn't the same thing as saying "ah ha, I got you, now you have to make Jebus your personal Lord and savior or you'll go to hell"

You not being a 100% right, doesn't make any or all world religions right by default.