Religion and Science in the Classroom

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Originally Posted by Mzo

So the question now is whether Ancient Aliens is more believable on the Believ-o-meter than Christianity.

This is awesome.

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fun fact: they're one in the same

ezekiel didn't ascend into heaven after writing his prophecies, he was abducted and butt-probed

e: they (ancient aliens) did like 4 episodes on that shit

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Originally Posted by Mzo

But is it more or less believable if he might be a 6 foot tall albino from China, born and raised?

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I wish I could believe it. How rad would that be?

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

I think, therefore I am

that's about all you know

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you probably know less than that.

I'm convinced that the conscious mind is little more than a feedback loop. If it was more, people wouldn't be able to ignore it so easily and would have fewer problems in life.

Also, stupid people that don't think much wouldn't be able to function as well as they do.

;/

I believe in Mzo's Ducktales planet

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

And yet you cannot prove with certainty that he, or even the room your sitting in, exists. You can merely determine that it is very likely.

My belief that there is nothing resembling most existing concepts of God is not faith-based, it's reason-based and probabilistic. A belief to the contrary is not. They are not the same.

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Well yeah.

There is a statistically significant probability that Yoshi plays video games based on the evidence, additionally there has never been evidence that he doesn't play video games so I am highly confident that he does. I know that's how science talks about things. No theory is sound unless there is a way to disprove it, that's just a fundamental part of the scientific theory. The most you can say about anything in a scientific sense is that you are "highly confident".

I get the sense that most of us agree, we just don't realize it because one set of people keeps throwing the word 'faith' in there.

I think that is our point of contention. I ascribe faith to a person who believes things for no reason other than it feels good, or perhaps it's just an easy answer for them. Whether or not that's the correct definition, who knows, but I am guessing a lot of other people have the same view.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

;/

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We view ourselves as our conscious mind, but I think 'we're actually something that it connects to or something that reacts to it. Our conscious mind is feed back: the information taken in from the real world and the layer of our mind that processes it and also retrieves old data and mixes it with the new data. The part of us that makes the decisions that ultimately define us and determine our lives lays somewhere outside of that.

A great deal of our own suffering comes from how imperfectly those two systems work together. And the disconnect between who we think we are and who we really are.

Or, to ask the question, are we the dream or the parts of the dream that we realize within our lifetime?

The answers to this questions create interesting scenarios. Like, take someone like George Washington. We know the man as a product of his actions. But who was he in is conscious mind? Does anyone know anyone else's conscious mind? And if most of us feel the conscious mind is 'us' doesn't that mean each of us is alone, every second of everyday, since we only see the product of that conscious mind working in relation to a dozen other parts of it? Distorted, like a light bouncing off a dozen mirrors and other random objects?

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Originally Posted by Calliander

I get the sense that most of us agree, we just don't realize it because one set of people keeps throwing the word 'faith' in there.

I think that is our point of contention. I ascribe faith to a person who believes things for no reason other than it feels good, or perhaps it's just an easy answer for them. Whether or not that's the correct definition, who knows, but I am guessing a lot of other people have the same view.

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yes, most of us agree in that people that lived 2000+ years ago probably didn't have a very good grasp on how the universe worked.

The difference in opinions is mainly from perspective. People that ask why arguing with people that ask why not.

I think the issue of faith in atheism is an issue of sociology more than anything. As pointed out earlier, it doesn't take courage now to be an atheist. Its pretty common on both the east and west coast. And I don't think may Christians have faith in the purest sense of the word. I think both types of people grow up in a culture that makes specific assertions and based on those assertions, people come to conclusions. People don't believe in God because of faith, they believe because a famous book and EVERYONE they live around says God is real. That isn't faith, that is accepting truth via outside authority or submitting your will to the majority. And if you live around a bunch of people that aren't religious and you're atheist, well laudy fucking dah. Why WOULD you believe in a god, when almost nobody is saying you should?

For what it's worth, I don't think that believing in God or a religion is stupid, I don't think religious people are dumber than atheists or any of that horseshit. I just think it's disingenuous to act like both religious people and skeptics are approaching this the same way and that their processes ultimately both boil down to faith. It's dishonest to equate them in that way.