fun fact: they're one in the sameQuote:
Originally Posted by Mzo
ezekiel didn't ascend into heaven after writing his prophecies, he was abducted and butt-probed
e: they (ancient aliens) did like 4 episodes on that shit
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fun fact: they're one in the sameQuote:
Originally Posted by Mzo
ezekiel didn't ascend into heaven after writing his prophecies, he was abducted and butt-probed
e: they (ancient aliens) did like 4 episodes on that shit
I wish I could believe it. How rad would that be?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzo
you probably know less than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joust Williams
I'm convinced that the conscious mind is little more than a feedback loop. If it was more, people wouldn't be able to ignore it so easily and would have fewer problems in life.
Also, stupid people that don't think much wouldn't be able to function as well as they do.
;/
I believe in Mzo's Ducktales planet
Well yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
There is a statistically significant probability that Yoshi plays video games based on the evidence, additionally there has never been evidence that he doesn't play video games so I am highly confident that he does. I know that's how science talks about things. No theory is sound unless there is a way to disprove it, that's just a fundamental part of the scientific theory. The most you can say about anything in a scientific sense is that you are "highly confident".
I get the sense that most of us agree, we just don't realize it because one set of people keeps throwing the word 'faith' in there.
I think that is our point of contention. I ascribe faith to a person who believes things for no reason other than it feels good, or perhaps it's just an easy answer for them. Whether or not that's the correct definition, who knows, but I am guessing a lot of other people have the same view.
We view ourselves as our conscious mind, but I think 'we're actually something that it connects to or something that reacts to it. Our conscious mind is feed back: the information taken in from the real world and the layer of our mind that processes it and also retrieves old data and mixes it with the new data. The part of us that makes the decisions that ultimately define us and determine our lives lays somewhere outside of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joust Williams
A great deal of our own suffering comes from how imperfectly those two systems work together. And the disconnect between who we think we are and who we really are.
Or, to ask the question, are we the dream or the parts of the dream that we realize within our lifetime?
The answers to this questions create interesting scenarios. Like, take someone like George Washington. We know the man as a product of his actions. But who was he in is conscious mind? Does anyone know anyone else's conscious mind? And if most of us feel the conscious mind is 'us' doesn't that mean each of us is alone, every second of everyday, since we only see the product of that conscious mind working in relation to a dozen other parts of it? Distorted, like a light bouncing off a dozen mirrors and other random objects?
yes, most of us agree in that people that lived 2000+ years ago probably didn't have a very good grasp on how the universe worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliander
The difference in opinions is mainly from perspective. People that ask why arguing with people that ask why not.
I think the issue of faith in atheism is an issue of sociology more than anything. As pointed out earlier, it doesn't take courage now to be an atheist. Its pretty common on both the east and west coast. And I don't think may Christians have faith in the purest sense of the word. I think both types of people grow up in a culture that makes specific assertions and based on those assertions, people come to conclusions. People don't believe in God because of faith, they believe because a famous book and EVERYONE they live around says God is real. That isn't faith, that is accepting truth via outside authority or submitting your will to the majority. And if you live around a bunch of people that aren't religious and you're atheist, well laudy fucking dah. Why WOULD you believe in a god, when almost nobody is saying you should?
For what it's worth, I don't think that believing in God or a religion is stupid, I don't think religious people are dumber than atheists or any of that horseshit. I just think it's disingenuous to act like both religious people and skeptics are approaching this the same way and that their processes ultimately both boil down to faith. It's dishonest to equate them in that way.
I don't believe faith is a real thing. If you talk to many religious people, most of them have some reason or another to believe.
Yes, I think that is fair. Probabilistically, atheism is more likely to be accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
For what it's worth, I record Ancient Aliens every week, but you couldn't pay we to watch televangelism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzo
This thread needs more solipsism.
Describe, in detail, the face of the intelligent democrat. I'm talking about characteristics it would have to have, were it to be discovered, to be considered an intelligent democrat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I understand the point you're trying to make, but this is tedious. There are lots of intelligent Democrats. I just don't agree with their priorities or values. Hillary Clinton is intelligent. If she weren't, I wouldn't view her as so dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
This thread, Jesus Christ.
Quick, save him from the sarlacc!Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanX
I look forward to revisiting this discussion when Islam is the #1 religion in the states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
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Originally Posted by GohanX
How would that change anything in terms of the current discussion?
So then at what probability does something become certain enough that you can say you believe it to be so, conversationally?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
You see where I'm going here? You're equating two things that are very unequal using a bullshit inverse slippery slope argument where you will only accept absolutes.
Certainly there are people that accept atheism on authority out of a kind of faith, but that doesn't make the belief itself a faith-based one. Most people accept that particle theory on authority without really understanding it, but that doesn't make it the same as believing in fables you heard as a kid.
Because the theoretical discussion we are having doesn't focus much on the fact that creationists want creationism taught in schools to talk about Jesus. You can sling your faith cock around all you want, but that doesn't change facts. IP nailed this earlier. Some of us forget that the middle of the country is a wasteland of Jesus. Do you really want the schools in our nation teaching Christianity?
When brown people people threaten your white ass kids in your white ass school with some scary brown religion people are going to see this a LOT differently. What about the children, etc.
I definitely see where you are going, but I think the desire to label oneself as an atheist has more to do with current trends than any amount of probability. In fact, I doubt most atheists even know what probability is, just like most religious people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Ah, so you're back on topic. This thread has been so much more interesting since we ditched that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
Good luck with the Muslim thing though. The blacks and Latinos that the Democrats love to crow so much about in terms of demographics are overwhelmingly Christian. This may wind up being a case of "be careful what you wish for; you just might get it."
Side question: do you agree with the entire republican platform as it currently stands or just the majority of it? If their platform swung on a spwcific issue you currently agree with to one you no longer do would you admit that you don't agree with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Personally I just agree with more stances the democratic party has, but I agree with like 30% or so of what your average republic platform contains.
I definitely don't agree with all of it. I am agnostic in terms of religion and very much for animal rights and other environmental issues. In a nutshell, I am in favor of helping creatures that cannot take care of themselves in a human-dominated world, whether they are animals, children, the severely handicapped, or the elderly. Where I am very much Republican is that anyone who is physically capable of taking care of himself should be expected by all of society to do so and that no one gets a second chance until everyone gets a first one. I view abortion as a lack of taking responsibility, so I am against it in all non-criminal or severe medical cases. I am very much pro-military and space, if you can separate those, both because of national security and because of the side effects, such as technological advancements: Velcro, Tang, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
I agree with literally everything you just said.
The funny part is I don't think either of us would think we agree on the tactics to get there. Which is wierd.
For the record, I snuck an abortion line in there during/after Opaque's post. I don't want to unintentionally put words in his mouth.
This is just crazy. Don't you yip and yap about welfare all the time? Does the world need more unwanted children? Literally one hundred other questions too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
This is just crazy. Don't you yip and yap about welfare all the time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/att...8&d=1362094756Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Yep, for working age people without severe handicaps, it should not exist... at all. Every kid should get a chance. If they take that chance and flush it, fuck 'em.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
edit: We're now about to go way off topic.
edit2: I need to get the death penalty in there. I firmly believe there are people so heinous that the world is a better place without them in it, whether free or locked up. I'd consider lifetime Alcatraz-style solitary as an alternative but not any scenario where they could potentially influence others in any way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
So welfare is ok below the age of 18?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Indeed. I don't think I've ever posted anything to the contrary. If I have, it was out of laziness in terms of not wanting to type a lot and not out of believing otherwise.
Somehow we have to address the "professional moms" that keep having kids to get checks. I'll be the first to admit I don't have all the answers as to how you protect those children without rewarding their parasitic mother.
Well then. What about those that game the system? The oft-discussed "welfare queens"
You beat me to my edit.
I believe abortion and/or establishing criteria for when people can reproduce would solve like 90% of our social issues. Gnostic as fuck on that one.
Of course the biggest argument against abortion/contraception in general is religion, so awesome.
The biggest argument against contraception is idiocy, but the first amendment protects that in all kinds of areas.
I also agree with this. I was unemployed for over a year and never got unemployment because it wasn't the other tax payers fault that I was going back to school for a while. I My friends that ride unemployment on purpose just to not work disgust me. I don't have the answer for helping people that genuinely need it, but blanket systems like this provide too much money to people who don't deserve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I'm pro choice though. Duh
Mike Judge would agree. Idiocracy = Prophecy. Imo, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzo
RE: Religion. Been doing some thinking. I was raised Catholic, so of course that makes me cynical toward religion. However, when I look back on mankind I've noticed that throughout the millennia, for whatever reason, man has found the need to "look up" at the sky and I think that comes from a sense of spirituality, and thus religion is born. The interpretation of spirituality varies from culture to culture. From the ancient Greeks and their gods, to the Egyptians, Aztecs, or any other civilization, each had (has) their own interpretation of spirituality and guidelines for how to live life. Take away the anecdotes and hyperbole within the tora, bible, koran, Egyptian Book of the Dead, etc., all religions are basically the same.
That said, I've been getting into Bhuddism, and to me it explains the universe and how it works a lot better than some book some dude wrote thousands of years ago. But hey, to each his own.
religion is the product of one (or many) wonderful part our intellect: the ability to relate things that are not overtly related. That one skill makes so much possible. Like numbers and writing. If we couldn't connect the symbol 'three' to the physical representation of three objects, we'd be no better off than the rest of the animal kingdom.
We are absolutely amazing at this one thought process. You're using it right now. It lets us talk online, while we are all separated by vast distances.
But we also do crazy shit with it. Like get paranoid and assume things that aren't true. Or come up with Gods.
I lean heavily towards Taoism with a little Bhuddism, but that's mostly about the principles and personal growth. Are you referring to explaining the universe in regards to the way people act or how things came into existence? The former I'd side a bit with, the latter I don't feel about any religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type Ryan
The former. I don't know how things came into existence, but it does blow my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
I mean, there were fucking huge dinosaurs roaming this planet. It's nuts!
Basically you just want to punish women for having sex. Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Full access to state funded abortion does so much to curtail so much of what you hate. It is actually taking full responsibility to fix a mistake.
They never should have been put in that position in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojack
Welfare queens and deadbeats disgust me. I took a job that paid less than my unemployment while I still had a lot of time left. But welfare doesn't exist to hurt person x or help person y. It is looked at as a net benefit, which is true, it is.
Life isn't perfect. Do you really want a mom that views her child as a punishment?Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
I'm adopted. You can put them up for adoption.
Aren't most public and private adoption programs completely unable to keep up with the supply of kids to adopt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojack
People who don't collect stamps are all the same. They're such arrogant assholes, and they think they're cooler and smarter than the rest of us.
I still don't quite understand how disbelieving in this means I'm agnostic. I don't have to prove it wrong to know it's the epic rantings of a crazy person.
James
To be honest? No one can say for certain yes or no. The data for it is incomplete for either side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojack
And you can't use the guardian article as that one is focused on UK adoptions ... Not US.
But I DO know that Bureaucracy is part to blame. There's so much red tape that it's cheaper AND easier to adopt from a foreign country. Hence, how myself and my sister (not blood related) were adopted from South Korea. My sister TRIED to put up a child for adoption, but was declined and then she aborted.
That pretty much tells the story right there. If they're turning people away, that means they've already got more than they can adopt out. And if that's the case now, imagine how much worse it would be if abortion was off the table.
DIY abortions! That'll show em!
well, you know how people are. For every person that gets off their butt and does the right thing, you have someone else that is too lazy to bother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
I won't explain why she was turned away.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gas
It's too depressing.
Hint: It wasn't because there weren't enough candidates.
Guys.
Guys, seriously.
Guys. This discussion made me think about the bigger picture for a minute. You know, you have to realize that every myth is a metaphor. In the case of Christianity and Judaism there exists the belief that spiritual matters are enslaved to history. The Buddhists believe that the functional aspects override the myth, while other religions use the literal core to build foundations with. See, half the world sees the myth as fact, while it's seen as a lie by the other half. The simple truth is that it's none of that. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive. In fact, for better understanding we take the facts of science and apply them. If both factors keep evolving? Then we continue getting information, but closing off possibilities makes it hard to see the bigger picture. Consider the case of the women whose faith helped her make it through. When she was raped and cut up, left for dead in a trunk, her beliefs held true. It doesn't matter if it's real or not, cause some things are better left without a doubt. I guess what I'm really trying to say is that if it works, it gets the job done; and somehow, no matter what, the world keeps turning.
So yeah. Lets teach the kids about Jesus. He rode dinosaurs and shit.
how Jung/Joseph Campbell of you
Religion will probably never die if only because the average person does not know of a healthy way to discard it. Religion serves an important function. It is like the dreams of society. And serves all of the same purposes that dreams serve. To make a shift from being connected to a dream like zeitgeist to not being connected to it, is not mentally healthy.
Secondly, many atheist never make a clean break. Some discard the God but end up embracing all of the 'evils' of the religion much like a virgin that finds out sex won't kill her, instead becomes a slut. She discards one archetype for the other. She thinks she is free, but she is still functioning from within the confines of the virgin/slut worldview. Too many discard the good and embrace much of the bad and end up worse they started.
Thirdly, nothing is replacing many of its functions. A new mother can get help with a child from her church. Where does the atheist go? Family? What if her family lives far away or they are bad terms? Her friends? Who would be better at watching your kids? Your single friends or mothers that agree with you on ethics and life? And what of Hope? Science does not give hope to the dying child. Nor is the child well read or intelligent enough to obtain hope from the philosophers. Schopenhauer's 'Will' would do him little good. And what of the difficulty caused by society no longer having a standard outlook to work against? We can't agree on anything these days, and part of that is because we no longer have that standard or default.
I do not think the majority of Americans could shift to atheism and be better for it. I think many would get stuck along the way. It would be a rare person that could discard the idea of a God but still read Psalms and use them. We can only move forward by building upon the good of the past while cutting the chains that hold us back. Too many would cut their footing while cutting those chains.
You're basically making the "where do you get your morality if not from God" argument that I think you already know is conclusively bullshit.
Continuing to convenience yourself is neither fixing a mistake nor taking responsibility for your actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojack
Again, everyone should get a first chance before anyone gets a second one.
I'll bet all the welfare dollars we waste on the working age burdens on society could solve that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojack
But imagine the money we'd have if we both didn't waste it on those people AND didn't have so many unwanted pregnancies coming to term?
If you're going to throw morality out the window, then we could save even more by eliminating all domestic spending that isn't infrastructure.
whose morality?
Good question, and it impacts a lot more than abortion.
This thread is great.
I've learned over the years to not talk about opinions on three things. It's not worth the effort. Religion, Politics and Abortion. Because everyone has their view and everyone else is wrong. It's a waste of time.
Pretty much why my only post in this thread is a joke
Atheism and evolution are none of these three.Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilMog
One out of two ain't bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
I lump them in with religion talk. Because religion will be brought up whenever the two are mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
your a brain washed moron if you think evolution is false. :)
I don't think first term abortions are immoral.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
I do think forcing a woman to have a baby she doesn't want, can't afford, didn't intend to have and so forth is completely immoral, especially if the government intervention which would outlaw abortion didn't come bundled with a comprehensive plan on what to do with the child AFTER it's born. That's great you don't want to kill a cluster of cells, but where is the outrage over child poverty and hunger?
For a man against welfare you sure do seem gung-ho to create a situation that makes it necessary.
Who you talking to?
Yosh just wants the women to be punished for having sex. That's the long and short of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Punished for having sex? You shouldn't be fucking if you aren't prepared to bring a child into the world.
Did you never have sex before you were intentionally trying to have a child?Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanX
I waited until I was old enough that I could care for a child if a pregnancy did occur. Also, I never had unprotected sex until I actually was trying to have a child.
So you were fucking, but not specifically to have a child? You expect others to act differently than you did? Even condoms have failure rates.Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanX
Also there is an enormous problem with expecting people to be responsible in the first place. Yeah, you can say shit like "don't fuck unless you want to have kids" but the kind of people who will actually listen to you didn't need the advice in the first place. The people stupid enough to have unprotected sex and not take the pill and get surprise knocked up aren't going to listen to you when you tell them to abstain. There's miles of statistics to back this up. You have to expect kids are going to fuck and aren't ready for children and you need back up plans.
When people say this I hear "I had little to no opportunity to have sex before I was able to comfortably raise a child".Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanX
So she should be forced to live with the usually unintended consequences of what you/she was doing?Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanX
This puts you in the same boat as The Yosh if you're anti-choice. If you're not then carry on.
Of course, the stupid people won't listen, and their lives will be fucked up. Too bad, they should have listened.
Sure, keep thinking that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojack
I don't think lives should be ruined just because someone fucked.
It sounds like you want births and children to be punitive.
Where is the 16 year old straight male who wasn't responsible enough to take care of a kid but was responsible enough to recognize it and turn down protected sex because of the statistical off chance a pregnancy would result?Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanX
There is no such person.
No, I want people to be responsible for their actions. Sex leads to babies, you don't want babies don't have sex. Or at the very least use birth control and condoms to minimize the risk.
Right here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
I also did that, which postponed losing my virginity for a year or two.
99.9% of sex is not about creating children. At some point in life it may end up being a desired side effect, but otherwise sex is awesome. I love it, and I expect women to love it too.
James
This thread is win. Seriously.
Then what about contraceptive failure? At that point people using protection didn't voluntarily "make their bed" and therefore should not be forced to lie in it?Quote:
Originally Posted by GohanX
Reckless teenagers aside, because reckless stupid teens are a statistical outlier right? What about a husband and wife that cannot afford a child or an additional one? They should race off to married celibacy island?
That married couple should then take steps to ensure that they don't conceive - birth control or avoiding intercourse entirely. There's much more to sex than just poking, you know.
Forgot to add in that said married couple is on rubbers or pills. Hell let's say they've had a vasectomy and a fetus rears it's undevolped head..................... then..... still no abortion? There is certainly no intent to have a child under those circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
I so want to voice my opinions on this stuff but its so fucking pointless. I don't know why people get so butt hurt over this stuff.
You're the only one making any real sense in this thread. Everyone else is just yelling at the wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilMog
The crazy guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Because they're concepts that actually affect our lives and the lives of other people. If anything, religion and politics are things people should be getting butt hurt over instead of silly things like video games and sports. You keep coming back to make posts so it seems like there's something interesting to you here, why not voice your opinion and then move on if you don't feel like debating it?Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilMog
If you're not reading anything or contributing, sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite
I find it immoral to oppose abortion. There are enough people on this planet already, that to force unwanted children to be brought forth in undesirable situations is both abusive to the individual and destructive to our race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi