You absolutly hate Nintendo, don't you?
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You absolutly hate Nintendo, don't you?
Good question... I'm actually really excited about Rayman 3 myself, I'd say we'll just have to wait and see though. I kind of doubt that any platformer due out anytime soon is going to be able to match up to Mario Sunshine. Personally I'm a big fan of the 3d platformer genre, although I will admit that as of yet it hasn't achieved the perfection of the 2d platformer genre.Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda
bbobb: Aside from the fact that I find the 3D platformer genre so oft defined by Mario 64 to be a fundamentally weak genre, will we all still care about Mario Sunshine when Tork or Blinx or Rayman 3 come out?
I also anxiously await Rayman 3, as Rayman is the best series developed outside of Japan in any non-sports genre.
I didn't like what I played of Rayman 3 at E3. The controls were poorly setup and some guy from Ubi Soft couldn't speak english and tried explaining the controls to me in french.
Not at all. I love alot of their games, especially their older ones. They aren't my favorite developer, but they're probably about 4 or 5. I like them alot, but I'm not crazy about Mario 64 or OoT, or any of the blockbuster sequels on N64 that just seemed to fall short. I do like nintendo, which is why I'm complaining that they ditched a wonderful series that I loved in favor of Mario 64. If I didn't like them to begin with I wouldn't care.Quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy Carter
You absolutly hate Nintendo, don't you?
And it doesn't bother me that people like or are excited by Sunshine. I just wonder why I'm the only one that feels like the new games don't live up to the old. Someone else has gotta be able to see this.
I can understand where you are coming from Frogacuda. While I thoroughly enjoyed Mario 64 and am currently enjoying Sunshine, I thought several of Nintendo's recent efforts have fallen short of their legacy. For instance, Zelda's OoT and MM are not up to the level of quality of LttP. F-Zero X and Star Fox 64 are also not as good as their SNES breathren. Further troubling me is Nintendo's willingness to let Rare develop some of their key titles, like Donkey Kong 64 and Star Fox Adventures. Rare is no EAD, and I don't think anyone would argue that.
Well Donkey Kong 64 is based off of Rare's 16-bit incarnations so I don't see the problem there. As long as Nintendo is making Donkey Kong Plus on GBA I'm a happy camper. I'm not too happy about letting flagship make Zelda games either... I hope Nintendo takes this opportunity to build some new franchises at least.
No, Mario 64 and TOoT are not 2D games, they are 3D *representations* of the original 8 and 16-bit incarnations. If you don't think the 3D Mario and Zelda games aren't representative of how they should be in 3D, what are some ways YOU would make them better in 3D? Give some examples. I think Mario 64 DOES feel like SMB in 3D. Jumping on Goombas in Mario 64 is just as tight as it is in the originals (except for chain jumping).
Besides, this is the first Mario game to have all the core elements of Super Mario World (riding Yoshi) outside of being 2D. You should be glad you can do cool stuff like ride on Yoshi in the action levels and be relieved that Miyamoto didn't do something lame like make Yoshi a cameo or bonus character again (which I was frothing at the mouth in anger over months ago, predicting that's what he would do, glad he proved me wrong).
But don't get me wrong, it boils my blood just as much as you that they haven't made a 2D console Mario game in years. I can't remember the source, but in an interview months ago, Miyamoto was asked if they would make any 2D GC games, and Miyamoto replied "Well, I guess you could say Luigi's Mansion is a 2D game." :rolleyes: Riggghhht.
But I think Mario 64, Sunshine and TOoT are very well crafted, fun 3D games.
They really aren't anything like the old games. You have a lifebar, enemies are retarded and there's no reason to kill them since you can just go around them and there are hardly any to begin with, and even less intimidating because you have a lifebar and a steady supply of refills. Lots of wide open spaces (Even barring the 2D plane mario levels were very linear). Levels are based primarily on exploartion and collection.Quote:
Originally posted by Kosh_H
No, Mario and TOoT are not 2D games, they are 3D *representaions* of the original 8 and 16-bit incarnations. If you don't think the 3D Mario and Zelda games aren't representative of how they should be in 3D, what are some ways YOU would make them better in 3D? Give some examples. I think Mario 64 DOES feel like SMB in 3D. Jumping on Goombas in Mario 64 is just as tight as it is in the originals (except for chain jumping).
I would have kept the action focused, kept the super/regular mario mechanism, kept the game focused on action and level design, cut back on the filler crap, etc. If you really think that 64 is a continuation of the gameplay of the original's then I don't think you really "got" the original games to begin with.
It's still FUN to kill them.Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda They really aren't anything like the old games. You have a lifebar, enemies are retarded and there's no reason to kill them...
DK 64 and JFG are games where the collection is so rediculous that I can't bring myself to play them (the most I played of DK 64 was an in store demo). The exploration in Mario 64 is simple and never over the top.Quote:
Levels are based primarily on exploartion and collection.
I would add tougher enemies and more of them but that's about it. I'd also like to see levels that mimic the 2D levels more but Sunshine's level design is much better and vaster than Mario 64's.Quote:
I would have kept the action focused, kept the super/regular mario mechanism, kept the game focused on action and level design, cut back on the filler crap, etc.
Alright, this is where I draw the line. Don't put words in my mouth and cut the "true fan" BS. You're starting to get annoying. Just because I like Mario 64 and Sunshine somehow means I don't appreciate the 2D games. :rolleyes: Yes, I like the 2D games better but Mario 64 isn't SUPPOSED to directly ape the original. Miyamoto's vision of Mario was always a character exploring a VAST world, which was his intention back in the orginal games, so when he finally got to use a 3D engine, he showed what he meant by that. Hey, I'd rather he made the levels more "2D'ish" or make an all new 2D game but Miyamoto has said in interviews that when he was a kid he would wander and explore outdoors and imagine what it would be like if there were "hidden treasure boxes in the sky above you" so it should come as no surprise that Mario 64 turned out the way it did, wandering in big fields looking for hidden stars, ect. As others said, when you make a 3D game, things change. If you want a 2D game with 3D graphics then play Klonoa. I think a balance could be struck somehow between a Klonoa engine and Mario 64, but that's not the way Miyamoto wants it so I'll just enjoy Sunshine for what it is, a game where you're supposed to explore giant areas which is fine by me as long as it doesn't feel like DK 64 or Jet Force Gemini...which it doesn't.Quote:
If you really think that 64 is a continuation of the gameplay of the original's then I don't think you really "got" the original games to begin with.
Then don't put words in my mouth. I said I have no problem if you like or even love Mario 64 or Sunshine, I think it's just important to appreciate that they have very very different appeal. You said the games feel like Mario but in 3D and I think that that's grossly innacurate. I didn't ask you to like the games any less. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to play. I just think they're really different and I have a preference for the old games. Don't get all pissy.Quote:
Originally posted by Kosh_H
Alright, this is where I draw the line. Don't put words in my mouth. You're starting to get annoying. Just because I like Mario 64 and Sunshine somehow means I don't appreciate the 2D games. :rolleyes:
I totally agree. Rayman 3 sucked at E3. I was so dissapointed too, because I love the series. I'm still gonna buy it on day one though, in the hopes that it doesn't actually suck.Quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy Carter
I didn't like what I played of Rayman 3 at E3. The controls were poorly setup and some guy from Ubi Soft couldn't speak english and tried explaining the controls to me in french.
As for Blinx topping Sunshine-1 to 1 million odds I'd say. The only developer that has shown that it can hang with EAD in the genre that EAD created is Ubi Soft.
Kinopio: Hence why I mention Tork. The rayman team split off from Ubi and are developing a new platformer called Tork. What I've seen in the trailer looks like it blows away both Rayman 2 and Sunshine.
I meant it represents Mario ELEMENTS like goomba jumping, ect. very well and with very tight control. By saying that jumping on goombas in Mario 64 feels the same, I meant that's what it should feel like after a drastic change to 3D. And read my last reply where I specifically state why Mario 64 is different from the old games. They're VAST open-ended 3D games with elements of the old games here and there. Open and shut case. Anyways, I have said all that needs to be said on this matter. I'm done.Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda You said the games feel like Mario but in 3D and I think that that's grossly innacurate.
Heh. I'm aware of what you said, and but you seemed to misunderstand me so I wast reiterating. I really don't think Mario 64 is a transformation into 3D. I think its a total reimagination at best, and an abandonment at worst. It's not the 2D/3D thing that you seem to be hung up on, it's that the spirit of the games are very different. One is focused on linear arcadey action, and the other is something different entirely. That's my bit.
Re-imagination, transformation, whatever.
If you want 2D with 3D graphics then go on ebay and find a copy of Klonoa.
Well we'll put it like this: Sonic Adventure, for all of its problems, at least recreated what I liked about the old games: It was fast, and stylish, and appropriately paced, and even though I was a little let down by all the filler and the fact that it was too easy, etc, I still felt like it appealed to me on the same level. Mario 64 just didn't capture the feel of the old games and it didn't recreate the appeal, and left me disappointed. Even if you liked it, surely you can appreciate the elemnts that are completely gone from Mario 64. Mario 64 is just way too laid back for me.Quote:
Originally posted by Kosh_H
Re-imagination, transformation, whatever.
For you. So quit trying to tell people how they should feel about Mario 64. You think they left their roots? Fine; that's your opinion and you've stressed it now, so keep it to yourself.
Mario and Sonic (originals) are two totally different games. One game makes you rely on speed and timing to get through a level, the other is much slower paced and stresses jumping and taking your time. Sonic Adventure has cool, fast pipe turns with lots of "laid back" slow platforming in the middle with the same small amount of "retarded enemies" (one of your Mario 64 complaints) here and there. There is really not much difference between it and Mario 64.Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda
Well we'll put it like this: Sonic Adventure, for all of its problems, at least recreated what I liked about the old games: It was fast, and stylish, and appropriately paced, and even though I was a little let down by all the filler and the fact that it was too easy, etc, I still felt like it appealed to me on the same level. Mario 64 just didn't capture the feel of the old games and it didn't recreate the appeal, and left me disappointed. Even if you liked it, surely you can appreciate the elemnts that are completely gone from Mario 64. Mario 64 is just way too laid back for me.
Ease up, pal. I said repeatedly that I don't think there's anything wrong with liking the game. I was just hoping someone might understand why I don't like it as much instead of freaking attacking me or calling me a Nintendo hater. Jesus. I'm entitled to my opinion, and even if you liked the game you should be able to see where I'm coming from.Quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy Carter
For you. So quit trying to tell people how they should feel about Mario 64. You think they left their roots? Fine; that's your opinion and you've stressed it now, so keep it to yourself.
I agree. Ease up on Frog, Carter. He just likes the old Mario games better (as do I of course).
I can, but your opinion is sounding like an order; you refuse to let us say that we indeed think that Mario 64 is a great game and a great continuation of the Mario series. I don't care if you don't like it. I've seen many people who don't like it. But that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy the game and that I'm not entitled to my opinion on it. You repeatedly keep telling people how they should view Mario 64; I don't give a rat's crapper what you think about the game. If you thought it was the worst game ever, I wouldn't care the slightest; I just get uppity when I'm told, repeatedly, how I should view a game; or how I'm wrong for viewing a game a certain way.
I can see how you'd imagine it to be a departure, and I don't care, it's fine by me; I accepted that when the argument began. But you should also be content with accepting the fact that I, and many others, view the game not only as a landmark title, but one that continues and pushes along, a great series.
The pace and feel were totally different, especially if you played Sonic for A emblems. It was alot of glitz and flash, pretty linear with a few forks in the road. Always moving, always running ahead. Pretty much the same ton a and feel as the old Sonics.Quote:
Originally posted by Kosh_H
There is really not much difference between it and Mario 64.
The old mario games were VERY linear, much more so than even sonic. They were VERY narrow, and focused more on finding the subtleties of the level and working through gauntlets of obstacles than any kind of exploration. There wasn't much of that in 64 at all. It was a really open game with alot of backtracking, and not much real action.
I don't even mean this to say that Sonic Adventure was a better game than Mario 64 (though I did feel compelled to play it more) I just think it captured the spirit of its parent better.
I've been on the defensive here, and you know it. I honestly like Mario 64, I just don't love it. I repeatedly stressed that I don't mean this to sound like anyone should like the game less. And I said that repeatedly. And you still act like I'm a jackass for missing all the core elements of gameplay that we lost in the "transition". I don't care if you never gave a shit about those things, but you know they were there and aren't now, and that I like them, so what the hell is you objection? You say you want me to acknowledge that it's ok to like the game when I said that explicitly no less than 5 times! URGH! I hate how it's all or nothing with alot of Nintendo fans. If I'm not praising every aspect of their games I'm "bashing" them. It seems especially silly when I'm only making a relativistic statement agianst another Nintendo game.Quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy Carter
I can, but your opinion is sounding like an order.
My Nintendo "hate" comment was a bit far, sorry about that. It's just seeming like you won't accept the fact that someone loves the game and considers it a continuation. Your comment "If you really think that 64 is a continuation of the gameplay of the original's then I don't think you really "got" the original games to begin with" verifies the fact that you won't accept the fact that I consider it a continuation. I played every Mario game. I "got" them.
Now, I'm sorry if I've made an ass of myself. I don't like to do so. I accept and acknowledge the fact that you do not think that Mario was better than the 2D games; that's perfectly fine, doesn't bother me a bit. I'm just saying that I have the opposite opinion, and you yourself stated that people who do not share your opinion did not "get" the original games. And that is why I made an ass of myself; not a justification, just reason. No justifying for me getting all bent out of shape.
Well let's just say then that if you think the Mario 64 games are a continuation of the original 2D games then you didn't get the same thing out of those games that I did. Is that better? That's really all I meant by that statement in the first place.
Every mario game has had retarded enemies.
Yeah but in the 2D ones you had to actually confront them to avoid them. It's not like mario 64 where they're basically just pylons that you can run around.Quote:
Originally posted by stormy
Every mario game has had retarded enemies.
I just see all the Mario games as platformers. Frog, you seem to focus on the enemy encounters, and I don't think that is what Mario is all about. I beleive the essence of Mario is the great level design and doing your best to jump from one platform to the other. While the enemies in the 2D games do come at you more, they are still in the 3D games to impeed your progress. Comparing the 2D Mario games to other 2D games and the new Mario games to other 3D games, I think they both achieve the same amount of greatness with what they can do.
There is no way EAD could have made a 3D mario game that plays like the 2D ones. It just wouldn't work. Same thing with games like Ninja Gaiden. why do you think the xbox ninja gaiden is going to be more like a beat'em up? Zelda is a different story, because it was always designed with a 3D feel. If you can't appreciate the greatness of Mario 64 because you're stuck on how different it is from the 2D mario's, then thats your loss.
I always felt as though mario was a mixed bag. (just about all the games) A combination of an obstacle course that needed to be negotiated using pixel perfect timing and placement, an adventure because of the sheer size of the mario world and the variety of terrain (mountains, water, icy, cavernous etc), and an action game because of the interaction with objects (shells to throw at rows of enemies, powerups to fire projectiles, capes to fly, dinosaurs to eat, invincibility stars to chain point combos together and finish the level at high speed etc etc)
Along with this, there were always the puzzle elements like trying to get enough of a certain object to complete a non-compulsory task which unlocks a new area and seamlessly rewards you with special items and new levels.(without blatantly having to tell you this on the back of the box or as a sales pitch, of course.)
Really, mario games should never be defined by 1 specific game genre. It's a mixed bag. Saying it's lost what made it so great is saying more about yourself than the mario games.
Which brings me to rayman 1 & 2: This game is overhyped. It's too linear, the physics are too wooden and don't feel dynamic enough to allow for subtle steering or control of the character, (platforming should be about skill, not patience. You have to almost feel connected to your character when you control it and that the character has a wieght to it.) the majority of the levels uses tried and tested platform game formulas. It was also slow. Rayman can't do all the cool things other characters can do like run, jump, duck, slide, and combine these moves together to test your reflexs and ability to react to a dynamic, changing environment with the correct sequence of buttons, like just about every other platformer does.
It was a a case of walking slowly through an area, admiring the scenary and finding the walls that defined the boundary of that level, then just shooting the odd enemy from afar and moving on to the next area. (the areas never interrelated to each other or were interconnected through alternate courses. Eg you couldn't do super lengthy jumps at high speed and velocity to totally avoid an obstacle, you had to go through plod though an obstacle the same way every time using the same method, and using no brain power or creativity to pass it by.)
You couldn't do things differently to get through the levels and there was virtually no replayability of going through it again. I like to be able to test my limits in a platform game world. If I see an ledge which is too high, I like to combine moves together to see if I can make it using skill or brains or technique, not have it predefined or only there because it is part of the sceneary and there's only 1 solution to get to it. (I also like to be rewarded for it. Maybe there is some item hidden on that ledge that I can't quite see the first time, that once discovered, totally surprises me and solves one of my earlier problems. There may even be other goals to consider and more effiecient ways to beat that obstacle, using other means.)
There was virtually no challenge (not difficulty, - although there wasn't that much of that either - , but playful challenge that gets you excited when you get the chance to really play with the virtual playground. I didn't get that with rayman 2. A challenge is like something that tempts your limits to see how far you can take them. eg. -how many enemies you can jump on to get to a higher, hard-to-access platform, without falling or making mistakes,
-how fast can you get though a level, without dying.
-How many enemies/turtles can you kill with 1 shell without getting hit by the object when it rebounds off a wall?
..You know, all these little things that make for a very dynamic and interactive environment that brings some life to the play area and adds a little controlled choas to the game.
The only thing I liked that much about it was the graphical style of the world and the animation of the characters. It was pretty average in gameplay and the design of levels was only ok. You can say it was a fun game that doesn't break any moulds and/or pretend to be something other than what it is, but that's it. Which is probably a good thing for people who only want to get a specific thing out of a game.
But anyway I like my games to challenge a combination of things at once so that you think about them on different levels. This is the key that makes a good platformer so replayable imo. Your not doing only 1 thing at any 1 time, your thinking about what else must be done amoungst all the chaos of trying to reach the end of the level. Although the goals seem like a means to end, you are having so much fun, you often forget about the main exit. A lot of what's lost in platformers is that sense of losing yourself in the world and letting the player adapt his style of play to his interests. Most designers are very greedy and force you through an area for a specific singular purpose, overlooking the fact that the designer can interact with the player through the open-endedness of his level design and treating the player as a freethinking, mischievous little child who just wants to fool around on a virtual playground because of the fun of it. If you start to take platformers too serious and 1 goal-oriented, you distance yourself too much from the element of the game environment's playfullness and it becomes too much like a difficult obstacle course with repetitive gameplay and no self-absorbing qualities or creative empowerment.
Also one of the reasons mario 64 was so easy was because it was the first game to use the analogue stick or something and shiggy didn't want to make the game too hard for people because of the new control method and movment in a 3d environment for the first time. I remember reading this a long time ago in a mag. Anyway isn't SMS supposed to be a bit harder than SM64? Remember mario isn't exactly designed for the hardcore or anything. They want to appeal to as many skill ranges as possible. I reckon it would do well if nintendo made a harder version of a 3d mario game as a quicker follow up to SMS. Kind of like what zelda Majora's mask was to toot in difficulty and strictness in rules. (but then people would complain it was too hard and not fitting of the mario mould and say it was not as fun and shun it or something. :D) Hint to nintendo: we aren't living in the cartridge era anymore so more regular releases and follow-ups to established favourites would be more readily acceptable than in the past. It took 6 years for this, now that the engine is done they could just borrow from SMS and re-use that for the sequel instead of making us wait a whole new console generation. (maybe that's what the gc wario is for. ;) )
I played for a few hours tonight, and I had a blast. I can't remember the last time I had this much fun with a game. You know a game is good when you want to play it every free minute you have, and when you aren't playing it, you're thinking about it in your head.
I'm having a bit too much fun with SMS. I played until 1 am last night and as such over slept and waslate to summer school this morning. Opps.Quote:
really
Sounds like what happened to me when I first got Mario 64. Looks like I'm going into hibernation... and I was hoping to get OUT of hibernation after Warcraft III. :DQuote:
Originally posted by Kinopio
I played for a few hours tonight, and I had a blast. I can't remember the last time I had this much fun with a game. You know a game is good when you want to play it every free minute you have, and when you aren't playing it, you're thinking about it in your head.
35 Shines and still going... man this game is fucking incredible. Everyone must buy this... I'm going on 5 hours of sleep now because I couldn't turn the damned thing off...
SHINE GET!!!!!!!!
Sunhine is really different than any other Mario game ever. It feels to me to be considerably edgier and tougher than any other previous games, although in difficulty it seems on par with The Lost Levels. The water pack just adds so much to the game, and I'm saying this after only about 14 shines. Truly an amazing game.
Sunshine is definately tough, I had a couple of story's that had me ready to throw my wavebird across the room last night... and I'm not even a third of the way through the shines yet.
I have to chime in here and agree that Mario 64 was a waste of a game. Mediocre in every sense of the word with about a fourth of the fun of the 8 and 16 bit games and none of that intangible magic. The enemies were placeholders at best, and the game boiled down to "can you wrestle with the 3D ness of it all and make Mario not walk himself off the ledge?". Why so many people love it, I'll never know. It was at least as much of a screw up as Yoshi's Story was.
Still, I have my Sunshine reserved and paid for, so here's to hoping.
:lol: No, I wasn't focusing on just that. IT's that the old games were linear arcade plaformers, and the later games are these slow, open, laid back games full of backtracking and empty space that just don't appeal to me. The enemies are only one example of that. Others would be the fact that every time you kill one of the pylon/enemies you get heath, so the vulnerability and desire to keep your super status is shot to hell. Really everything about the game is just geared completely differently. What you're saying is akin to saying Metroid and Contra are the same kind of game. Alot of the same parts are there, but the way it plays out couldn't be more different.Quote:
Originally posted by Green
I just see all the Mario games as platformers. Frog, you seem to focus on the enemy encounters, and I don't think that is what Mario is all about.
That much I am glad to hear. While I still prefer arcade-style action, at least providing a good challenge is consolation. If the flow of action is good, too, then I will be very happy.Quote:
Originally posted by AFX
Sunhine is really different than any other Mario game ever. It feels to me to be considerably edgier and tougher than any other previous games, although in difficulty it seems on par with The Lost Levels. The water pack just adds so much to the game, and I\'m saying this after only about 14 shines. Truly an amazing game.
*semi-spoilers*Quote:
Originally posted by bbobb
Sunshine is definately tough, I had a couple of story's that had me ready to throw my wavebird across the room last night... and I'm not even a third of the way through the shines yet.
Same. The red coin story in Mamma Beach in particular fucked with me bad. It never occured to me to keep riding the bird. I had figured that when he tilted all the way to one side, that was a hint that you should have them all by that point. It just seemed like am amazingly bastardly thing coming from a Mario game to actually have to finesse your way up his neck so that you didn't fall. A lot of the levels where you lose your water pack are extremely painful too. If they're this hard already it hurts to think what they'll be like later in the game.
Heh, if you think Mamma Beach is bad, wait till you see some of the shit in Pinna Park... ouch. Yeah the no water pack parts are hard... but I also think they're some of the best parts of the game. They just feel old school, challenging and rewarding when you finally accomplish it.Quote:
Originally posted by AFX
*semi-spoilers*
Same. The red coin story in Mamma Beach in particular fucked with me bad. It never occured to me to keep riding the bird. I had figured that when he tilted all the way to one side, that was a hint that you should have them all by that point. It just seemed like am amazingly bastardly thing coming from a Mario game to actually have to finesse your way up his neck so that you didn't fall. A lot of the levels where you lose your water pack are extremely painful too. If they're this hard already it hurts to think what they'll be like later in the game.
Sure, the early Mario games were linear, but that doens't mean there was tons of exploration. Hidden clouds, levels that pop up only when certain tasks have been completed, hidden items, warp zones, and secret blocks all made those games adventure games. I think what it all comes down to is that I appreciate Miyamoto's work on 64 as much as I do on the early Mario games. Frog, how would you have a 3D Mario game?
Yeah, I'm on story 5 of Pinna. Pain in the ass. And you're right, very old school, take no prisoners game all around.Quote:
Originally posted by bbobb
Heh, if you think Mamma Beach is bad, wait till you see some of the shit in Pinna Park... ouch. Yeah the no water pack parts are hard... but I also think they're some of the best parts of the game. They just feel old school, challenging and rewarding when you finally accomplish it.
I already answered this question on this thread, but one more time, just for the hell of it:Quote:
Originally posted by Green
Frog, how would you have a 3D Mario game?
I would have kept the super mario mechanic, and removed the halth bar and restored super Mushrooms. I would have kept the level design mostly oriented twords obstacle guantlets of some sort, jumping puzzles, secrets, and such. I would have removed all the fetch quests, collection questss, races, coins for any other purpose than score/extra lives. More secrets of the old variety. Level design that wouldn't require back-tracking. And I'd make Mario from Brooklyn again, because the italian accent pisses me off :)
Man I really hated that one. That was the one time that I ran into some serious camera trouble... it really pissed me off.Quote:
Originally posted by AFX
Yeah, I'm on story 5 of Pinna. Pain in the ass. And you're right, very old school, take no prisoners game all around.
That's the one where you have to climb up the fences right? Yeah the camera really fucks you up on that one. But you learn to live with it.
At 64 shines right now, there's a few shines that have made me turn off the machine in disgust, but I went right back to it a few minutes later. So far there's only one Shine I got stuck on (Sirena Beach 3) but I attribute that to a WTF-ness factor. Honestly, I'm not finding the game to be overtly difficult as advertised...sure a few stumbling blocks here and there, but nothing that can't be nabbed with a few tries.
Can't put it down though. The last game that had me this addicted was MGS2, but the craptacular story left a bitter taste in my mouth on that one.
You mean like the Bowser levels in SM64?Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda
I would have kept the super mario mechanic, and removed the halth bar and restored super Mushrooms. I would have kept the level design mostly oriented twords obstacle guantlets of some sort,
What's a "jumping puzzle?"? Do you mean making the game more of a platform to platform jumping game? I think the carpet ride level is a perfect example of it.Quote:
jumping puzzles,
The fetch quests were only necessary to the point that you needed extra stars like the red coins. Was there anything else?Quote:
secrets, and such. I would have removed all the fetch quests, collection questss, races, coins for any other purpose than score/extra lives. More secrets of the old variety. Level design that wouldn't require back-tracking. And I'd make Mario from Brooklyn again, because the italian accent pisses me off :)
I actually would've recommended that this game backtrack more and have some stages affected others but there was really nothing like that in this game. I liked the penguin races though.
My main complaint was a lack a enemies. The game was more focused on exploration and less on classic Mario enemies. A variety in bosses would've been nice too although fighting with Bowser wasn't so bad.
Since when was Mario from Brooklyn? Last time I checked, the games never had much of a backstory. Picturing Mario with an American accent is painful.
Other than the guy Mario was named after being from NYC, and the Motion Picture taking place in Brooklyn, Mario's ties all lead to the Mushroom Kingdom, not Brooklyn.
As for the difficulty, I think its good. I hate the shines that I get on the first try in the first 2 minutes. I much prefer the ones I have to work for. Its not difficult because of poor control or gameplay design. The goal is always right in front of you, you just need to be good enough to get to it.
Heeeey. Whaddaya think ya doin' kidnappin' that girl like that? What da hell is a matta wit you? Ya brain dead or somethin'? Get outta here.Quote:
Originally posted by NeoZeedeater
Since when was Mario from Brooklyn? Last time I checked, the games never had much of a backstory. Picturing Mario with an American accent is painful.
[possible spoilers
Has anyone else gone back into one of the old-schoolish platforming levels after beating it? You have to get 8 red coins in a very unreasonable amount of time. This and the hidden shines really detracts from the game in my opinion.
[/possible spoilers]
[For Yoshi, spoilers]
I've gone into the levels again, and yes, a pain in the butt, but terribly rewarding in my opinion. Tough as nails but oh, what a rush when you finally beat them.
[/For Yoshi, spoilers]
If you had to get them all to finish the game I would agree with you, but since you don't, it's just Nintnedo adding some challenge to the game. I don't see the problem.Quote:
Originally posted by Yoshi
[possible spoilers
Has anyone else gone back into one of the old-schoolish platforming levels after beating it? You have to get 8 red coins in a very unreasonable amount of time. This and the hidden shines really detracts from the game in my opinion.
[/possible spoilers]
I don't see it as a problem either. I finished the game yesterday, though obviously without all the shines, and I can't say overall that it as difficult as I was anticipating. Now I can leisurely go back and collect all the remaining shines, if they're hidden and mad hard, so be it.
How many shines are there? All this positve Mario talk is getting me anxious.
Story 8. Ricco harbor. Jesus Christ. Maybe I'm just dumb. Its the one where you have to somehow get Yoshi up to the top of these platforms she he can get the yellow stuff off of a box containing a shine. How the hell do you get Yoshi that high up? Is there some means of levatating Yoshi that I am unaware of. Any assistance in this would be great. I'm loving Sunshine so far...
I think you have to somehow shoot the fishes with juices and they turn into platforms. Then ride the platforms to the shine and spray it with juices. I need to do this level myself, but that is what I read. Just remember Yoshi doesn't like to swim hehe
Thanks alot. One more question. When you say, "that's what i read", what exactly are you referring to? Is there a walkthrough or some sort of guide anywhere. Something that could be used as a reference material? Either way, thanks alot.Quote:
Originally posted by Takumi
I think you have to somehow shoot the fishes with juices and they turn into platforms. Then ride the platforms to the shine and spray it with juices. I need to do this level myself, but that is what I read. Just remember Yoshi doesn't like to swim hehe
He was originally named and remodled after Nintendo of America's landlord, an man named Mario who was an Italian-American from Brooklyn. That was how he was interpreted in the old cartoon show and movie as well and pretty much how I understood him to be until Mario 64 came out. Obviously it wasn't "official" but that was the popular understanding for a long time.Quote:
Originally posted by NeoZeedeater
Since when was Mario from Brooklyn? Last time I checked, the games never had much of a backstory. Picturing Mario with an American accent is painful.
It's-a me! Stereotype-a. Hello! Lets-a go!Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda
He was originally named and remodled after Nintendo of America's landlord, an man named Mario who was an Italian-American from Brooklyn. That was how he was interpreted in the old cartoon show and movie as well and pretty much how I understood him to be until Mario 64 came out. Obviously it wasn't "official" but that was the popular understanding for a long time.
Here you go, this is taken straight from a post on GameFAQs:
Ricco Harbor 8 Tips
Butt-stompt the center of each fruit stack until you get a matching fruit for yoshi
Take the fruit to Yoshi-he should be purple
Use purple yoshi to juice the first fish.It will turn into a purple platform
Ride the purple platform to the first metal tower-jump to the metal tower.
Next to the tower is a green platform(has a palm tree)-jump to it.
Jump up while using your tomgue-you will eat a new fruit.yoshi will be pink.
Jump back to the metal tower.
Use pink yoshi juice on the rest of the fish.They will turn into raising platforms.
Just juice fish-ride raising platform-jump to new metal tower-repeat this procedure until you make it to the top.
At the top juice the yellow wavy thing.
Jump off yoshi and Shine Get(#8 Ricco Harbor)
Hope this helps
Thanks a lot, it does help. I was getting as far as the second or third platform but because I wasn't really sure of Yoshi's different functions based upon color, I didn't think to go pink. Thanks a bunch. 37 shines and counting.
Here's an even easier way to get that shine-
Get Yoshi- but you were going to do that anyway.
create a platform out of a fish for the first platform.
twirl jump to the second.
twirl-jump to the third (I think? maybe not but I'm pretty sure)
make yourself a platform to the fourth.
make another platform, and twirl jump from it up to the shine platform.
That isn't exact since I don't have the game on right now, but the point is that for most of the time you can twirl jump instead of fretting about platforms. Don't forget to ride one of the platforms of to the left and get the blue coin by the tree on the ledge over there.
And for Yoshi: Seriously? There was plenty of hidden stuff in Mario 64, hell, in all the games. Only adds to it in my opinion. don't you ever just like to relax around Dolphic Island seeing whats what? I agree that completing those "where's my backpack" levels a second time is hard as hell but it's a challenge, I welcome that. Like Yamcha said- those who just want to finish and be done with it are quite welcome to do so. Personally, I'd rather get Yoshi on those boats out to the island.
(**********How to get 99 lives****************)
Well, it seems so, anyway. On Dolphic island, directly across from the island with a tree and a lady islander with a basket there's a 1up underwater. It's pretty out in the open and easy to see, in a little alcove in the wall. every time you come back out of a level it reappears. So any time you're hard up, you know.
**Rise From Your Grave**
Just thought I'd give this one a bump. I'm gearing up for the domestic release and I thought others may be as well.
JM
Justed played the demo, and I think this thing exceeded all my expectations. Yeah, i only played for 10 minutes, but when i get that 'special' gaming feeling I never go back. Holy shit.
Honestly, right when I grabbed the controller and moved mario 5 feet, i was like "holy shit this is the greatest game ive played in a while". Tight as fuck, intuitive controls.
I hope its REALLY damn hard. Like monkey ball master level hard (which hopefully I will acheive in a day or so).
arise, ye dead thread
Bumped to embarass Victrix for making the same thread.
Joy joy joy joy yoj joy...but I got to wait a few hours before I can play it again *shakes fist*.
I was just thinking how you could compare this game to Yoshi's Island and Mario 64 to Super Mario World. While 64 and World were pure Mario games, Island and Sunshine have certain themes. Plus, alot of the action is based on a shooting gimmick.
I just want to get back to it!
bumped to embarass kaneda for bumping after I bumped it and deleted my thread
bump!
I'm 20 shines and 70 blues in, it's freaking sweet.
Ho ho ho.
Saw the game in action today and it looked pretty, but I still don't want to play the thing.
its rediculously fun
but I'm in a platforming type of mood, and I haven't played better than this
in fact, I think I'll go play more now ;)
Geez, I just got it today. Took it over to my girl friend's house and we were all in gaming heaven. They were all blown away and we all just say around taking turns having a blast. It's about time a game like this came out. I hope I can keep up on my homework over the next few weeks. What do you guys think about that water? Cool looking shit if you ask me.
got it today the game OWNS plain and simple
It's awesome! The water pack is so innovative and cool. Anybody who says the graphics and gameplay aren't improved much over Mario 64 should be brutally beaten (I cannot believe the overcritical, pathetic and insanely tedious fanboy flame wars being waged over this game over on forums like Gaming Age and Xengen's War Room). The vastness of the levels is overwhelming at times (in a GOOD way). And being able to see far into the distance is sweet and erases painful memories of all the fog and crap draw distance of the N64 era.. And as kbuchanan said, the water and liquid effects are amazingly fluid. I can't wait to get Yoshi! I heard people who preordered were supposed to get a Mario themed water gun (I didn't get one at my EB and the guy didn't know anything about it...). Can anyone confirm this?
It's different. It's a really strange combination of elements that forms, I dunno what. I'm not complaining, just commenting. I haven't formed any real opinion yet (what with my whole 3 shines).
To me the music in Bianco Hills sounds like it's straight out of Zelda OOT.
Weeeeeeeeee! I'm having a great time with this one. Last platformer I played was probably...Rayman 2 on Dreamcast. And it's been a really long time since I've played Mario 64, so this is all that much better. I've seen the first 3 levels (I have 9 shines) and I must say that the remix for the original Mario Bros. theme (when you go for the shines after Evil Mario takes your water pack) is so bad ass it made me smile while I played.
I see a carnival on an island in the distance, I can't wait till I get there! And let it be known that the Wavebird, indeed rocks.
4 more hours into it and I'm in love. The water, the return of some of the old baddies and the bosses...joy.
Can't wait to really dig into this game tomorrow.
I'm impressed so far. I'm thinking the critics are a bit jaded, but what do I know.
My thoughts are here, but they're nothing most of you wouldn't already know.
This game is so sweet, it makes my nipples all hard and leaky.....Seriously.
Just got my 10th Shine.
I was a tad disappointed until I got to "Down with Peter Piranha"; then I realized how damn cool this water pump really is.
On top of that, this game is damn challenging. From the difficulty level I've faced so far, my mouth is foaming thinking of the possibilities that lie ahead.
I'm glad someone finally remembered to put platform elements into a 3D platformer.
A wonderful game so far that seems to actualy fix all the gripes I had about Super Mario 64.
Odd, I thought I heard some people complaining about the water pack being a gimmick yet the game I played relied heavily on it for it's game mechanics to work perfectly. In all honesty I haven't controled a character in a platformer like this in a long time. Mario is a dream to control, the last thing I did was the second fight with the Petey where we battle it out in the village and all I can say is "WOW". This game far surpasses my expectations, I mean one of the things that dissapointed me in Mario 64 were the boss fights yet here I am not even 12 shines in and I've had to fight three awesome bosses with great patterns.
On a last note I'd just like to mention how fun it is to run straight shooting water in front of me and then hitting the B button to slide in the puddle I just made. It's a dream to control.
D
Hey
I got mine yesterday! It has been too long since we've seen a 3D platformer with level design this good. I'm totally hooked & smiling all the way through. I loved the sand castle level.
I've got 13 shines so far & I'm quite pleased with the difficulty. I can hardly imagine getting everything on the Sand bird level.
JM
I spent two hours on the Harbor hub alone when I first started playing. I picked up about five shines before even entering the first level. The best is when I had to kick the durian (the spiky soccer ball fruit) to the lady with the basket. Really, really fun.
I played through about 2 hours so far, and am pleased. However, I must mention some complaints- because complaints are more interesting than praise :)
1) Fewer moves for Mario- the removal of a crouch removed some of my favorite SM64 moves: the butt slide, the sweep kick, and the crawl. The removal of the punches and kicks also disappointed me.
2) Textures- this is a common complaint. I think many of these textures look too low-res. They seem too N64 for my tastes.
* complaint mode: OFF *
*still waiting for his Sunshine to ship from Nintendo* :)
OMG this game is sweet. I am SOOO thankful I didn't ditch my Gamecube. I knew I had to see what Mario would bring. And now I think I've gaurenteed myself a Gamecube for the next 5 months, seeing as how thats probably how long my brothers will be playing it.
So far I'm not experiencing that. I think the controls will take some getting used to. I have no idea why but my mind keeps wanting to use the C-stick to control the water pump. So far I think I'd have to say I prefer the N64's C buttons for camera control over the C-stick.Quote:
Originally posted by dyomides
It's a dream to control.
And what's with the B to flip vertical gates, A to flip horizontal gates from below and butt stomping to flip them from above? Seems overly complex, especially coming from Miyamoto. The second level (with the squids) is taking some getting used to as well.
Once the control becomes second nature, I'm pretty sure I'll be loving this game.
I had some weird gate-flippy problems as well. Nothing chaps my ass like getting really, really, reeeeeeeeeeally high up climbing a gate, and then pushing the wrong button to flip and dropping aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall the way down.
I hate that. Beware the "Shine in a Cage" level.
Yeah, after the third time through that damn level & falling a third time I had to give it up & go to bed last night.
JM
Funny, I didn't have any problems controlling him. As for the gates problem I didn't have any problem adjusting since it was never done in 3D before I wasn't used to doing it a certain way. I know the reason why it's the B button to flip a cage vertically is so you can also use the A button to jump away to a crane or platform, all makes sense so far. Then when your upside down it's similar to hanging off a ledge or a rope and B is used to let go so they used A instead since you can't jump for anything when your hanging horizontally. As for the butt stomp it made sense to me since you butt stomp to go down the warp.
Don't know, maybe I'm the only one not having any problems. And I like the camera system in Sunshine more cause it takes me less then a second to reajust exactly where I want it compared to Mario 64 I needed a few button presses before it was where I wanted it.
I mean in the second stage I was wall jumping for coins on the thin platform way up high without falling down once. If I fell it was due to my poor judgement or wrong nozzle on the pump.
D
Although I'm only a couple hours into Sunshine, I can't help but be slightly disappointed. Maybe it's because I expected it to be insta-GOTY, like Super Mario 64 was for me. Don't get me wrong, I still love the game and recommend it.
The wonders of Sunshine. Jak and Daxter was a platformer, but the stuff Sunshine wants you to do is like the uber platformer. Getting all 8 red coins at the carnival was a pain in the ass, but the rollercoaster fight was a lot of fun. I also love the way they made the explosions for the bullet bill's (in "the cannons secret"). Looks like some cell shaded inspiration for Zelda came from Sunshine.
Anyone fet to the squid boss? Was it me, or was that really violent? Sure no blood, but you're ****SPOILER*** ripping off his tentacles! ***End Spoiler***
My biggest complaint right now is the camera, it's freaked out on me a few times.
Ah yup, that'd be it (Luigi's Mansion connection that is).
I also think when you hit Y, you should still be able to control the camera with the c stick.
These are minor nitpicks, but sometimes little changes can go a long way. I think more thought could have been put into the control scheme.
Is it me or does the voice of the pump sound like Martin (from the Simpsons)? Another thing, those wooden boats remind me of the one seen in the Zelda preview.
I want to get back and roll some watermelons!
As did I, not knowing the reason I was zoomed all the way out. OH, the bloody C-stick.Quote:
Originally posted by Gongos
the yellow stick controlled the poltergeist 2000's aiming(luigi's mansion, which you probably played before.), i did the same thing.
if you pay close attention, I think the textures are supposed to look blotchy. Almost like watercolor paints. Why do I say that? Because if you pay attention at the non-organic materials (like stone walkways and metal and the like), there's much bump-mapping to be seen. It's and odd visual mix really...so much 3D flair, traditional art style toches (like how all the characters seem to be shaded in watercolor washes), and some semi-cel shaded stuff. It's real interesting, and for me it's a grand combination.
Oh wait, I haven't filled my required one-bitch per post yet, huh? Oh well.
Likewise.Quote:
Originally posted by Hero
for me it's a grand combination.
Kev, is that your Pikmin letter in the new EGM?
non. I've never written to EGM in my life.
Just checking. It was a good hearted letter from a Kevin, with Hero as an E-mail. Must have been the parrellel you.
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat......?
Now I'm very interested. Who's shadowing as me? Or who sent something I said to EGM? What was the e-mail addy, if I may ask?