Remake Culture

TLOU Remastered. Halo: Master Chief Collection. Ico / Shadow of the Colossus HD collection. Trilogies of Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper, Ratchet & Clank, God of War, and Devil May Cry - all remastered. Journey released for PS4 with updated graphics about thirty minutes after the original PS3 release (year and a half, who's counting).

One year later, GTAV released with minor upgrades (aside from "landbreaking" 1st person mode) across all platforms with a higher entry price.

Point being, lot of games are being remade today. That's obvious. What's more interesting is what the hardcore market (i.e. you) makes of all of this.

I'm torn. I love revisiting older games with updated visuals, and too often feel like I'm not spending enough time with my favorite games in favor of marching onto the next title in the ole backlog. Thus, HD remakes are a great opportunity to revisit those favorites.

Same time, I'd prefer these high profile developers known for producing AAA material focus on AAA sequels, if not all new IP entirely.

At the end of the day I love to hate remake culture. I wish it wasn't around, but I'm buying Majora's Mask 3D day 1.

If the question is, would I rather A) play Half-Life 2 rendered on the latest Crytek engine w/ most updated PC graphics, or B) inseminate Angelina Jolie on a daily basis for the rest of my life, I would opt for B). Just barely though. I'm open to dissenting opinion re: Jolie boning v. GOAT in HD.

In closing: worthless if not bloodborne

I told people we were going to get remakes of games really close to today, and we'll get remakes of remakes

but I was scoffed at

There are remakes that I really want to see (and are imminent or realistic) though:

Motorstorm Collection HD
Gears of War Collection HD

I'd kill for a PGR or Rallisport Collection, but those aren't happening

(I guess I should say 'remasters', whatever)

It's kind of sad. Gamers used to bemoan that the industry was full of sequels that made minimal or negligible changes to the original game. Now we're at the point where developers simply reproduce that original game, with no notable changes besides graphics. I wonder how things could possibly get worse from here, sure they will though.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

we'll get remakes of remakes

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Yes, we will.

GOod games are good, I'd rather play a great game at HFR and 1080p than get a bunch of this dumb ass shit we get now

My argument is, if we already bought the original game at full retail, shouldn't we be allowed to upgrade to the remaster for free or a nominal fee? I don't like the idea of paying for one game 2+ times.

I don't give a damn, I have an nVidia Shield

im rich bitch

(however, this discount is becoming a very common practice in the PC space, moreso with non-uberblockbusters)

Don't get me wrong, I'm rich

I would just rather feel I'm not getting hoodwinked, and allocate my funds for top shelf whiskey imho

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Originally Posted by Tyler_Durden

My argument is, if we already bought the original game at full retail, shouldn't we be allowed to upgrade to the remaster for free or a nominal fee? I don't like the idea of paying for one game 2+ times.

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This already happens some on PC. The Metro games are a very recent example.

That's really cool.

I own Macs and consoles so I was unaware. Appreciate the heads up Yosh

It's certainly not automatic. I just looked, and they're not doing it with Sleeping Dogs, although the new one is only $30 anyway.

It is fairly commonplace on PC. The recent remake of Binding of Isaac was cheaper if you had the original tied to your Steam account.

We've been getting widescreen/HD fan patches, remakes and mods for classic games on PC for years now, which are almost always free (for example, pretty much every forum for every game on GOG has a stickied mod guide at the top). I can't really gripe too much about this practice being more expensive on consoles since I own about a million different versions of the Ys games and any re-release of Final Fantasy SE kicks my way, but it does make me glad I held off on the Xbone and PS4 when I see how much of their respective libraries are comprised of remakes.

Edit: Especially since the PC equivalent of these "upgrades" is increasing the graphics settings from low to medium.

This stuff is shit. A complete waste of time. I'm down with the ps2/Xbox remasters, but these PS3->ps4 is worthless. The problem is that there are a lot of dumb people out there. If someone asks them what they want to see from Naughty Dog on PS4, they will actually say TLOU Remastered instead of a new fucking game. If this is what we have to look forward to every gen, a bunch of remasters, I'm done. This is the same shit that studios have been peddling. How many times have they released Terminator 2?

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

I told people we were going to get remakes of games really close to today, and we'll get remakes of remakes

but I was scoffed at

There are remakes that I really want to see (and are imminent or realistic) though:

Motorstorm Collection HD
Gears of War Collection HD

I'd kill for a PGR or Rallisport Collection, but those aren't happening

(I guess I should say 'remasters', whatever)

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Motorstorm was crap the first time.

I'm all for older games frequently getting re-released so people have access to playing them. Actually remaking them is usually unnecessary, though.

Remakes have been around since the beginning, we just called them 'ports' and they happened closer to the original release.

If it's what these companies need to do to recoup costs on bigger projects or fund newer ones then go ahead. I imagine the profit per dollar spent on these is pretty high, so it's just good business.

Most of the big 'licensed engine' games are designed to be scalable these days by their nature, too. Swap out the assets, mess with the geometry, add or remove fancy trash blowing around in the background, put it in a box and sell it.

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Originally Posted by YellerDog

Remakes have been around since the beginning, we just called them 'ports' and they happened closer to the original release.

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Yeah. Calling 'em "remastered" kinda drives me nuts, too. Bonus points if you're correcting me for calling them "ports".

Hell, on older hardware ports sometimes required serious asset reworking. That's way less common today.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

This stuff is shit. A complete waste of time. I'm down with the ps2/Xbox remasters, but these PS3->ps4 is worthless. The problem is that there are a lot of dumb people out there. If someone asks them what they want to see from Naughty Dog on PS4, they will actually say TLOU Remastered instead of a new fucking game. If this is what we have to look forward to every gen, a bunch of remasters, I'm done. This is the same shit that studios have been peddling. How many times have they released Terminator 2?

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I don't get too upset at buying good-enough games a second time years later due to them running way smoother and at higher resolutions or whatever (ideally they'd all just be on PC in the first place etc etc), but yeah, asking for ports over new shit is obscene. People are getting on 343i's case for outsourcing the hell out of Master Chief Collection, for example, but even with the nasty state MCC's matchmaking is in, they made the right call to outsource instead of doing it themselves. Halo 5 is more important than MCC.

Sure, Halo 5 is more important but they deserve every single ounce of shit thrown their way for releasing a game that is still broken a month after release. It's unacceptable.

You guys still play Halo?

The early 3D games from the N64/PS1/Saturn era represent the cut off point to me for games that deserve to be remastered.

Most Dreamcast/PS2/Xbox/GameCube games still hold up fine in 480p. PS3/Xbox 360 titles look even better, and they have even less reason to be remade since most were already in 720p.

The last remake I bought was the Banjo Kazooie/Tooie bundle on the Xbox 360 and I actually really liked that one because of how much more playable the games are at a solid 60 FPS and with a larger draw distance. The Perfect Dark XBLA port had the same kind of frame rate/draw distance improvements and was also pretty cool.

I don't see any problem with continuing to port stuff forward, lord knows backwards compatibility isn't really A Thing these days. Buy it or don't! Acting like it's some new phenomena is just old people talk.

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Originally Posted by YellerDog

You guys still play Halo?

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I tried to play with Chux, Korly, Evilmog and Brettmatic on friday.

Shit didn't work :( We played Worms instead! :)

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Originally Posted by FirstBlood

Sure, Halo 5 is more important but they deserve every single ounce of shit thrown their way for releasing a game that is still broken a month after release. It's unacceptable.

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In case I sound like I'm defending them, I'm not. I just don't consider the fact that port work was outsourced to be an inherently bad thing, and would generally prefer it... but MCC deserves a ton of criticism. MS, 343i, the individual studios, whatever. The collection's a mess.

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Originally Posted by YellerDog

You guys still play Halo?

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I like it more now than back in the day. It's weird.

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MCC deserves a ton of criticism. MS, 343i, MS, the individual studios, whatever. The collection's a mess.

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The sad thing is that most review sites rushed to give it 9/10 scores without even testing the multiplayer functionality in a public environment.

Studios don't have much incentive to get this stuff right on release day when the people reviewing the games don't hold studios accountable.

Like a lot of games I don't care about, remakes don't matter because I don't have to buy them. Ico/Shadow of Colossus? Sure, for archive purposes and to have Colossus run on decent hardware. PS2 Space Channel 5 collection? Great to have them both in one spot. Rez HD? Looked great and even came on the Qubed disk, so I don't have to worry about my digital copy turning into a demo seeing as my 360 is no longer hooked up to the internet. GTAV PS4? Yeah, no thanks, but if I change my mind it'll be under $20 by the time I bother. The nice thing about remaking 1-2 year old games is there's no rush to pay full price on something that will be cluttering up the budget used bins soon enough.

I don't really mind a remake if they actually improve the game and price it accordingly. The MGS collections on ps3 did it right, the best versions of several great games for $40.

There is certainly a wrong way of doing it. It's laughable to pay $60 for Tomb Raider Definitive Edition after buying the ps3 version, but I don't mind grabbing the upgrade for $20.

I thought the DS Dragon Quest remakes were wonderful, more because of the gameplay tweaks (double gold and EXP growth for inactive party members) than extra Ps or new graphics.

On one hand, I find it hilarious that certain gamers bitch about the industry being creatively bankrupt, only make the same things over and over...but then are the most excited about straight up buying the same thing again, with remasters.

On the other hand, I think it's fine, because we all have our weaknesses. I got Wind Waker HD, and if Square ever remade FF12 like they did for 10, I'd get like 5 copies, easily!

I think it's good that games are continued to be made available past the commercial life of their original platforms. I think that's actually pretty important.

Now remakes themselves run the full gamut, from super faithful to those that compromise the integrity of the original. Even among the latter, there's good and bad.

More ports and remakes, please. I am absolutely part of the problem, and I admit that. There's plenty of games on PS3 / Xbox 360 I either only played a bit of or missed out on, and I'd much rather have them running and looking better on the new consoles.

Of course, the problem comes in now that we're moving away from remake collections and to "here's one reworked game, pay $60 for it". Saints Row should have been Saints Row The Third + IV, not just IV. Dark Souls should be Dark Souls + II, not just II.

I'd love to get a discount on the remake / port if I already own the game, but, yeah, good luck with that a lot of the time.

Eh, just wait until it hits the bargain bin.

I look at the releases from last gen to new gen as more of a "hey, did you miss the first release? Why not try it now?" Type of thing. Not a buy it twice rehash. I'm fine with all the remakes. I can say no. It's pretty easy.

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Originally Posted by EvilMog

I'm fine with all the remakes. I can say no. It's pretty easy.

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From the Haul thread, etc, I gather that you pick up just about every major game released, so I hear you with the "I can say no" comment, but that's not really what I'm talking about.

The problem isn't, "how can I possibly resist purchasing this remake," it's, why aren't these hugely talented developers devoting their time toward new content? Case in point, GTAV remastered: I'd much rather Rockstar focus on GTA6. I'm sure they have a huge team working on 6 already, but why not take the guys remastering 5 and throw them onto the 6 project so 6 is released sooner? Cowdisease, you hear me dude? (Love you bro)

Harping on GTAV, I feel like releasing such a majorly advanced version one year after the fact is sorta a slap in the face to the people who bought the game a year ago, even though I don't care about 1st person mode. As I said, I purchase many remakes and am not against the trend wholeheartedly. But I also feel that the lifespan between a game's release and a game being remade is too short (for example Journey & GTAV). What if, instead of PS3 games being remade for PS4, we had PS4 remakes of PS2 games? Or even PS1? Grand Theft Auto III or Vice City running on the GTAV engine would be a true jizz your pants scenario. Maybe one day Final Fantasy VII could get remade too. (And yes I realize these remakes would require a lot more resources).

Brb- pre-ordering Majora's Mask 3DS.

Like most games of the last 2-3 years, GTAV never should have been released on last gen hardware to begin with.

You're also confusing remakes and remasters. If basically all you have to do is upscale a game, you're not wasting much of "these hugely talented" developers' time. How many actual remakes, a la Resident Evil, can you think of recently? It's a pretty short list. In fact, it seems to mostly be Nintendo doing that right now.

edit: Back to GTA, as long as the next one is back in Vice City, I'm good.

Tyler, I almost never post in the haul thread, so yeah.

Rockstar better not make GTA 6 until I'm playing a new Red Dead.

Allegedly, we'll see a new Bully before either of those.

Gross.

I liked Bully better than the last two GTAs. The series has lost something somewhere and it's just nowhere near as fun as it used to be. Bully at least felt like something new, even if it was GTA in high school.

Bully was fun for longer than GTA games are fun. Whatever that means.

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Originally Posted by EvilMog

I almost never post in the haul thread

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I might be confusing you with your evil(er) twin, samuraimoogle, but one of you seems to work at Gamestop and beat every new release 1-3 days after the game hits stores. It's not a bad thing.

I don't know if I want present-day Rockstar revisiting Bully. Their creative "attitude" has shifted so much since the PS2 days, and the thought of a srs bsns version of Bully scares me. Outsource it to the Saints Row guys IMO; they're still making games in the PS2 Rockstar tone, just dialed up a bit.

Fuck no.

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Originally Posted by Space Pirate Roberts

Their creative "attitude" has shifted so much since the PS2 days

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No it hasn't.

If they released a game like Bully in 2015 it would be celebrated far more than it was when it came out.

I like the trend of remakes so long as the games are actually good in the first place and it doesn't impact production of new quality IPs.

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Originally Posted by FirstBlood

No it hasn't.

If they released a game like Bully in 2015 it would be celebrated far more than it was when it came out.

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I believe this.

You guys really don't see the difference in tone between GTA3/VC/SA/Bully and GTA4/5/Red Dead? :wtf:

Remakes are dubious propositions. With old games I theoretically like the idea of "making them look they were supposed to look" but I think they rarely get the time/money/care that's necessary.

This was brought up elsewhere, but I don't dislike the idea of classy, boutique Criterion Collection-style releases for newer hardware, cleaned up and with extras and nice packaging. Sort of like Sega Ages was. I feel like there's probably a market for that, but most companies seem fine with just using their old games for easy extra revenue as downloadable or shoved onto cheap collections.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

This stuff is shit. A complete waste of time. I'm down with the ps2/Xbox remasters, but these PS3->ps4 is worthless. The problem is that there are a lot of dumb people out there. If someone asks them what they want to see from Naughty Dog on PS4, they will actually say TLOU Remastered instead of a new fucking game. If this is what we have to look forward to every gen, a bunch of remasters, I'm done. This is the same shit that studios have been peddling. How many times have they released Terminator 2?

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I'm playing TLOU on the PS3 now. It's pretty obvious that this game is demanding more from the PS3 hardware than it is capable of delivering. There are several sections of this game that become a slide show, once the action becomes too much for the PS3 to handle. I've already picked up the PS4 version from Target ($34) and plan on playing it once I get a PS4 for Christmas.

Yeah, I agree that we don't need a bunch of Xbox 360 and PS3 ports to the next generation consoles. But, there are a few exceptions that need to be considered. The PS2 games definitely deserved to be ported to the PS3, since the console had a lot of blurry interlaced games that deserved better.

You know what remakes sucked a little in hind sight? Those new luners. The level layouts and boss ai was just worse than the originals. You didn't even need the special armor or dragon seals to beat anything.

They did look better though.

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

luners

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http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1256147501

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Originally Posted by Space Pirate Roberts

You guys really don't see the difference in tone between GTA3/VC/SA/Bully and GTA4/5/Red Dead? :wtf:

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You have them grouped wrong is your problem. The theme and tone of GTA3 and 4 line up. That is different than the tone of VC and probably SA/5. And of course those are all different than Bully and Red Dead. You're basically describing five different series or subseries. It's not a generational change.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

There are several sections of this game that become a slide show, once the action becomes too much for the PS3 to handle.

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I played through the PS3 version and didn't experience this at all. The game is pretty enough for me, I don't have or need a PS4 version.

I think it depends on your frame of reference. It's gorgeous for a last gen game, but if you play a lot of PC games, you almost felt sorry for it being held back by its hardware.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

I think it depends on your frame of reference. It's gorgeous for a last gen game, but if you play a lot of PC games, you almost felt sorry for it being held back by its hardware.

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Fair enough. PC games are definitely cleaner and prettier.

The part where you're on the turret on the top floor of the house at the end of the culdesac was awful, must have been like 19 FPS or something. Plus you can have something technically excellent but with rough image quality, something I think was the case in that game in many places.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

The part where you're on the turret on the top floor of the house at the end of the culdesac was awful, must have been like 19 FPS or something. Plus you can have something technically excellent but with rough image quality, something I think was the case in that game in many places.

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There are sections where the bloaters start spewing spores that brings the game down to 4 or 5 fps. It's really bad.

I like it when the software I use gets updates and new versions on different platforms, and that's what games are, so I'm okay with it.

I would prefer totally different, new games, but I totally understand your position of enjoying old games being marketed as the brand new thing on different platforms for profit.

I also don't always have time to play the games I'm interested in when they first come out, so if they get an upgrade before I get around to picking them up, it's a nice bonus.

This should probably really be here, but it's locked. I'm surprised there is a such a difference on the REmaster:

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Originally Posted by Digital Foundry

The PC edition is easy to recommend for the premier Resident Evil playthrough; a release that scales to lower-end GPUs gracefully, while adding perks such as 60fps support and improved anti-aliasing. The Xbox One's frailty in handling quality shadows is a surprise by comparison here, and the PC release also avoids the PS4's frame-pacing troubles. But, in every other sense, all three versions shoot straight and hit their target.

Despite plundering the GameCube release for most of its backdrops, this remaster holds up surprisingly well at 1080p too, backed by a lighting model that dips into the new hardware's strengths, if only by a tip-toe. It's a conservative update compared to the 2002 remake, and not all angles of the mansion are flattered equally by the HD cut - though it's arguable how much more tweaking would broach remake territory. As a definitive release of a classic, the first Resident Evil title on PS4 and Xbox One is a well-judged start as the series enters a new generation.

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Link

Goddamn the new machines sound like shit.

There need to be more games made just for a console because making them on a PC first isn't doing them any goddamn favors.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

There need to be more games made just for a console because making them on a PC first isn't doing them any goddamn favors.

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Shhhhhhhh...

If we could get PC ports of, what, half a dozen games a year, consoles could ride off into the sunset. In 2014, that number was probably even lower.

edit: For clarity, it should be half a dozen more games a year, speaking about the remaining useful exclusives.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Goddamn the new machines sound like shit.

There need to be more games made just for a console because making them on a PC first isn't doing them any goddamn favors.

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I'll buy exclusives and maybe an online FPS if I don't want to play it mouse and keyboard. Like Battlefield Hardline or whatever. But other than that there's really no reason not to buy everything else on PC, as long as you have one.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Goddamn the new machines sound like shit.

There need to be more games made just for a console because making them on a PC first isn't doing them any goddamn favors.

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I think it's just a case of a crappy port job.

Games like Infamous and Ryse do wayyyy more compared to a game like RE that has friggin static backgrounds with a few characters on screen at a time.

I'm blaming Capcom or whoever ported it. The PC version is fine, and that's great, but the differences between steady frame rate or poo poo shadows is boggling.

ClayFighter

Why?

We need Ballz next!

Brutal Paws of Fury

Eternal Champions CD

Rise Of The Robots.

thrill kill hd

I'm genuinely shocked nobody's taken a crack at Time Killers.

Interplay still exists?

Eternal champions was an ok fighter.

The Sega CD one is worth playing around with for the lulz. The Cine-kills are pretty great.

I was just talking about this recently. I already started a Bad Mr. frosty sculpt to generate some interest. :( I would actually REALLY love to see a super hd Clayfighter come back.

The interesting this is that they shot the original frames on film before converting to the tiny SNES/etc. sprites. Theoretically they could do a really nice hd version from existing assets. That being said- is Interplay even still around? Seems sketchy to me.

Pit Fighter needs an update.

BloodStorm remake!! Who's with me?!!?

I'm gonna take your gauntlet brah.

Pit Fighter belongs in a trash can.

The guys that made the Bump in the Night cartoon did the animation for Clayfighter (it's pretty amazing what they did for a Saturday morning show). Eternal Champions CD is legit, they went nuts on the content for that game.

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Originally Posted by cigsthecat

I was just talking about this recently. I already started a Bad Mr. frosty sculpt to generate some interest. :( I would actually REALLY love to see a super hd Clayfighter come back.

The interesting this is that they shot the original frames on film before converting to the tiny SNES/etc. sprites. Theoretically they could do a really nice hd version from existing assets. That being said- is Interplay even still around? Seems sketchy to me.

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Interplay is around but they're more or less just a licensing company at this point. Some dev I've never heard of is handling this new version which sounds more like a sequel or reboot than a remake to me.

In concept that sounds good to me. I love the look and humor of ClayFighter and that'll translate well to HD, but the gameplay is horribly dated and needs an overhaul. But the developer is not only unproven, they don't even seem to have a website, so I'm pretty skeptical until I see something to make me feel otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Rumpy

The guys that made the Bump in the Night cartoon did the animation for Clayfighter (it's pretty amazing what they did for a Saturday morning show). Eternal Champions CD is legit, they went nuts on the content for that game.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhqKZag9n7Q

I did not know about that! It's pretty much 'Clayfighter The Cartoon', sure enough.

Risen 3

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Originally Posted by Tyler_Durden

I'm torn. I love revisiting older games with updated visuals

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It never comes out right. Going all the way back to Super Mario being remade on the SNES, it's just always inferior to the first attempt.

The Mario remakes are almost always wet farts, yeah. Mario 64 DS is the only good one in memory.

The worst game in the series to that point (yes I went there) ported to a system without a decent controller for it is the best remake?

balls

The thumb nub was finnnnnne. I have an irrational hatred of the N64 and even I liked it.

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Originally Posted by Cheebs

it's just always inferior to the first attempt.

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Attachment 76639

I dunno dude, they dropped the ball on that intro pretty hard.

It did lose some of its, uh, charm? I can't think of a better remake, though depending on taste, you could argue for either of these:





But not this:



edit: Yes, I am perfectly comfortable making everything about RE and CV.

With REmake I think they were aiming for cool and just hit "dorky" right in the center.

There almost have to be two categories for remakes: ones that are very faithful to the original and ones that take more liberty. They can be very successful either way, but it's hard to compare the two in terms of how well they're remade.

I know those Castlevania games are "remakes" of 1, 1, and Dracula X...

...but they're not remakes. They're new games. You can tell because they're good.

ban pls

Now a real remake is that DraculaX disaster that came to the PSP. Worse in every way, especially graphics.

You can tell that one is a remake because it sucks.

You're not wrong on that one.

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Originally Posted by YellerDog

The Mario remakes are almost always wet farts, yeah. Mario 64 DS is the only good one in memory.

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You seriously have the most backward taste in games. It's so backward I actually agree with Joust about something. That's fucked up, man.