Steel Assault - Famicom-styled action platformer (PC, Kickstarter)

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Originally Posted by Tain

I don't think Shovel Knight, La Mulana, or Cave Story are anywhere near 8-bit/16-bit classic tier, but Rockman 9, Rockman 10, and as mentioned, Fantasy Zone II DX are all worthy of their predecessors. You can argue that Volgarr shot for a 16-bit aesthetic and that game is classic-worthy. You could even look at what Cave was doing for the last half-decade as "throwback" if you really wanted (I don't really care about the intent, but they were making 240p games in 2012), and even (especially) their last games are basically the top of the genre.

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I'd argue the Cave games aren't at all retro, because consoles didn't exist prior to the 360 that could handle all of the sprites and effects, as evidenced by the PS2 ports. Fantasy Zone II DX is essentially a remake, so that's a bit of a stretch too. Rockman 9 & 10 are certainly in scope, but frankly it says a lot about Capcom that they chose to go backwards tech-wise with the same damn mainline series from 7 and 8.

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I think that the visuals, like tons of other things about a given game, are a compromise in many cases, but there's more value in delivering something cohesive at a lower tech level than sloppy at a higher tech level. I think Rockman 9 will be more fondly remembered than Monster Boy.

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I don't disagree with your overall point here. Tech for the sake of tech isn't the point either, and I don't want hacks developing games with great tech but awful art deign and gameplay. Your Rockman 9 vs. Monster Boy bet is a pretty good one, because the art design in Monster Boy is as questionable as the tech decision in Rockman. They're both handicapped.

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Originally Posted by Vasteel

The Locomalito stuff, too. Maldita Castilla is every bit as good as Ghouls & Ghosts, and Endless Forms Most Beautiful is in my top ten games ever made.

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The latter is another remake, right? The former might as well be, although it raises an interesting question that I hadn't previously considered: Is there value in continuing discontinued series in the style in which they left off? Thinking "out loud," Maldita Castilla comes across less lazy to me than Rockman 9, because GnG never evolved beyond 16-bit in its mainline form. Thus, MC didn't go backwards for the sake of cost cutting, etc.

when can I pirate it

By "it" you mean the Locomalito stuff? It's freeware. You'll never be able to pirate it. Just go download it.

It's a real shame, too.
A cracktro would really add to the retro feel.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

The latter is another remake, right?

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I'm not entirely sure of the facts, but my understanding is that it's a remake of a Spectrum game that was made by a guy named Dave Hughes but within the last few years. It's not an old game.

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The former might as well be, although it raises an interesting question that I hadn't previously considered: Is there value in continuing discontinued series in the style in which they left off? Thinking "out loud," Maldita Castilla comes across less lazy to me than Rockman 9, because GnG never evolved beyond 16-bit in its mainline form. Thus, MC didn't go backwards for the sake of cost cutting, etc.

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I understand where you're coming from, but it's the concept of evolution that I'm not sure has any real substance. I don't think many fans would ever prefer Megaman 7 or 8 to Megaman 2 (bear in mind I haven't played 9 or 10 so have no horse in the race). Likewise, Super Mario 3 on SNES/GBA is not as good as NES. New Super Mario Bros seems retro when compared to Super Mario 64, but I doubt an N64 could do it, or likewise (more of a stretch) Link Between Worlds seems like a throwback versus Twilight Princess, but LBTW runs at 60fps. There are 3d remakes and sequels to a lot of classic Sega joints on PS2 but I doubt many of them could be considered a step forward in any way.

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Originally Posted by Vasteel

I understand where you're coming from, but it's the concept of evolution that I'm not sure has any real substance. I don't think many fans would ever prefer Megaman 7 or 8 to Megaman 2 (bear in mind I haven't played 9 or 10 so have no horse in the race). Likewise, Super Mario 3 on SNES/GBA is not as good as NES.

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Right, but neither of the older games is better for technical reasons. If you could get MM2 to look exactly like MM8 but play exactly like MM2, it would be better than both MM8 and the original MM2. I haven't played the SNES or GBA versions of SMB3, but I suspect it's similar in that they broke something else while updating the graphics.

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New Super Mario Bros seems retro when compared to Super Mario 64, but I doubt an N64 could do it, or likewise (more of a stretch) Link Between Worlds seems like a throwback versus Twilight Princess, but LBTW runs at 60fps.

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I wouldn't call NSMB or LBW retro at all, because that would basically imply that anything 2D is retro, and that's probably part of the overall problem here. Some people really do feel that way.

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There are 3d remakes and sequels to a lot of classic Sega joints on PS2 but I doubt many of them could be considered a step forward in any way.

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Following on from above, going from 2D to 3D is a whole different animal. I simply want to see new 2D games that actually try to utilize the hardware on which they're running. Although I'm not a fan of the subseries, NSMB is what I'm talking about. Where is the equivalent for many other classic series or new IPs? For example, no one can convince me that a new 2D Castlevania would not have made more money for Konami than LoS, and I actually like LoS. I'm even fine if they fake it like GG Xrd. Lie to me with polygons. If I basically can't tell the difference, I don't care.

Agree with Yoshi 100% here.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Right, but neither of the older games is better for technical reasons. If you could get MM2 to look exactly like MM8 but play exactly like MM2, it would be better than both MM8 and the original MM2.

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The Ted Turner of TNL.

Do I get to own a baseball team? If so, sold.