Wonder Dudes in Gamesoft World Appreciation Thread

I really liked talking about the podcast Mzo, Geen, and Finch have put together. Was bummed to see the old thread closed and was hoping it'd be okay to start a new one?

First things first - I know Sonic was the last topic, but each episode has been really standout. So far Nier has been my favorite - there was so much about it I didn't know (including those books!), and that you guys pulled together to make sense of it all was great.

Overall, the podcast reminds me of Back In My Play. They approach older games with multiple viewpoints - their experiences with a game when it was released vs. now, its critical reception, what the dev or publishing process was like...

Unlike BimP, I really enjoy everyone's personalities and approaches to how they carry a conversation. No one person in particular takes more time than the others going over stuff, everyone plays the game in question to completion it seems (or in Mzo's case, to perfection), and it really punches up the value and entertainment of the conversation. I can't count the number of times I've listened to some games' critic yammer off about things that were completely untrue, with some air of self-imposed authority that was annoying to no end. Seeing these guys take the time to do a bit of history homework, and play the games to get reacquainted with the subject material is great.

My only complain is episodes feel so far away from each other. I think that has more to do with the amount of podcasting I like to listen to at work, than their actual output. Getting one out every few weeks must be a big effort, given how much time it would take to play & research a game, as well as get everyone together, record, edit, and publish a few hours of audio.

Because of the Sonic episode, I'm curious if we'll hear more 'themed' podcasts that try to take multiple titles from a franchise, genre, specific developer, etc. together for something more comprehensive? Or was that like a one-off thing? Either way I'll keep listening, retweeting the episode updates, all that business. EDIT - Nevermind! You do this kinda do this already! Keep these interesting connections/themes going!

(honestly, I've heard them largely out of order - like Super Mario GB, E3, Nier, Sonic, and going back to fill in the gaps)

Darmonde did a rad thing, and found the link that will get you to their iTunes page (but it has to launch it in the app):

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...992216475?mt=2

Hate iTunes with a violent passion? HERE'S A WEBSITE:

http://www.wonderdudesingamesoftworld.com/

(More than anything, this is just my long form way of saying thanks for all the hard work and I like what you're doing!)

Thanks Mzo, Finch, Geen! Sorry we're buttholes!

Whats one more? Keep making podcast guys!



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"what has been seen, can not be unseen"

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n__n thanks hero~

Ironplant you should post that artwork here, it was cool. I like the Sleepy Time Eggman concept art.

(If chux says it is ok. He seems to be the sheriff today)

Thanks for coming back Finch. <3

Thanks for making the thread and for the kind words. We were discussing making one ourselves earlier today.

Next up is Legendary Axe and Astyanax. Hope it's not too boring.

There are like 12 threads for this now and NOT ONE OF THEM has a link to the podcast in the first post. Even the original!

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Originally Posted by Fe 26

(If chux says it is ok. He seems to be the sheriff today)

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It was relevant, and good. You just didn't need to make a THIRD thread after you posted in this one.

I think all of the episodes have been themed, and in interesting ways. I didn't listen to the Nier episode, but all the others so far. Really liking it.

The one thing that bugs me a little is there are some conversations that kind of feel like loose ends. Sometimes one person starts an anecdote, but the conversation gets a bit sidetracked and the original point is never reached. There were a couple things mentioned early that were never brought back up- the main example that stuck out was about Burning Rangers, there was mention of other characters, 'we'll get back to that!' and you never did.

Perhaps have a pencil list of topics you know you want to mention at some point, and cross them off as they are talked about. I'd like it to be a bit more structured but it is has it's own charm with the way everyone just kind of talks, so that's more of a personal opinion that might not make it better overall.

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Originally Posted by cigsthecat

There are like 12 threads for this now and NOT ONE OF THEM has a link to the podcast in the first post. Even the original!

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I'm not sure how to link to a podcast in a way that's useful on a PC, but it's on itunes if you search for wonder dudes. I listen on my phone.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...992216475?mt=2

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Originally Posted by cigsthecat

There are like 12 threads for this now and NOT ONE OF THEM has a link to the podcast in the first post. Even the original!

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FWIW, I just assumed everyone subscribed to it via iTunes like I did. If there's an official site/RSS feed, I'll add it to the top!

EDIT

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I'm not sure how to link to a podcast in a way that's useful on a PC, but it's on itunes if you search for wonder dudes. I listen on my phone.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...992216475?mt=2

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That prompts you to launch the link in iTunes! I'll add it to the top!

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Thanks for making the thread and for the kind words. We were discussing making one ourselves earlier today.

Next up is Legendary Axe and Astyanax. Hope it's not too boring.

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I vaguely remember Astyanax...should try and find it/replay it.

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Originally Posted by Darmonde

Perhaps have a pencil list of topics you know you want to mention at some point, and cross them off as they are talked about. I'd like it to be a bit more structured but it is has it's own charm with the way everyone just kind of talks, so that's more of a personal opinion that might not make it better overall.

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We have a shared google doc of topics that we all edit as the show progresses. Mistakes will still happen.

http://www.wonderdudesingamesoftworld.com/

thanks Dunlap! Added link to the first post!

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Next up is Legendary Axe and Astyanax. Hope it's not too boring.

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Great choices. Legendary Axe and arcade Astyanax are super similar but I don't think I have seen any in depth comparisons before.

NES Astyanax was a disappointment for me. It's not bad but Gamepro or whoever gave it a perfect score back in the day so my expecting were too high.

My lesson so far? Beware butterflies.

Are you playing original not so balanced Earthbound or the let's make this sort of fun hack?

100% original shit.

Martyrs.

Hardcore muthafuckas.

It is the worst.

WORST.

I don't know why I cheered when it was released on Wii U.

): i like it a lot more than i remember liking it

Sadly there is not a lot of wonder boy art online. Well, nothing worth looking at.

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Man, I would play the fire out of this last one

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Originally Posted by Finch

): i like it a lot more than i remember liking it

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I just finished. It pulls a lot of story out in the back end. I like it a lot now, I just wish it wasn't so grindy.

some more vintage sonic

(which is the best sonic)

That last episode was great! It was another set of games I'm not familiar with (like Nier) except this time it wasn't a grind to listen through.

you're dead to me

What do you want? Abadox was my beginning-with-an-A-ending-with-an-X game.

before we started recording i was joking that we were playing Abadox and Golden Axe Warrior.

Needs more European games. Have you considered Lionheart?

What if we play the Famicom Disk System version of Monty on the Run?

Discussing weird, weird Japanese conversions of European computer games might make for an interesting episode!

Nice episode! Legendary Axe especially needs more fans (and for Aicom games, you should check out Megumi Rescue if you haven't already).

I thought the arcade Astyanax voice was "Don't give up playing this game?" but who the hell knows.

Unless I misheard, you got the Legendary Axe region dates reversed. It came out in Japan first.

Yeah, FINCH. Please stop lying in the future.

Megumi Rescue always looked like a cute SMS game, but didn't it use that rotary controller we never got in the US? I think there was a Fami port with standard controls, too.

Flying Hero is the FC game. It's not a port but it's pretty similar. Megumi Rescue does require the paddle controller although through emulation you can use a mouse or analog stick.

I think I'd take Plok over a TG-16 and a random game even today.

Good ep! I had no idea Astynax had any relation to Legendary Axe.

I had no idea the TG-16 was considered to be that uncommon among you guys. Then again, when I was a kid, I was obsessed with it for reasons I'll never understand, and my friends—who were also nerds—knew about it as well. But that could have been due to geography, living next to or near a large North American city.

Plok has a dope soundtrack. Just one of the best.

Anyone reading multi-format gaming mags back then would have been aware of the TG16 but I suppose that was a niche thing to do.

I didn't start reading multiplatform gaming magazines until the PS days. All I had until then were Nintendo systems.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

I didn't start reading multiplatform gaming magazines until the PS days. All I had until then were Nintendo systems.

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Man, really? Was it the N64 that push you toward the PS? How weird was it switching at the time?

Yeah, it totally was.

It was super weird. Like stepping into a new world.

Makes sense, the N64 was trash. You missed out on the Gunstar Heroes fruit roll up though.

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Originally Posted by Brisco Bold

I had no idea the TG-16 was considered to be that uncommon among you guys. Then again, when I was a kid, I was obsessed with it for reasons I'll never understand, and my friends—who were also nerds—knew about it as well. But that could have been due to geography, living next to or near a large North American city.

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Living in a not so large city, I knew about the TG16, wanted one, but there just wasn't any place near me to actually pick one up. There was one rental place that had games, but they never sold any systems. If I were an adult, it wouldn't have been a problem to drive 20 minutes to the nearest larger town that had many stores that carried it, but I couldn't exactly bike there as a kid.

I never actually played a TG16 till 2000 or so when I got a NOS Duo and games from TZD.com.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Yeah, FINCH. Please stop lying in the future.

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i'm going to make up pure shit in the future. Just kidding, i didn't look closely and it was 1988 vs 1989. I'd better apologize on the next episode.

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I didn't start reading multiplatform gaming magazines until the PS days. All I had until then were Nintendo systems.

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Whenever my mom went grocery shopping i went to the magazine aisle and read every Game Pro and EGM and Game Fan and anything that wasn't Computer Games Whatever (i tried but it was way too boring).
Mzo how did you feel when Nintendo Power was like "Wuh-wuht's a Sooper Famikom?" and later "Don't you DARE buy a Super Famicom, IT"S AGAINST THE LAW." while EGM was showing COOL PICTURES from Super Mario FOUR?

I remember playing Bonk at the kiosks in Toys R Us for far longer than I was probably supposed to, so I was well aware of the TG-16 and it had a major retail presence, but I don't think I knew anyone who actually had one personally.

I think I was always pretty aware of all the systems that were out, and I didn't start reading game magazines until I was in middle school so it must have been a combination of retail presence and the second hand stuff at flea markets and yard sales. I asked specifically for a Master System (I was already a Sega fanboy from the arcades) and an Atari Lynx over more popular Nintendo alternatives.

The one that eluded me until I was a little older was Intelevision. I would always see the games but I just thought they were third party Atari games with different cart shape. I bought a few (this was during the crash when you could literally get games for pocket change) and remember shoving them in my Atari (which may have involved removing the guard piece from the bottom of the cart) and being disappointed when they didn't work, but I don't think I knew why until much later.

My local mall had a Devil's Crush tournament. It was a combination of advertising for NEC and Compucentre (a common game retailer in Canada before EB arrived). I'm curious if Brisco or anyone else remembers that, too.

They had a TG-16 kiosk at every bloody Radio Shack in the country, it seemed. I saw the price drop from $189-to-50. I got it for my eleventh birthday? I think? I was ecstatic. I still love that little guy.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

My local mall had a Devil's Crush tournament. It was a combination of advertising for NEC and Compucentre (a common game retailer in Canada before EB arrived). I'm curious if Brisco or anyone else remembers that, too.

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The store, or the competition? I bought Deep Blue for TG-16 and Third Strike for the Dreamcastat at CompuCentre.

The competition. And yeah, I couldn't believe the drop to $50 at Radio Shack. That's when I bought the system (1992, I believe). I borrowed a TG16 a lot before that in 1990/1991.

Nah, don't remember the competition, unfortunately. Mighta been too young.

Oh yah, good podcast guys. Finch's head on that dude's body is bloody terrifying.

I've seen two turbo16s in my life. I remember the system being out because I remember the bonk commercials, but as kids tend to do, completely disregarded it. The first 1 I saw was at a yard sale in Memphis. The other one was the one with a cd? That my cousin had in Salt Lake City. He didn't own any games for it, he just used it for music.

Except for Finch's incessant lying ("Chris Houlihan") I really like the show and will listen to it regardless of the games chosen.
But what are the odds of a Bouncer/Godhand episode?

Tamsoft games

The Daibijin and Guardian's Crusade?

We're going to make you believe it's about The Bouncer and Godhand but it's going to turn into Oneechanbara and Senran Kagura

A book on the Turbografx's history could be interesting or downright horrifying. The system seemed a mountain grade drop from the start and the US wing lacked any form of leadership.

I remember the Genesis blowing up shortly after launch and TG having one decent year with a load of games followed by virtually nothing.

In my town there was a dinky neighborhood furniture store with a TG-16 well above retail and the department store Venture had a Turbografx kiosk for several months.....with no games or systems to sell. When TRU opened they had cheap systems and games, picked one up and loved it. Never saw CD or Express in person. By the time they tried marketing the Duo, we had the usual department stores, TRU, EB, and a private game store (which is still around today). Nothing. Didn't see a NEC product at retail after 92 or 93. Finally saved up enough to mail order a Duo in high school, some of the stupid expensive games today were a pain to find a few months after release back then. Turbo Technologies failed hard to revitalize the brand.

What a different world it would have been if Nintendo wasn't allowed its monopoly.

My TRU had a Turbo CD on demo (I think) and i played Air Zonk for as long as my dad would leave us at TRU he was a terrible parent

but one time he bought us Link to the Past after he left us there for 2 hours

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Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name

What a different world it would have been if Nintendo wasn't allowed its monopoly.

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True.

My understanding is Turbo Tech had the usual struggle with its Japanese leadership molding US policies.

How much did Nintendo have to do with it though? I'm asking a genuine question. 80s NoA was slimy as hell, but PC Engine did great in Japan and Genesis didn't have much trouble getting its foot in the door in the U.S. Konami made everything for everything too (except Master System), but it didn't change much in any country besides having cool MSX games.

Someone far more versed in Sega history will have to answer that, but I think Genesis did ok to begin with because 1) Nintendo kids were turning teen and ready for something new and Nintendo wasn't delivering it, 2) even though no one knew about the Master System, Sega was a big arcade name and played on that strength with the Genesis launch, 3) early support by third parties was relegated to companies like EA and Accolade who made games without paying a license or forced Sega to give them a sweet deal, 4) and things didn't really blow up until Sonic hit the scene.
I could be partially or totally wrong though.

Sega made the right moves with Genny. Great licenses, excellent advertising etc. They had jack for third parties at start too but grew. The Turbo had none of that momentum aside from a blast of 50 or so games, by the time of Duo the N factor should have diminished but they still couldn't get it together.

Price tag could have been a factor but the Jaguar and 3DO seemed to gain shelf space easier than NEC's product. I'm told Turbo products could be found at Macy's and higher end stores. Not really getting your brand out there.

The Turbo was long dead over here by the time Dracula X hit PCE-CD, I have to imagine that would have been big if it came out earlier. October 93 though, there was nothing to save.

I bought my Turbo from Toys R Us. They had a pretty large selection of games. This was when the Genesis 2 had launched at the $99, no game included price point.
But aside from there, I don't recall seeing them in other stores aside from Sears. Definitely not the department stores we had back then (Ames, Jamesway).

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The Turbo was long dead over here by the time Dracula X hit PCE-CD, I have to imagine that would have been big if it came out earlier. October 93 though, there was nothing to save.

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Street Fighter 2, SNK fighters, a boatload of canned US releases like Macross, Spriggan could have boosted things....maybe.

Those were all pretty late. Hell, the SNK fighters used the Arcade Card. We didn't even get very many Super CD games.

Yeah, I tried looking through early hucard releases for some games that might have knocked our socks off if they came over here, but didn't really see any.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Those were all pretty late. Hell, the SNK fighters used the Arcade Card. We didn't even get very many Super CD games.

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Street Fighter would have been the best bet since it came around the Genny release and was on fire. Working Designs had interest in the SNK stuff but yeah too late.

Truthfully the best option for Turbo tech might have been name recognition:

Die Hard, Batman, Double Dragon II, Ninja Gaiden, Life Force, River City Ransom, R-Type Complete and so on.

Then again Duo had Forgotten Worlds, Shadow of the Beast, Loom, and Madden, none of which made a splash.

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Originally Posted by Finch

My TRU had a Turbo CD on demo (I think) and i played Air Zonk for as long as my dad would leave us at TRU he was a terrible parent

but one time he bought us Link to the Past after he left us there for 2 hours

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man, naive southern parents in the 80s. I remember being able to wonder around stores on my own as early as like 9 or 10. Maybe sooner.

The Duo launched in October 92.
What "killer app" was ready by then? It seems like all the best Duo games didn't launch until mid '93 in Japan, which means late 93/early 94 at best in the US. Right when Sega was killing it.

During the SMS and early Genesis days, Sega had to license their own ports of 3rd party games because companies were too afraid to port them in-house for fear of violating Nintendo's policy. So Sega systems had Double Dragon, Strider, Ghosts n Goblins, etc, but it was all Sega developing them. They also did a lot of celebrity and athlete licensing to get recognizable "brands" on their system.

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Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name

The Duo launched in October 92.
What "killer app" was ready by then? It seems like all the best Duo games didn't launch until mid '93 in Japan, which means late 93/early 94 at best in the US. Right when Sega was killing it.

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It came packed with about the best killer app you'd expect in two mascot platformers, a five player game and one of the most highly regarded shooters anywhere. Bomberman 93 launched a few months later to better press than Super Bomberman. 1993 was also Lords of Thunder and Dungeon Explorer II. If filler was needed there was Twinbee, Parodius, Gradius II, Spriggan, Macross, Valis IV, Super Raiden, R-Type Complete Rayxanber 3 (butchered that) til Street Fighter, Drac X, Ys 4 etc started to release. Many of those games ended up on the US release list but who knows how likely they were. Then you had to actually find a Duo to buy.....

Shooters and RPGs weren't exactly system sellers (in the US). It needed platformers and beat'em ups.

Reminds me I still want to check out Riot Zone if only for the fact Westone was involved with it and one of the few Duo brawlers.

I like it, but as I'm sure Mzo will point out, it's not very good. Single player, no combos, too few enemy variations.

More that the thing was the NES was a total damn beast in the US and the Turbo never managed to get its head above water.

And the Batman game looked like this:

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/att...id=77346&stc=1

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Originally Posted by Low

Reminds me I still want to check out Riot Zone if only for the fact Westone was involved with it and one of the few Duo brawlers.

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Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name

I like it, but as I'm sure Mzo will point out, it's not very good. Single player, no combos, too few enemy variations.

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Horrible animations all around. Little variety in combat and no weapons at all.

Some parts are so bad they're good but on the whole it's just kind of boring. I kinda like it for what it is.

River City Ransom and Double Dragon 2 are much better beat-'em-ups on the system, both based on the NES games.

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Originally Posted by YellerDog

More that the thing was the NES was a total damn beast in the US and the Turbo never managed to get its head above water.

And the Batman game looked like this:

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/att...id=77346&stc=1

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I remember that. It was a reskin of some obviously unreleated other game whose name escapes me right now.

It has the NES music and cutscenes, though.

It definitely was super disappointing going from finding out there's a Sunsoft Batman game on the PCE to seeing what it is.

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Originally Posted by Finch

Tamsoft games

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Those budget Block Kuzushi games for PS1 are the best Arkanoid things ever.

The original game in JP was
"Johnny Dangus' Box Pushing Pro-Am"

There's some nice prototype pics of Batman PCE floating around. PCE Batman is actually decent and very unique, the biggest flaw is Gradius power-up syndrome.

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Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name

I like it, but as I'm sure Mzo will point out, it's not very good. Single player, no combos, too few enemy variations.

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I bought it, finished it, and then immediately traded it back in.

What's up with the dearth of beat'em ups on the duo? Was it because of the differing cultures? Seems like every game based on an American license was a beat'em up or platformer. All our comic book games for example. Manga games seem to be adventure or visual novels (with a few exceptions of course).

I think you answered your own question. There weren't many American licensed games for it, which reduced the likelihood of beat 'em ups. Plus, who do you think of when you think of beat 'em ups? Sega, Capcom, Konami, Technos, and maybe Irem? There weren't a ton of any of their games on the PC Engine, and some that were were licensed instead of actually made by that company.

edit: I suspect another factor is that the PC Engine was relatively weak until the CD expansion cards. That limited its ability to handle the large sprites most beat 'em ups sport.

let me tell you about a game called China Warrior...

The Turbo's big on single plane Kung Fu Master type games that are pretty much beat 'em ups due to lack of platforming (Ninja Warriors, Vigilante, Kaze Kiri, Mad Stalker, Wonder Momo, Splatterhouse, etc.).

While less than the Genesis and SNES, I don't think Riot Zone, River City Ransom,, Downtown Nekketsu Koshinkyoku, Double Dragon 2, Ane-san, and Dynasty Wars counts as a dearth, though.

Have you played Ane-san?
There are hundreds and hundreds of games for Duo. 6 titles in comparison seems like a dearth.

I have played it. I didn't say it was good. ;) I suppose percentage-wise, there aren't a lot of beat 'em ups if you want to exclude the games in my first sentence. I always felt like those were the same genre.

no, those are platformers like Contra.
:p

A easier explanation might be Japanese gamers wanting RPGs and adventure games for their new CD tech (Mega CD went through the same it seems) and especially with the system 1.0 and 2.0 developers seemed embattled to pull anything of merit with the dinky RAM.

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Originally Posted by Finch

How much did Nintendo have to do with it though? I'm asking a genuine question. 80s NoA was slimy as hell, but PC Engine did great in Japan and Genesis didn't have much trouble getting its foot in the door in the U.S. Konami made everything for everything too (except Master System), but it didn't change much in any country besides having cool MSX games.

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Retailers expected the TurboGrafx to eat the Genesis alive. NEC was a lot larger than Sega and had a ton more cash, and the PC Engine was doing very well in Japan, while the Mega Drive struggled. A lot of retailers who stocked the Genesis at launch told Sega they would be returning the unsold merchandise the day after Christmas because they expected the TG-16 to do so well.

Sega got a foothold with the licenses and direct attacks against Nintendo, but I think what really helped it was the Atari vs. Nintendo anti-trust case. Nintendo won the actual case, but the writing was on the wall, and it desisted from restricting third party publishers before the case was even resolved. Once that started, Capcom, Konami, and everyone else began to make games for the Genesis. By the time the court decision in Nintendo's favor came down in May of 1992, the floodgates had already been opened. Nintendo lost that Christmas and the next two consecutively to Sega.

What really helped it was that the Genesis had the best, most diverse first and second party lineup we're likely to ever see. It was great to get Capcom and Konami on board, but how many games did they release? 10? How many other consoles could have five classics packs worth of first and second party games that are almost all actually good? Sega had pretty much every genre covered competently by themselves.

Sega was like that in the 8-bit era, too. They just didn't have the advertising then.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

What really helped it was that the Genesis had the best, most diverse first and second party lineup we're likely to ever see. It was great to get Capcom and Konami on board, but how many games did they release? 10? How many other consoles could have five classics packs worth of first and second party games that are almost all actually good? Sega had pretty much every genre covered competently by themselves.

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This is a very good point. At the peak of the Genesis days, even when I flip-flopped and went diehard Nintendo, I admitted that I liked Sega's first party games more than I did Nintendo games. But.. again, sound chip and Street Fighter 2 won the day. I was a stupid child.

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Originally Posted by Low

PCE Batman is actually decent

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Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Interesting that they kept the color palette in common with the Genesis game.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

What really helped it was that the Genesis had the best, most diverse first and second party lineup we're likely to ever see. It was great to get Capcom and Konami on board, but how many games did they release? 10? How many other consoles could have five classics packs worth of first and second party games that are almost all actually good? Sega had pretty much every genre covered competently by themselves.

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The funny thing is, I sold off almost all of my Genesis collection and only kept the very best, maybe 20 titles. Despite Konami's low volume of games on the system, I still have a lot of Konami games.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

What really helped it was that the Genesis had the best, most diverse first and second party lineup we're likely to ever see. It was great to get Capcom and Konami on board, but how many games did they release? 10? How many other consoles could have five classics packs worth of first and second party games that are almost all actually good? Sega had pretty much every genre covered competently by themselves.

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Sega always had that quality, and it couldn't get more than 5% of the market. The arrival of third party publishers and major franchises like Castlevania, Street Fighter, and others convinced consumers that the Genesis was really a viable option and not just another short-lived competitor.