The Trump Presidency

It seems to be counting up, not down, so what is the limit?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kedawa

It seems to be counting up, not down, so what is the limit?

---

China will let us know.

In all seriousness, contrary to popular belief, foreign investment in our debt is a relatively small slice of the pie. Most of it is held by the average American in various and sundry forms. So really, it's up to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew

Google "national debt clock." Click the first result. Take a gander at the "cost per individual" and "cost per taxpayer." It's in the upper left corner.

It's understandable that personal finances and those of a nation do not translate 1:1. That having been said, it should be pretty obvious that "business as usual" is not sustainable (to borrow a preferred word of our liberal betters).

---

That's not how national debt works though, not at all. The government prints its own money and can pay it off any time it wants (although that obviously leads to crazy inflation so we wouldn't want that). The debt isn't something owed by each taxpayer.

And while it is time to bring the deficit down at the point we are in the economic cycle it's not for the reasons you're arguing.

And cutting taxes and building a wall is just going to increase the debt so your candidate is far worse than business as usual.

I don't think anyone knows what the limit is. Seriously. Japan has a much higher debt-to-gdp ratio but it hasn't really been hurt in the capital markets or been forced to undergo structural reforms or whatever. And that's an economy that has been flatlining for over 20 years.

This is a country with a very large and productive economy that controls its own currency. When the markets tanked in 2008-2009 the flight to safety was to US government bonds, in spite of our $1T+ deficits in those years and after the Dubya admin was pumping out about $450B deficits every year.

I don't think that's an excuse to Krugmanize the economy or anything, just what the situation is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Diff-chan

And it's one of those things where, once the toothpaste is out of the tube, you're just fucked.

I don't think we are anywhere near that, but Obama was running $400B+ deficits by the end of his term in a better economy.

---

Very true, and I am concerned about inflation skyrocketing soon, although not from the debt but more from the huge amounts of cash on the sidelines due to interest rates being so low for so wrong. If interest rates don't go up a good deal soon I think there's a good chance we will be in trouble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew

That having been said, it should be pretty obvious that "business as usual" is not sustainable (to borrow a preferred word of our liberal betters).

---

"Business as usual" is a broken, flawed system, but it's one we can work with to improve.

You know what? I'm done with this conversation right now. There's going to be a massive amount of consequences from Trump's shitstorm this time next year, so I'll pick it up then. There's no point in arguing that a train on the tracks is better than one flying off the bridge when I can just wait and point at the bodies later on.

Clinton was far from an ideal candidate but she was one that people could have worked with. Trump is going to take the country decades to recover from.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James

There's no point in arguing that a train on the tracks is better than one flying off the bridge

---

Trump is transforming this shit into Astrotrain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James

"Business as usual" is a broken, flawed system, but it's one we can work with to improve.

You know what? I'm done with this conversation right now. There's going to be a massive amount of consequences from Trump's shitstorm this time next year, so I'll pick it up then. There's no point in arguing that a train on the tracks is better than one flying off the bridge when I can just wait and point at the bodies later on.

Clinton was far from an ideal candidate but she was one that people could have worked with. Trump is going to take the country decades to recover from.

---

Oh, Trump will rocket us into an even worse debt than Obama ever did, because he's undoubtedly gearing us up for another un-winable war with another nation (or nations!) Hillary would have raged cyber-war with Russia which would have not been anywhere near as expensive as what trump will do, guarantee. I'm not 100% sure Trump knows that war is done with computers nowadays, I imagine he'll have feet on the ground by next year or so. Wherever that will be. I'm sure he'll figure some phantom enemy out, just as every Republican president has done in the past ~50 years.

There will be another crash, and it's coming, way sooner than it would have under Hillary - especially if this ridiculous foreign policy nonsense keeps up. I'm very annoyed about this for a variety of reasons, most of them small, but as I have stated from the beginning of the election, it won't be my family that will suffer, it's going to fall hardest on those who voted for Trump in the first place. Which, I suppose is its own special little social darwinism.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Satsuki

Oh, Trump will rocket us into an even worse debt than Obama ever did, because he's undoubtedly gearing us up for another un-winable war with another nation (or nations!) Hillary would have raged cyber-war with Russia which would have not been anywhere near as expensive as what trump will do, guarantee. I'm not 100% sure Trump knows that war is done with computers nowadays, I imagine he'll have feet on the ground by next year or so. Wherever that will be. I'm sure he'll figure some phantom enemy out, just as every Republican president has done in the past ~50 years.

---

In order for "war mongering Replicans" argument to pass the smell test, we have to collectively pretend the previous drone-happy president never happened. Or that Clinton never bombed Iraq to distract from his impeachment. Or Carter and the Eagle Claw debacle. Or just about anything that Johnson did. Or Kennedy and Bay of Pigs. Or Truman nuking two cities and intervening in Korea.