He drew some sunglasses.
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He drew some sunglasses.
"Rape is bad" seems to have similarly fallen out of fashion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Stupid Japanese Name
And ate a phallic corn dog.
Have you actually read all of that wiki link?Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Many academics consider the Holodomor to be a genocide. Russia mishandled the food supply of the Ukraine resulting in the death of 3.5 million people. Do you think Russia admits intent and fault?
Wiki also lists the Trail of Tears as a genocide with only 4,000 deaths. Do you think the government at the time admitted intent to kill when they forced them to move? Or they didn't give a shit, wanted them gone, and they died as a coincidence, but not deliberately? Does ti matter? Historians still label it a genocide.
It doesn't really matter what you call it and I don't know why you decided to die on this hill. The fact still remains that Trump and company currently do know how deadly the virus is and continues to say dumb shit on tv that gets people killed and makes decisions that are going to get people killed. The New York Times estimates that as many as 1.7 million Americans could die.
But hey, lets worry about if its a genocide because Trump probably didn't write a mein kampf about hating 90 year olds and probably doesn't have rallies purposely to spread the hate of 90 year olds.
For what it is worth, I almost don't blame you for perceiving this this way. Hollywood has spent a lot of money to make the holocaust the only genocide in the minds of Americans. They don't want you to think about what we did to the Indians, Africans, Hawaiians. And they don't want you to have pity for what our allies have done in the Ukraine and other areas. They want you to focus on the holocaust because its overtly evil, and done with, and the dragon is slain and the Israel is now our ally. Double kudos if you draw a link between ending the holocaust and D Day which aren't actually related (but darn it if video games and films don't try to build that link).
Most sane non-internet contrarians would expect there has to be a deliberateness to the actions that kill a group of people for something like this to warrant dropping big G in earnest. Soviets orchestrated Holodomor to increase power by removing Ukraine’s independence, and spread their ideology to the East. Stalin was a conqueror. Conquerors gonna conquer.
That being said I agree with applying the term here. Why should we be careful with a term that means thousands of people in a specific group die (elders) just because it’s due to incompetence rather than design? Trump certainly didn’t make adult leadership choices to minimize an environment where anti-science and propaganda-as-news which has only helped cause more deaths. It’s a genocide. Good term for it.
US needs universal healthcare or insurance. It’s insane to not.
I don't care what we call it. Pandemic, genocide, quarantine, whatever. What's important is to acknowledge that all the slow/poor/dumb responses to this virus – like the President's unending lies camouflaged as sarcasm, the governor of Georgia reopening too soon, the misguided protests – are 100% intentional.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunlap
Bully President says whatever pops into his head because he's a dick, and he has other people to clean up the messes he makes. He signals the dimwitted assholes who worship him, Fauci or someone else then contradicts and is forced to make up a bullshit reason for that signal. Lupus meds, availability of PPE, sunlight, testing, whatever else he wants to ramble about and then his idiot followers never hear the clarifications.
Reopening too soon is so blatantly a dodge of the CARES act and a punch in the stomach to both small businesses and those struggling to get by that it doesn't need explaining.
And the shitheads in ill-fitting body armor and loose jeans, toting guns, both rationalizing away concern for the deaths and falsely equating preventative measures to socialism are acting out a fascist power fantasy – sheltering in place is "weak" and "effeminate" so we should just go get sick and let nature sort it all out the "manly" way.
Greedy, selfish, machismo-fueled bullies & lazy, entitled wealthy people who know (consciously or not) that they don't make their own money and are seriously worried there will be a reckoning. Which, technically, they should be worried about. But this isn't a land of revolution any more. Once this is under some semblance of control, we'll go right back to a slightly modified version of the exploitative system we had. Some people might be a little louder about their calls to dismantle capitalism but that'll be it.
I don't know if intent was ever proven. Were they taking the food for mainland Russia? Or were they trying to supress the ukraine? Was it apathy? Ignorance? Or did they actually plot it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
But we call it genocide. It probably was. Around 1 million dead people, they had to have known they were killing ukrainians with their actions, and didn't care. They kept taking their food, killing them. At some point it became deliberate.
And we are nearing that with Trump. At some point, when he is alone, eating his chicken nuggets, he has to role a thought around and realize some of his decisions have gotten people killed. If he doubles down after that, it would be fair to call it genocide. If he still doesn't consciously know he's getting people killed, he's even dumber than we thought.
Drew, This is the first time you and I agree on something! Topsy turvy land.
IP, again, perfectly stated. I have nothing to add because you guys are all really eloquently reiterating excellent points that aren’t just wiki-jocking. You’re spot on about the Spielbergification of portrayals of genocide - in fact, that’s what I wrote a good portion of work about this past year! There’s very big money invested in keeping the ideal of genocide focused on a Hollywood ideal (mainly Holocaust focused,) where there are clear cut good guys and bad guys, and survivors are awarded heroic redemptive narratives. A moderate deep dive into genocide perpetrator/survivor testimony (Holocaust and otherwise) reveals a pretty different reality: both the regimes that genocide occurs in, as well as the victims who suffer, have very complex and nuanced ideas about what occurred.
Genocides are not simple black and white, despite the media portrayals of such, the “bad men” are not always men wearing swastikas and carrying guns, just as victims are not always the emaciated bodies that we see in old photographs. These are “myths” - not in the “didn’t occur” way, but in the way that they have become caricatures of history. Thus, when an actual emergency occurs, people will point at it and say “this is not what a genocide looks like, because I have seen genocides on media before and they don’t look like this. therefore we need not truly panic.”
It’s a very dangerous mindset to have, and I very much place some blame on the Hollywoodization of the Holocaust for this. Good observation!
It's a helpful way to describe the problem. And this doesn't just go for the portrayal of unspeakable acts like genocide. The people who are legitimately upset about their governors ordering shelter in place recognize this is some kind of "apocalypse" scenario but instead of a The Road landscape with them being able to justify shooting whomever they'd like and becoming the law, people are being courteous & helping & caring for one another. (Sorry, there are plenty of better references for shitty apocalypses, The Road just came to mind first.) They were expecting roving bands of people coming to take their shit (and let's be honest here – they're projecting) and got people doing their best not to infect others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satsuki
For one he's a functioning human with the ability to collaborate with others. Two, he's going to fill the positions around him with capable, experienced people rather than rogues gallery of fringe lunatics and corrupt campaign donors. Three, he isn't going to make decisions based on a child-like understanding of what he saw on Tucker Carlson last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
No one here is arguing he's going to make a good president, but we shouldn't understate what a once-in-a-lifetime terrible president he is running against. I don't need a hero, I just need an adult.
If Mitt Romney was on the fucking democratic ticket in November, I would vote for him too. I don't care. Just anyone who isn't Trump or a member of his death cult.
It's sort of a wash, though. Trump seems to have dementia as well and can't hold a though or just spout straight up gibberish. He has a lot of energy and he manages to sell that, but I'm not convinced he's not just taking Adderall or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonusKun
Well, sorry to disappoint. Trump represents every entitled shitbag I knew growing up, making my life miserable because I was poor and being even worse to marginalized people. A presidential vote doesn't really matter but since I can't punch him in the face, a vote against him is the only real, "fuck you, asshole," I have. You know how people like to reference Michael Moore's "molotov cocktail" quote? Same idea in reverse.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
But everything you listed is a bad faith argument, whether you intended that or not. Biden doesn't look at me & people like me and think I'm a loser. Trump thinks I'm a loser. He thinks you're a loser. Yes, you, ARBM and whoever is reading this. He thinks you're a loser, and if he could harm you in some way he would, be that physically or emotionally. Biden just wants to get back on track (whatever the fuck that means).
He won't be given a list of assholes like Kavanaugh. That doesn't mean the list he's given will be full of Kagans and Sotomayors but it won't be as bad as any Trump picks.Quote:
- Why do you take it as given that the guy who voted to confirm Scalia and who infamously smeared Anita Hill in service of appointing Clarence Thomas will appoint someone any more progressive than, say, Kavanagh?
DOMA is old as fuck. It's "what about" bullshit. And, like all politicians, he goes by polls. He may have actually been against gay marriage/rights at some point but he came around much earlier than 2012 then waffled/lied until it was safe. Obama didn't change his mind when he said he did, he lied. I think, in his case, he was never against it, but whatever. That argument about privilege, while most frequently (and rightfully) employed against white people, goes for anyone powerful. "If I come out in favor of gay rights now in 1998 I'll risk losing things I like so I'll wait until the public opinion turns a little." I am very familiar with this behavior, so when I see the careful answers I get what is happening. By contrast, I also know fake support when I see it, and that is anything Trump says about marginalized people.Quote:
- Why do you think a guy who supported DOMA and opposed gay marriage until 2012 is going to be a champion of the marginalized?
Nobody's a champion of the middle class. I hate "both sides" bs as much as anyone else but the Democrats are just as interested in continuing the status quo as Republicans. Dems just want the cries to dismantle the system to be quieter, where Republicans actively want to punish those people for being ingrates.Quote:
- Why do you think the architect of the 2005 bankruptcy bill (which Elizabeth Warren built her career opposing) is going to be a champion of the middle class?
More "what about" bullshit.Quote:
- Why do you think the chief proponent of the 1994 crime bill and who worked with segregationist senators to oppose bussing in the 70s and 80s is going to be a champion of minorities?
"What about" plus the capitalism shit.Quote:
- Why do you think the guy who bragged about seeking social security cuts to balance the budget is going to be better for the working class?
Polls. Most Americans literally don't understand M4A or whatever you want to call universal health care is what we need, and then they read/listen to bad takes. And, as before, he's no champion.Quote:
-Why do you think a guy who recently implied he'd veto Medicare for All is going to be better for the working class?
I was wrong, this one's a valid question – even if his words in the Newsweek interview are being willfully misinterpreted here, and even if his words in the Newsweek interview are an even dumber justification.Quote:
- Why would a guy who advocated for the Iraq War (and recently said in an interview he supported it *because* he knew there were no WMD) be any less inclined toward foreign intervention?
I don't. I don't care about him and I don't think he's going to win. But he's the highest-profile person running against and the largest tiny middle finger I can give. Local votes still matter somewhat but, like I said, a presidential vote doesn't. The only way to actually "fix" things is to revolt in a real way – and not cowards with hunting rifles standing around a government building. So if you come at it from the angle of a vote for president being a way to fix things, or undo the damage Trump has done, then Biden isn't a great choice.Quote:
- Why do you think a guy for whom being a Republican is no obstacle for being in his cabinet or even his running mate is going to oppose conservative policy rather than advance it?
TLDR: He's not going to take care of what you think he's going to take care of but he isn't going to actively break the few good systems we have left.
I think if RBG is on her way out and the Dems can have that appointment it’d be much better since that’s a pretty long term decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
I’m not really convinced ppl know what tf they’re saying when they throw the term “bad” president is. Bush was literally Satan. Reagan was literally Saran. Obama and Clinton were soft willed. People are really mad at the system right now but it’s proven even a man addicted autocratic thinking can’t hold on to absolute power for too long. You people need to re-up Obamacare mostly. Biden might be a better candidate for that.
This is my view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
Precisely because the word genocide describes killings that are by design and not incompetence. That's what genocide means. Years ago when crafting language we said "what should we call it when people purposefully kill a specific group of people in mass?" and someone said, lets call that a genocide. Going top shelf with your words all the time makes them lose all meaning. Calling anyone who kills anyone else a murderer, is wrong. People who commit murder are murders. People who commit manslaughter are not murders. If you are a bus driver, and you fall asleep behind the wheel and kill everyone on board you are not a serial killer, even though your body count might be higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
Is a guy with $900 Million crazy super ultra mega rich? Oh my god yeah. From my view point there's no difference between him and Bill Gates in terms of power and quality of life, no measurable difference anyway. They will both never worry about money. Is the guy with $900 Million a Billionaire? No. The word billionaire means you have billions of dollars, not a lot of dollars. We should maybe strive to not to be so hyperbolic with our word choices.
This I agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
Disbanding task forces and committees and handle pandemics in advance is retarded, but he could not have foreseen COVID-19 and he was not planning for it to happen years in the future. In January and February when he was downplaying the virus, he might have actually believed it wasn't a big deal, which again makes him dumb, but I don't think he was planning for this.
If moving forward, he takes specific actions he knows will make this worse, and government goes along with it, because they figure trading 10% of our elderly for the economy is something they're willing to do, that would be genocide.
So, like, what's going on right now then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
I don't know about your State, but you can't walk around your neighborhood without a face mask here, evictions are postponed, your power and electricity can't be shut off. I'm being paid 2k every two weeks from Unemployment insurance to stay the fuck home and not infect people. We have schools closed, restaurants closed except for pick up, all non essential retail is shut down entirely. Hospitals are being given State and Federal money to fund work against COVID-19, all testing and treatment for COVID-19 is completely covered under the CARES Act, which also dumped billions into research and treatment. Productions of respirators is up about 200% nationally. Student loans are suspended. People are being told to shelter in place.
That's a lot of deliberate actions to try and fight this and saves lives.
Like there are people marching on capital buildings fully armed because they think we're doing too much and then there's people here thinking so little is being done it must be a genocide, in reality it's something in the middle.
Those people marching are idiots that a russian troll working out of florida has tricked into risking their lives to decide the US and get americans killed.
They do not represent natural pRt of american discourse.
I mean, yeah, my state has reopened most businesses with restrictions, with the general public consensus being that they know they aren't going to be able to pay unemployment out to everyone for the next year. I don't know if they specifically said those words. So people are compelled to work, it's not like they can refuse and collect free money. I don't expect that whole situation to improve, and we're seeing estimates that daily deaths will double in our state before August.
I refuse to believe that government leaders had no idea, but I don't know if it's more damning for them to have been ignorant or deliberately downplaying. I looked bad at my logs and I was talking with people about this on January 30th, and I don't actively seek out news. It was still low, but through February I was taking inventory for a month-long shelter-in-place. Then I did it and had to go back out before my government even made moves. My governor Kemp said on April 2nd that he didn't know it could be transmitted by asymptomatic people, when our country was hitting it's peak for daily new cases. If the only thing differentiation whether you want to call this a genocide or not is whether leadership is competent or not, I don't see a meaningful distinction in the results.
Fucking seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...my/2905990001/
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm
11% death rate for 65-85.
No issue here though, everything is just totally hunky dory and normal.
Good points all around. Media portrayals of emergency scenarios provide a cultural roadmap (pun!) of what a crisis SHOULD look like, in people’s minds. Therefore, when we approach a scenario that Hollywood didn’t prepare us for - the banality of staying at home and not being a furious armed avenger of freedom - many people don’t really know how to respond. So they take the frustration and end up doing dumb ass things that approximate their idea of what a crisis looks like, suiting up in cosplay and endangering the public.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliander
Here is Spain as if the end of April:Quote:
Originally Posted by Satsuki
0 to 9 years old. 0.3%
10 to 19 years old. 0.3%
20 to 29 years old. 0.2%
30 to 39 years old. 0.3%
40 to 49 years old. 0.6%
50 to 59 years old. 1.4%
60 to 69 years old. 4.6%
70 to 79 years old. 13.6%
80 to 89 years old. 20.7%
Over 90 years old. 21.2%
Is Spain also in a Genocide? Or maybe do the numbers point to people over 60 being significantly more at risk regardless of country or politics?
Here is a breakdown form John Hopkins that shows, amongst other things, case death rate overall.
The US has half the death rate of the UK, Italy, France, Belgium and almost half of Spain.
Are those countries in a super genocide?
No one said things are good. The term Pandemic already describes a horrible situation. It's not like things are either Genocide or Amazing, there's a lot of other possibilities.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...86929d4296.jpg
I love how this has become like playing Uzi in Rocks/Paper/Scissors as if predicating the idea of two things being similar on a history of similarity were some kind of logical fallacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliander
Yes, what about. What about all these times--just off the top of my head--that Biden has been a de facto Republican. I'm saying "these things seem the same" and you're telling me "yeah, but all you're doing is providing a list of specific historical instances where these things behaved identically."
Let's simplify it: Any federal government that hasn't taken/doesn't take appropriate measures is doing it deliberately. You want to call that a genocide, fine. You don't want to, also fine.
The key point is that, in the United States, President Trump's & the Republicans' actions are directly responsible for some number of deaths well above what it would have been if even Joe fucking Exotic had somehow won in 2016. He didn't issue a federal stay-at-home order, there's no national rent/mortgage freeze for both small businesses and workers, a one-time check for not enough was hard fought when it should have been a slam dunk recurrence for [x] months, benefits for actual essential workers at grocery stores and hospitals and whatnot, the testing response was too late... the list goes on and on.
My governor's response is how Trump should have reacted. His response is commendable, as is the response of several other governors. But President Trump pretended it wasn't an issue so he could later say he was distracted by impeachment, pretended it wasn't as big of a deal as it is, and continues to pretend we've done a good job nationally when we haven't. Governor Kemp in Georgia, like Dunlap was saying, pretended he didn't know it could be transmitted by asymptomatic people. Those bad actions are currently having & will continue to have a negative effect on our ability to get through this.
77k at 3pm eastern time. I'm not a betting man but if we had an adult President, I'm sure that number would be low 20s. That's 50k deaths I'm more than confident are the direct faults of Trump, the Republican Senate, and assholes like Kemp/Patrick/etc.
Because it doesn't matter with regards to his current trajectory and also I truly don't care about him. And, too, look at it this way – I'm more than happy to be entirely wrong and for those things to matter & factor into a shitty Joe Biden Presidency where he does Republican stuff. Proves he was the dick everyone says he was. I don't have any skin in protecting him from that.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
And, for clarification, you may actually care about those things. I think they sound disingenuous but please don't take my stance as invalidating your feelings.
Not talking about Spain, don’t apply your “if this than that” nonsense here. Which is why I supported the stats with an article about an American leader calling for the sacrifice of the elderly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Literally no one is talking about Spain in this thread. I have no idea what their political and economic situation is. I’m not qualified to analyze their news, politics, or media. I’m guessing you aren’t either, but who knows, maybe you’re live from Madrid rn. Since I don’t know anything about you.
Joe Biden will be the roger goddell of politics. Old white meat shield to take up space. He'll pander hard, as he is right now and do whatever the Focus groups and DNC tell him to do.
He will bullshit and lie, as he always has. He'll be benign and he would be better than trump.
Joe's problem is talking and letting loose the legitimatly concerning Jomentia.
Quimby V Abe Simpson 2020.
My point would be that in a Pandemic, a nation with a lower death rate than other nations is logically doing more to meditate deaths, or is at least more successful at doing so, than other nations. We were dog shit at stopping the spread initially, but as a nation a lot has been done to save lives.
I would assume any nation using this Pandemic to execute a Genocide would see higher than average death rates compared to similar nations, not lower.If the US is actively trying to kill seniors right now, they're doing a poor job of it. Even Canada has a higher death rate than we do and people are praising Trudeau, not claiming a Canadian Genocide.
Most of our Deaths are actually from New York and I don't think Coumo is trying to hurt anyone. He seems to really care about taking care of his state, not killing them.
Of course I do! Honestly, I just want someone to convince me to vote for Biden because I don't think I can convince myself. Not voting feels bad, but I will not vote for a Republican and, because of that list (and then some), I see only Republicans on the ballot...Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliander
Ah sorry, I realize now that's what you meant in your post. I obviously can't help you with it, I don't like the guy, I'm just extremely Orange Man Bad or TDS or whatever you wanna call it. MVS, however, put it quite well:Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
That may not be good enough but it's the best you'll get w/him.Quote:
Originally Posted by MVS
Fine robot. This will convince you Biden is the future.
https://youtu.be/acJrKgUCaw0
I get your position. But it’s just much more useful to conflate the “mass killing of a certain people by design” with “mass killing of a certain people by incompetence”. I think expanding the definition is good. The definition distinction of murder from manslaughter is there largely for legal prosecution. At the scale of a genocide I don’t think minute legal definition is necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Let my put it a thought to you in more constructive terms then: what is a more appropriate term than genocide to describe the death of thousands of a specific group that could have been avoided?
I largely don’t think the distinction matters. And yes Italy, UK, Iran, and Spain’s leadership likewise could be accused of exacerbating a genocide. Sure why not.
I think for the first time in our history we're in a position where science and the intelligence community could have given us the head start and information we need to stop this pandemic, that's a unique situation that has never happened in our history.
If anything we need to coin the manslaughter equivalent of Genocide.
Genoslaughter.
Sounds like semantics.
How many people have died from not having health care here? Anyone see any progress on that one?
Governors take most of the blame on this one. Cuomo did not shut down NY until late and his citizen's paid the price.
Unless i missed the part where trump mandated they stay open. States that have competent governors, hello Oregon, don't seem to have a lot of federal beef.
That liberals lamented Cuomo not being a presidential candidate while he watched his state turn into Mad Max is perplexing. Plenty of other blue states had much better responses. Why the gushing?
Because he isn't trump. Aka he's blameless.
BLUE NO MATTER WHO! DEFEAT THE CHEETO!
Why not "blue no matter who the fuck am i and where is my onion belt and i saw cornpop 2020"?
That works as well.
Sounds like Mexico. They run one corrupt president out of office, only to replace him with another corrupt president.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
They could have probably stopped it by turning on tracking on everyone's phone, pulled in credit card data with vendor addresses and cross referenced it with inflections.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
They could have nailed down exactly where everyone got it.
But that would have been a massive breach of privacy.
They could have also been getting ready to test everyone months ago, so those with the illness could have been cornteened sooner. Or halted travel from outside the country sooner. Or put a ban on mardi gras and other events sooner.
The worst part is knowing that we'll have just as lousy a response when the second wave hits. It actually looks like new cases are starting to tick up again, too. There aren't enough days in a row to be sure on the country level... but Florida, Georgia, Michigan, Texas, and Virginia are beginning their spikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
I’m very happy to be living in Canada. Even our conservative premier (equiv. of governor) in Ontario is behaving like a civilized human being. Toronto has not been hit hard at all.
The tech industry is pretty fucked. I’m hiring 4 new people but almost every company has laid off huge swaths of people.
Nick, can we change the name of the message board to this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/...d81?ri18n=true
It's the Huffington Post. They're not even close to a credible news source.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisco Bold
Yeah I thought 1/3 of cases being black people was low, since here in Georgia I had seen reporting that more than 80% of hospitalized cases were black. I haven’t seen an update death breakdown, but it does look like black cases account for over 33% and are the largest affected racial group.
Ignoring the bias of The Huffington Post, even they only said it's getting close based on what happens moving forward, which I've already agreed with.
Like all pandemics, who takes the brunt? The poor. No or limited healthcare. Have to work to survive. This is what 40 years of trickle down does.
Universal Healthcare should be a mandated right. I am sure that the DNC will get right on that shit after term limits and taxing apple and amazon.
Universal Healthcare will be the best thing to happen to big pharm and the sugar and restaurant industry.
You thought Americans were fat now, hold on to your butts.
Also while Universal Healthcare is absolutley the direction we need to move in, that every developed country with a higher Covid-19 death rate HAS Universal Healthcare shows that it's not the missing piece here in the US.
Maybe it would help with pre-existing conditions, which seems to be the biggest factor in deaths from covid.
Looks like the transcripts from that russia crap are out. Nothing burger with a side of banality.
Now it's Israel that helped trump win in 2016. :rolleyes:
something about quantity vs quality.
In my opinion, the issue with universal anything, when it comes from tax payer dollars, is that it has a budget. That budget sets the availability of care. This might not seem obvious because they aren't just going to turn people away. But it comes out in other ways like the number of staff, the number of beds, the number hospitals. You see the same thing with free college in places like India where there is an allotted number of spots and they start from the top GPAs or tests and work their way down. Its a very real possibility that an -A student won't get to be what they want if it its something that requires a specific degree.
Capitalism, when it is working, just feels needs. You want something, you pay for it. The higher the number of items purchased, the more the fixed cost of production is spread out and the lower the prices. But it hasn't worked that way in this country since the 60s. The people at the top of medicine and education are gaming the system.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...caid-2008-2018
https://www.edvisors.com/plan-for-co...ion-inflation/
The solution is either to make laws that punish the ever living fuck out of businesses and administrators for corruption or socialize these things and use actual science and math to manage them.
Neither are going to happen because those in power don't want their hands tide. That is the real reason the big wallets have worked so furiously to discredit science and math since the 60s. They don't like being told "no." They don't like being held accountable. They want systems set up to benefit elaborate conmen.
So you either end up with capitalism set up in a way that the people at the top can game. Or you end up with mismanaged and underfunded state systems that are also gamed by those at the top. Its all kept loose and broken so some people can manipulate them to their benefit.
Thats another thing to hate the baby boomers for. Their parents built a system on math and science to meet the demands of WW2 and baby boomers slowly dismantled it because they didn't like having their authority challenged.
Are there any credible news sources?Quote:
Originally Posted by BonusKun
LAWLQuote:
Originally Posted by MVS
Oh goodness, oh my what an injustice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fe 26
[emoji17]
Eh, you have to do something to keep people encouraged to pursue what they want out of life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
Do Americans still insist on wearing their filthy outdoor shoes in their homes?
You wanna buy me another pair of shoes?
Get the fuck out of here with that Japan shit, Drew.
LmfaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite
Because of his stupid press conferences, the contrast they made in the media to Trumps rather rambling ones at the same time. Media commentators lapped it up and now hardly anyone bats an eye when he publicly admits to being surprised that 66% of people in a recent sampling contracted the virus sitting at home under lockdown. He's an incompetent leader who's getting the Guiliani treatment post 9-11, and now apparently is trying to push Bill Gates to be the czar of some hypothetical digital New York future where classrooms are obsolete. I'm generalizing I know, but the guy is a blowhard, I can't stand his press conferences (and this isn't even a political thing, I tend to vote democratic) and he's as MUCH of a blowhard Trump is.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Robot Bit Me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
Civilized nations (asia, nordics, most commonwealth etc) just don’t wear their outdoor shoes inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite
I just wanted to see if you have come around to civility. Just a couple of country bumpkins braying “Well I d’unt pee on muh hands!” when asked if they wash their hands with soap and water after using the washroom.
I take my shoes off, if I’m not going back outside. I’ve been spraying my shoes with anti-bacterial spray, before entering the house. Once I’m done outside, the shoes come off immediately after that.
So you believe in ghost viruses.Quote:
Originally Posted by station82o
We have a spot in america for the shoes by the door. We use it to store our freedom guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
I think the virus is real and everyone needs to take it seriously when it comes to their own health, particularly if they have respiratory conditions or severe medical problems that extreme inflammation would exacerbate to a dangerous level. I just dont think any quarantines/lockdowns that went beyond the initial 2-4 week period ---- that were meant to slow the spread so medical supplies could be built up and delivered and to ensure hospitals wouldn't get overwhelmed ---- are going to succeed in doing anything but further crippling economies and ruining people's lives with job losses, financial peril, mental health problems, homelessness, etc etc. Not to mention the shockwaves that crippled economies of developed nations will have on the populations of developing nations who rely on external help with food/medicine/public health who will see that aid cut as a result.
New York City is a special case, because of its extreme population density, but that 66% of those sampled who were lockdown as much as possible still tested positive for the virus proves that there is no escaping the virus. No lockdown will work to bring infections to zero because we have no way of locking down every possible avenue of viral infection (ie grocery stores, hospitals, suppliers, gas stations still having to be open). Hypothetically the only way a lockdown could have achieved that is a synchronized lockdown of the entire country for a finite amount of time, and even then I don't think it would've worked because there are people who'd have to enforce that type of lockdown, which is impossible to achieve.
My point is that we're nearing mid-May now, and its becoming clear that as brutal as this virus has been in terms of impacting those most susceptible to its ill effects, its not nearly as deadly as ebola, there are not people keeling over the streets in plain sight, and hospital systems across the country clearly have the capacity to deal with the influx of any new patients and the supplies of PPE have greatly increased. For certain states to continue to stay locked down at this point makes absolutely no sense. It seems like some governors decided that "flatten the curve" meant to destroy the virus, but you can't achieve that. Since many of them are so keen on describing this situation in military terms ---- well, the virus won. China didn't let the world know on time, they allowed people to travel out of their country all over the world for months and months and its likely this thing was here as early as November/December/January. We're lucky that this Coronavirus isn't as deadly as say Ebola, which was able to be contained relatively early, but the Coronavirus is so damn infectious that there's simply nothing that will stop its spreading throughout the greater population. We ought to try not to devastate the financial capabilities of individuals, local/state governments, hospital systems, etc with lockdowns that make a terrible situation absolutely devastating. I'm sure mine is a minority opinion, I know, but this is the reality we're facing.
You still wearing your filthy outdoor pants inside, cheeseball?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
I don't disagree with that. I think there's only so far we can stretch the lockdown before it becomes catastrophic and if we are making use of that time to prepare that's one thing, but I don't really think we are at this point. I'm not convinced there's much avoiding the death at this point
You are the most fake, full of utter bullshit poster on this site, you know that? You diminish this place. These smarmy pretend elite posts beg for a fucking boot on the back of your neck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
Unfunny bootleg Biff motherfucker.
Actually, do catfish have necks?
I mean, it makes sense if you have dirt floors.
Too bougie for me.
I’m not sure suggesting that you take your shoes off indoors to practice good hygiene is quite the elitist jab that you think it is? Though of all the things I’ve ever posted that elicited a “holier than thou prick!” reaction this is one of the funniest.Quote:
Originally Posted by No One
You should have indoor guns, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by MVS
You don't know about the indoor guns?
Loser.
So something else funnier than Robobo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
I should clarify that I don't think you're elitist.
I think you lie about being elite. And you're right, you were just kindly informing everyone about shoe hygiene and not at all inflicting your tired, insufferable message board schtick on them.
Shit like that is why nobody comes back.
I think it says more about your mental state than mine to breakdown so magnificently at the “elitist” notion of keeping outdoor shoes.
Big talk for someone who doesn't know about the indoor guns.
Loser.
I don't really agree with Drew on a lot of stuff but he is right about that. Considering all the gross shit people have probably stepped on without noticing, The last thing I want to do is track that in my home.Quote:
Originally Posted by kedawa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
80,000 dead and the president of the United States is advertising the re-opening of his golf course.
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/att...1&d=1589203521
You bring up a good point. This part doesn't have to be difficult, though. We're expending effort to avoid helping people because [clutches pearls] rich folks might have to pay more in taxes to achieve it and oh goodness their hard-earned money.Quote:
Originally Posted by station82o
We could have done this, too, though with the rampant stupidity in this country I agree w/your concern about being able to enforce something like it. I'm in CT – blue state, responsible governor (at least regarding this virus), police stops to see if travelers have an essential business letter, etc. The times I've had to go out, more people have no mask than do, hardly anyone maintains 6 feet of space, people don't cover when they cough or sneeze, they're yelling at store employees for having to wait... it's a mess.Quote:
Hypothetically the only way a lockdown could have achieved that is a synchronized lockdown of the entire country for a finite amount of time
But NYC's 66% thing is a great measure – it means that a good percentage of people are either misrepresenting about staying home or they aren't doing as good of a job avoiding exposure.
Yeah, wait, are people arguing with him about taking shoes off in the house?Quote:
Originally Posted by BonusKun
Anyway, with Trump being a germaphobe and people a little too close to him testing positive, I wonder if he's experiencing any anxiety as a result?
If Trump is experiencing anxiety, it'll just manifest in other ways. He's not going to show it, not when his base is so vehemently in favor of ending lockdowns. See here's the danger for democrats ---- at this point, they're thinking the election will be a referendum on Trump's handling of the virus. But if more people lose their jobs in the coming weeks and months, they're going to eyeball who their governor is and what party is it that's responsible for them not being able to have kept their job by allowing businesses to open up soon. The states in favor of longer lockdowns are democratically controlled, and while they may feel that people are perceiving them as the responsible, competent ones, when it comes time to vote in November, a person's individual financial/economic state will matter more than anything else. They'll remember that Trump was in favor of reopening sooner and give him the nod. I don't like Trump myself, but I'm predicting the democrats overplay this situation, and they lose independent voters in swing states like Michigan and Pennsylvania whose governors seem to be the most hellbent on keeping the lockdowns going. Trump wins reelection.
Let's be clear: He's going to be reelected.
And yup. It's at once frustrating and disheartening to know that the dumb narratives from bad actors peddled by irresponsible news programs will only lead to the Democrats – who think this will count against him. People lose their jobs because of the necessary restrictions, but because a legitimate bill to help would never make it through the Senate to Trump's desk and Democrats are still too focused on playing fair to push a clear message pointing that out, they can easily blame the shelter in place orders.Quote:
Originally Posted by station82o
It's so stupid and there's no fix. We just have to hit rock bottom, unfortunately.
And then you have to elect Dwayne Johnson president.
If there was a credible third party ---- say one that was more based on realistic political ideas (pulling from left and right.... I guess a center party) that could be on the ballot in all 50 states and run a charismatic candidate, I think the political malaise in the country right now would be enough to have a lane open for that kind of upset. In other years probably not, but right now there seems to be enough equalized discontent with the two candidates that I could see it happening.
You don't even really have a left wing party to begin with.
Let the democrats be the centrist party for corny family men, and create something left of that.
The results of that ethnographic research have come in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
looooooool
Coronavirus put a hold on onsite research.
Yeah, for most people, the economic effects are going to feel a lot more "real" than the medical effects. Half the people you know are out of work, but maybe a friend of a friend died of corona. Conservatives are already broadly disinclined to think/care about things that don't impact them personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by station82o
150,000 people die a day, you'd need to process the deaths of 2 people every second to be able to care about all the people that die every day. It's just not possible and it's a very good evolutionary trait that we are able to not stress over the lives and deaths of every other member of our species. The key is how far your empathy stretches and whether you're willing to make trade offs for it. You should want to do everything you can to save your child's life and at the same time, for your mental health alone, maybe you shouldn't worry about the Mongolian's massive poverty barrier, because you can't do shit about it and you've never helped or hurt them, and that's ok. Not everything on Earth has to be your responsibility.
People like to give others shit like they don't care about other people if they hold certain beliefs, but when was the last time you donated to a charity to help the homeless in a city you don't live in? When was the last time you donated your time to help the homeless in the city you fucking live in? There are choices that directly hurt people and choices that just don't help people, and it's difficult to navigate the differences between those sometimes. I'm sure lots of people that want to open things up just see more people suffering around them because of the shut down and want to help the people they can see suffering.
This Pandemic is a very unique event in all of our lives, I've never had to watch so many people I know personally struggle financially,emotionally and with their mental health all because of a sickness that has effected ZERO people in my extended friends and family network. It takes a lot of critical thinking and a type of self sacrifice we didn't need before, to be able to step back and go "this isn't about me right now, but I can make choices that directly hurt people and even if I don't know them I need to be the kind of person that helps others when I can, not hurts them".
It's hard for some people. We should acknowledge that it's hard for them.
We should have shown the dead and dying on tv. That got americans to take Vietnam seriously. It would have worked here too. You show a dead grandmother or a 5 year old on a ventilator and people's reptilian brain starts to get in line with their higher brain functions.
Or shit, shine a camera up in that uhaul with 100 corpses. Put that pile of bodies on fox news. See if they can spin that.
But we wont, because of HEPA. CNN might but they are into grief porn. Not anything actually helpful.
It doesnt really matter if you can process the death toll. The point is that their is a Harry Potter sized snake out there killing people. Everyone is telling you the snake is out there. Do you or do you not want the snake to kill you? Do you plan to bring that fucker in the house to kill your family?
We could have stopped this but we dont have the will for it it.
We should have had intelligence in china. We should have known sooner. We should have shut down flights from countries that are exposed. We should have had tests ready at customs and tested every mother fucker getting off the plain and then held the whole aircraft if anyone was sick.
We should have gave everyone ubi. Shut down everything. Had just people in hazmat suits delivery food and fuel.
We've known since at least Bush jr this was coming.
No one really cares. We have a fast and loose society built in a way to benefit old white conmen and little else.
It's also good to know that the America of 1939 is dead. The greatest generation that saved the world and everyone still waves their dick over is no longer.
We are no longer strong and United. We would never have sacrificed to that level. We would not have done scrap drives. We would not have rationed food and rubber and fuel. We would not have gone to bed early. We would not have quit our jobs to enlist or work in war factories. We would not have spent our money on war bonds. We wouldn't have sent care packages to men at the front.
We're selfish cowards now. We'd never do any of that now. We cant even keep our ass at the house.
Joe was on the news today.
https://youtu.be/nMRda_3vwr8
Strategy seems to be trump sucks is my final answer to every question.
Little odd he denies knowing anything about Flynn and then admits it 30 seconds later. Illegal investigation?
But Democrats, in characteristic fashion, aren't proposing a serious alternative. The Biden interview MVS posted above is a microcosm of the whole Democratic platform: "Orange man bad" is not a plan. Nobody is seriously advocating for the shutdown to go on long enough for a vaccine to be not only developed, but manufactured and distributed, so all the Democrats have is "Dying for Q2 earnings projections is wrong! We will fight for your right to die for Q3 earnings projections!"Quote:
Originally Posted by station82o
There is a way to open the economy and keep us all safe, but we've made it clear we're not going to have federal workers essentially seize mass food production like Vietnam (perhaps the biggest and most under-reported Corona success story in the world) did or even use the National Guard or police force to distribute subsidized food like China did. There is a way to keep us safe, but we've made it clear we'd never compromise the radical laissez-faire hellscape we've created. The Democrats could make a leftward pivot to propose a serious alternative, but their role as a party is performatively to reduce the speed at which we're hurtling rightward while absolutely halting any movement leftward. They've proven time and time again that they're unwilling to capitulate to progressives even if lives depend on it.
It doesn’t really feel like he’s running for president.Quote:
Originally Posted by MVS
It never did.
If Biden doesn’t pick Whitmer for VP, he’s dumb as shit. She is all over the news, proving her grit, would make a great foil for Trump, would rally the base, and she’s not bad looking for him to fondle.