Science Vs God?????

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Originally posted by burgundy
7s: Thanks for the answer re: Revelation. I had misunderstood that passage for a long time, although I suppose a close reading would have cleared that up.

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No prob.

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I believe that people who generally do what you might consider evil in the name of faith do so with the utmost of faith. You and CV might not agree with me, but you also don't condemn me as a heretic or a blasphemer. Not everyone of "faith" is as forgiving as you.

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Ugh, it pisses me off to know that this is true. I never assume I am right on anything because there is still a TON of stuff I don't know. All I do is share from my heart what I believe to be true and if another doesn't agree, so be it. I may try to persuade you to see it my way and believe what I believe, as is the commission of all Christians, but I shouldn't feel compelled to condemn you and call you a heathen or a blasphemer simply because you don't agree. I can't for the life of me understand "christians" who act this way. Chances are they may really be Christians, but their spirit is in the wrong place if they are.

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Osama bin Laden may have political motives for his actions, but it's difficult to believe that Muhammed Atta and the 18 other hijackers were acting on anything but faith. Not your faith, but theirs.

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Yes, excellent point. Self-sacrifice on this level requires faith. You have to believe in something far greater than yourself to be willing to give up your own life for any cause. Even if the motivation is selfish (sex with virgin nymphs for instance) faith is still required. Man will not often sacrifice himself without reason.

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My problem with dogmatic, fundamentalist faiths is that, by their very nature, they cannot coexist.

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Agreed. Most theologians will agree that many parts of the Bible were specifically culture-of-the-times oriented and should not be taken literally.

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Agreed, on the possible results of proof of God. Silly humans, will we ever learn? Totally out of left field - but I believe that, if we are ever encountered by extraterrestrial life more advanced than us, they will be benevolent, because malevolent civilizations would have long since wiped themselves out. Unless they're like the Borg.

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WE ARE THE CHRISTIANS! YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED! RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!:evil:

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IronPlant - I completely agree. In fact, many prominent Christian scholars want to drop the fundamentalist interpretation of Creation, claiming that it actually discredits the faith as a whole. Like you, I'm attacking fundamentalism, not faith as a whole.

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Ahhh, I understand now. Thanks for clearing that up.

*puts away scythe*;)

*has nothing else to add for now* :)

Same here.:D

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Originally posted by Captain Vegetable
Exept that Occam's Razor is thoroughly ignored in any other case in science.

Your statement is null because the entire scientific community ignores Occum concerning creation. They prefer the more complex explanation of the Big Bang and evolution and the inherantly impossible circumstances surrounding them, rather than God created everything.

You can't just evoke it when it suits you.

So, the real definition of Occum's Razor is this: The most simple answer is usually the correct one...but only if it suits me!



No. The book of Revelation alone forbids the adding to and taking away from it\'s pages. Not the rest of the Bible.

Besides, am I adding anything? Or am I simply deftly reading between the lines?

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Poor old Occam... getting tossed around like this... it's all Contact's fault!

You see, you're assumeing the easiest to explain (God saying let there be light) is the right one because of occams razor - but there are qualifiers for Mr. Occam. Being simply put is not the only role a theory needs to fulfill. It needs QUANTITATIVE eveidence. Even without this, or a strong lack of this at best, Creation Theory is still widely reguarded. The 'Creation' of the universe has so many hazy spots you can't really begin to fully assert any full claim... but of all the theories with qualitative evidence - big bang works best and is still best supported by studies of micro and macrocosom. Unfortunately it implies that all life eveolved from Hydrogen atoms which later made first generation stars (all actually obeying easy to understand and well documented classical physics) and created Heavier elements inside them (carbon, oxygen and nitrogen dominantly.. along with a by product of helium). First generation stars supernova - sheding of thier outer gas layer now rich with heavier elements - and most of the Nebulae you see pictures of (the pretty clouds in space) are ovens for new stars, and the debris rings that love them as well. Debris rings obey conventional laws of gravity, so the most gravitational bodies attract more material to them. Over hundreds of millions of years, atoms gather around atoms to make planetesimals, early, asteroid-like planets comprised of these early basic elements. So, the survival of the most gravitational begins again. Planetesimals collide with each other createing heat, combineing elements to make compound molecules, and releaseing gasses (from said heat). Should a planet be too small and warm it will not hold the gases released. But if it is a bit larger - it will retain an atmosphere and any number of things can happen from there.

The odd of this process createing a planet like Earth is slim, by our human standards... but given the richeness, the infinite combinations of gasses and materials and the overwhelming vastness of the universe: there could very well be a multitude of lifeforms and thier harboring planet(oid)s. The very universe is unlikely:

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Originally posted at: Short News.com

Scientists of a Californian university have published a book about the "disturbing implications of a cosmological constant".

It says that chances a Universe like ours can exist are incredibly low. The authors say that if theories now accepted are right we certainly live in the first Universe of this kind, because the initial conditions occur rarely.

Even a first case of a Universe like ours is unlikely. The scientists suggest there is something fundamental missing in modern natural science. They don't believe this "something" is a power like a "god".

http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cf...4373&u_id=8242

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But that only tells us that we have so much more to learn.

7's - I admire your candor and, balls to admit that there is a posibility that you could be wrong as I can too perhaps. Better still you defend (wrong word, maybe - 'present'?) your position well. I can doubt the things you say but I don't know if I can doubt your faith. In short - Good Show Lad.

ºTracer

Every answer leads to ten more questions.

I don't think we'll ever figure it all out.

Amen. :)

I agree

Am I the only one who stopped reading this thread completely because all the answers were extremely long and boring?

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Originally posted by Rich
Am I the only one who stopped reading this thread completely because all the answers were extremely long and boring?

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*takes out Troll-to-English dictionary*

"I'm trolling."

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Originally posted by Master of 7s
Let no one say when he is tempted "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full grown, brings forth death.
James 1:13-19

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um sure James....God just has his friend Satan do it for him....


"One day the angels came to present themselves to the Lord and Satan the Accuser was with them...then the Lord asked Satan, "Have you noticed my servant Job? He is the finest man in all of the earth...he fears God and will have nothing to do with evil."

Satan replied to the Lord, "yes Job fears God, but not without good reason...you have made him rich in everything he does, but take away everyhing he has, and surely he will curse you to your face....All right you may test him, do with him as you please, the Lord said to Satan, but spare his life."

Excerpts from th Book of Job

nice.

and i could quote some strange sayings from Jesus in the NT to counter what James wrote but i dont feel like it right now.