Any VF4 pros out there?

Okay, so I finally picked up a PS2. I've been playing VF4 in the arcade alot recently, and I had to have it at home and I gotta say, having it to mess around with makes all the difference. A couple of friends and I played it - no joke - 8 hours straight the day I got it. I don't even remember the last game I played for that long in one sitting. The tutorial finally explains things I've never gotten about this series despite having played since the first installment. I wish Sega'd treated earlier games in the series like they mattered, as they obviously have with this one. Either way, it's dethroned Soul Calibur as my personal favourite 3D fighter. I thought I'd miss the evade button, but the 8-way run is handled well, even though it's tough to dodge into the screen.

But the thing I can't get down is Akira. Specifically, the Akira Spear and Stun Palm of Doom chains. I know the inputs are insanely short, as in 1/60th of a second insane. I've got a decent arcade stick, but I can only pull them off one time in like 50. Is there some sort of trick to pulling them off reliably? Or do I just have to spend hour after hour smashing my stick side-to-side furiously until I can pull it off? I won't feel like a real gamer until I can do them...

I just got this game too and I love it. I don't think its dethroned Soul Calibur but I've only really played Jacky so far. I like finding new clothes in Kumite mode. One of my favorite tricks is after you get to 1st Dan is to hold P and K while selecting a character and keep holding it till the game starts. Your character will be modeled from Virtua Fighter 1! The water effects in the game are great, and Lau's stage is incredible. It seems Akira is definetely the best character.

I don't think Akira's the best character by any stretch, he's just the most hardcore and mastering him is one of the great feats in gaming. Jacky feels like he's really been changed from 3tb, but definitely for the better. But that might be my imagination, since I never played him much before.

Lei Fei seems great, too - he has combos that can keep an opponent stunned for great lengths of time - too bad he lacks any real power hits, and his multiple stances aren't much good against an in-your-face opponent. For some reason, Aoi seems worse off. Maybe it's just me, but in 3tb I was pretty dang good with her, but I can't seem to land any reversals or do much with her in this one. Lion seems to have gained quite a few good moves, and his ground game is great for annoying the hell out of your opponent. Sarah's new moves make her less lame, too. Wolf and Jeffry seem to have suffered from the new 3D movement - it's alot more difficult to get in position and land their big throws, although Wolf has some great dodge moves that make up for it. Kage's new stance is decent, but nothing special. He does have some great new moves though, especially on the ground.

Lau seems obscenely simple in 4; he really only has 3 or 4 worthwhile ways of attacking - definitely a character for the beginner. Shun, on the other hand, seems to have recieved the greatest overhaul. His multiple stances flow together better, and he has what feels like a vast arsenal of combinations, moves and command throws in any situation. Pai seems pretty much the same, with a counter stance and a couple of new moves that don't do much.

I haven't played alot of Vanessa yet, but she feels kinda like a Tekken character, which isn't a good thing. Judging by her move list, there's alot to her, though. I can't say I'm sad Taka-Arashi's gone; he was a pretty one dimensional fighter, but in a game with so few characters it's a shame to take one out.

Actually, that's another question - who are the characters that win the most at tourneys? Reno?

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But the thing I can't get down is Akira. Specifically, the Akira Spear and Stun Palm of Doom chains. I know the inputs are insanely short, as in 1/60th of a second insane. I've got a decent arcade stick, but I can only pull them off one time in like 50. Is there some sort of trick to pulling them off reliably? Or do I just have to spend hour after hour smashing my stick side-to-side furiously until I can pull it off? I won't feel like a real gamer until I can do them...

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It's all about timing. You can't mash these commands out or buffer them way ahead of time. For DLC, there is a rhythm to it. Some people do the first 2 parts (DF+K+G, F+P) as one move then they do the bodycheck portion (B, F, F+P+K). By the time the F+P comes out, your input of the bodycheck must be completed. For the SPOD, when the the palm (P+K+G) hits the opponent, quickly input the 2nd part (B, DF+P+G) and 3rd part (B+P) as one move.

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I don't think Akira's the best character by any stretch, he's just the most hardcore and mastering him is one of the great feats in gaming.

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Actually, the concepts behind Akira's play are very simple IF you understand how to play VF. The only thing hard about him is mastering his commands and combos.

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Actually, that's another question - who are the characters that win the most at tourneys?

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Usually, you see Lau, Wolf and Jacky winning. Akira is a stronger character but he hasn't won an official tournament.

Strider: Let me invite you to our next TO tournament. You'll see the power of...er.. just about everyone. :) iirc it's going down this Saturday or Sunday. If you email me at reno@fighters.net I can give you the info for it.

And Shou is right, most tournies are won by a Lau or Jacky or Wolf. I think in the unofficial character rankings Lau is the best with Akira coming second. Shou is also right about DLC and SPOD. You need to think of them as two part moves, not three part moves. Personally I still can't get it down consistently, but then again... I don't play Akira. :) I can do his knee on command though! :p

I think Akira is probably left untouched until you understand the general engine of VF4. Try using someone that'll let you get used to the game, maybe like Wolf or Lau. They'll let you learn the game while still being able to give you a bunch of wins. Wolf's full charge P+K, f+P, d/b+P+K+G rocks yo! 55% life gone! :D

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Originally posted by Shou-sama


It's all about timing. You can't mash these commands out or buffer them way ahead of time. For DLC, there is a rhythm to it. Some people do the first 2 parts (DF+K+G, F+P) as one move then they do the bodycheck portion (B, F, F+P+K). By the time the F+P comes out, your input of the bodycheck must be completed. For the SPOD, when the the palm (P+K+G) hits the opponent, quickly input the 2nd part (B, DF+P+G) and 3rd part (B+P) as one move.

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Hey, thanks! That's the best explanation I've seen of the timing so far. I hadn't thought of not returning the stick to neutral after df K+G in the spear.

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Actually, the concepts behind Akira's play are very simple IF you understand how to play VF. The only thing hard about him is mastering his commands and combos.

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I think his reversals are pretty integral to his character, since his ordinary strikes don't have alot of speed or priority to get you out of a jam. That's one part of Akira that takes a fair knowledge of the game to implement properly. He also has moves that are just ridiculous - like his rising knee which requires you to tap guard for a single frame. But yeah, his command strikes are mostly pretty similar.

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Usually, you see Lau, Wolf and Jacky winning. Akira is a stronger character but he hasn't won an official tournament.

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Jacky I can see, he's quick and probably plays the meanest high-low-mid game. Wolf obviously has the panoply of throws from almost any position to make him tough to predict or counter. But Lau? But he's so...basic. I'd have thought anyone familiar with his repertoire could block/reverse him pretty easily.

I'm not very good at VF, but I usually use Lei Fei when I play. He's awesome, especially against button mashers, because you never know what the hell he's doing with his stances if you don't know the character and his moves. And he just chains them together so freaking fluidly, so you look cool using him.

Wolf and Lau are probably my least favorite opponents. Maybe because their moves ares so simple and are pretty strong.

(NOTE: I've only played it on the PS2)

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Originally posted by Reno
Strider: Let me invite you to our next TO tournament. You'll see the power of...er.. just about everyone. :) iirc it's going down this Saturday or Sunday. If you email me at reno@fighters.net I can give you the info for it.

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Well, I've got a friend's birthday this weekend - I think saturday - but if it's sunday I'll definitely try to make it.

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And Shou is right, most tournies are won by a Lau or Jacky or Wolf. I think in the unofficial character rankings Lau is the best with Akira coming second. Shou is also right about DLC and SPOD. You need to think of them as two part moves, not three part moves. Personally I still can't get it down consistently, but then again... I don't play Akira. :) I can do his knee on command though! :p

I think Akira is probably left untouched until you understand the general engine of VF4. Try using someone that'll let you get used to the game, maybe like Wolf or Lau. They'll let you learn the game while still being able to give you a bunch of wins. Wolf's full charge P+K, f+P, d/b+P+K+G rocks yo! 55% life gone! :D

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Well, I think I have a fair grounding in the engine (not great, I can't reverse or evade at will) since I've been playing (though not religiously) since the first VF, but I'm sure if I play anyone really good then I'm in for a schooling. I actually find Wolf kinda tough; he's so slow that unless you have great timing with his throws (or cheesy evade->p+k+g) it's easy to get pinned down by a button mashing Kage or Pai. I like using Lion, since he's got the speed to hang with just about anyone, and his combos are great and mostly guaranteed, especially if you can land anything that generates a spinning fall.

I use Lau alot, but I find him pretty predictable - I have to rely on his starter -> ppp down+k chain often. I also find his moves that involve him turning his back are pretty worthless against somebody who can counter quickly out of a block. I'll try getting ol' Jerky down - he seems like my best bet.

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I think his reversals are pretty integral to his character, since his ordinary strikes don't have alot of speed or priority to get you out of a jam. That's one part of Akira that takes a fair knowledge of the game to implement properly. He also has moves that are just ridiculous - like his rising knee which requires you to tap guard for a single frame. But yeah, his command strikes are mostly pretty similar.

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Actually, his regular counters are really only used in defensive situations like with counter/double throw escape. I use them in battle to reverse half circular risings or other occasions but the risk (you can eat a 40-50% counter hit combo) vs the reward (30 damage) isn't really worth it. I like the mental damage which is why I use it and I can guess what the opponent does in certain situations pretty well. The sabaki counter (B+P+K+G) is pretty good to use since it can net you a free SPOD or damaging combo but again the risk is great.

Playing VF at a proficient level is a combination of 3 things, knowledge of the game, execution of moves/combos and the ability to read what your opponent will do. Akira requires you to do these 3 things at a decent level to be successful. Many of his big moves are slow but his standing and crouching punch are fast as well as his double palm which is the fastest mid hit in the game and reaches halfway across the screen. The knee isn't that important to his game but it's quite impressive to see (I love doing a guard break and then knee combo if the opponent can't struggle well).

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But Lau? But he's so...basic. I'd have thought anyone familiar with his repertoire could block/reverse him pretty easily.

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Lau is basic but strong. His hits hurt, his throws hurt and he recovers from a lot of his moves quickly. Basically, he has a hurting answer for every situation.

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The tutorial finally explains things I've never gotten about this series despite having played since the first installment.

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...See? I told you. :p

Anyway, reading this thread only makes me want VF4 more. Still no news on a Evolution home (X-Box) port, so I think I may want to finally drop the money for a PS2. At least, after Ikaruga and KoF '01.

Lau has f+P, P and b,f+P! You should see the kind of stuff you could get from those two moves alone! :D

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Originally posted by Shou-sama


Actually, his regular counters are really only used in defensive situations like with counter/double throw escape. I use them in battle to reverse half circular risings or other occasions but the risk (you can eat a 40-50% counter hit combo) vs the reward (30 damage) isn't really worth it. I like the mental damage which is why I use it and I can guess what the opponent does in certain situations pretty well. The sabaki counter (B+P+K+G) is pretty good to use since it can net you a free SPOD or damaging combo but again the risk is great.

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Hahaha, I guess I just live in a fantasy world where one day I'll be able to play a perfect round with Akira or Aoi and reverse everything. But you're right about the viability of them; I guess I just love the psychological effect of smashing your opponent across the ring as well.

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Playing VF at a proficient level is a combination of 3 things, knowledge of the game, execution of moves/combos and the ability to read what your opponent will do. Akira requires you to do these 3 things at a decent level to be successful. Many of his big moves are slow but his standing and crouching punch are fast as well as his double palm which is the fastest mid hit in the game and reaches halfway across the screen. The knee isn't that important to his game but it's quite impressive to see (I love doing a guard break and then knee combo if the opponent can't struggle well).

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Yeah, it's only impressive if your opponent knows how tough it is though, heh. His double palm may be fast in execution, but inputting the command takes a little while. I realise there's a way to buffer the charge D part of it, but it still doesn't seem like something you can pull out at will.

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Lau is basic but strong. His hits hurt, his throws hurt and he recovers from a lot of his moves quickly. Basically, he has a hurting answer for every situation.

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Yeah, I definitely noticed that part. df,df+p -> ppk alone seems to take off almost half your opponent's life as a counter.

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originally posted by Tain
...See? I told you.

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You did?

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Anyway, reading this thread only makes me want VF4 more. Still no news on a Evolution home (X-Box) port, so I think I may want to finally drop the money for a PS2. At least, after Ikaruga and KoF '01.

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I was in the same boat as you - I was gonna wait and see if Evolution landed on Xbox, but I cracked. I decided I didn't feel like waiting a year for it. I have no complaints about the PS2 itself; it makes PS games look better, and it'll let you play Contra, Suikoden, Rygar, Shinobi etc. this fall. And there seems to be a fair chance we'll see a domestic version of KoF 2001 for it, which I may wait for (hey, Sega ditched me way before I ditched them).

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Originally posted by Reno
Lau has f+P, P and b,f+P! You should see the kind of stuff you could get from those two moves alone!

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You'll have to show me sometime.

I will rule all of you foolios with Akira. No one can withstand the onslaught I bring to the fight. Fools will be recognized as fools, and I will be known as the GREATEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

Yea...Akira's the character I use. He's the best player in the game in my opinion.

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Originally posted by StriderKyo
I haven't played alot of Vanessa yet, but she feels kinda like a Tekken character, which isn't a good thing.

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That hurts me. One day I'll be decent at the game, and then I'll show all you little people!

Gah, I tend to do worse at 3D fighting games because of my reliance on reaction over prediction.

I don't actually know how much teckin' Vanesxa's got in her, but she has the same punch combo as that undead Brian somethingorother guy who looks like Rutger Hauer, and some teckinesque kicks goin' on.

I'm starting to appreciate the anticipation game over the "hey, he's jumping at me, I should do an uppercut soon" thing. And there's plenty of reaction to be had; after the 4th or 5th hour a mind-meld thing starts happening and you can "feel" the moves coming...I just need to expand my repertoire of moves and strategies, and increase my reaction time to make it all come together. It's certainly not much more difficult than SF3 parrying - now that takes some anticipation.

The anticipation in 2D fighters is different then in 3D fighters because the characters themselves respond quicker. You can do something like the "jumping, so I perform uppercut" in something like SFIII, but in 3D fighters you would have to guess your opponent's move and then perform the countermove, instead of actually being able to wait a split-second into their move (to see what it is) to react.

Anticipation is also hard for me (as it's designed this way) because there's many different moves that can be done at the end of combos or stopped and then switched completely. Me and my friends do a lot of this switching around at random, so just knowing the first few moves of a set doesn't really tell much about what's coming (could be high, could be low, could be cancelled and then thrown).

I also just plain need more work, as I've learned a lot more moves lately but don't how to implement them all properly. I still suck at switching back and forth in stances at the right time with Vanessa, and I can't use her offensive stance very well. I do love how switching to it moves her slightly back, I use that to take her just out of range of certain moves and then switch back to give off a beating (or a nice little b,f,p,p,p,k).

Well, i'm what ppl would call a "Defensive" player. I have become very proficient with Pai and Aoi. (just wish i had some human players around) Counters and Reversals with a quick offense is my favorite type of character. I dont like Akira as much because I find him to be.....slow. But thats just me.

Although I said i was a defensive player, Sarah is the primary character that i use. Non stop offense and can be unpredictable when mastered. Kage is a close second. But I would need a LOT of time to master.

I probably wont touch the other characters until I'm ready with this team I have going now.