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I am hoping to expand some of my gaming knowledge by going back and collecting for one of the pre-NES systems. I had a 2600 that I got when I was about 4, but that is my only exposure to gaming at home until the NES. Steer me in the right direction, boys.
The coleco is the way to go IMO. The graphics were lots better and you can even get an adapter to play the atari games on it. The coleco versions of Donkey Kong and DK jr., Pitfall, Zaxxon are great. I also recommend Pepper 2 for a fun pac man type game.
There was this game where you were a guy with a jetpack on and you traveled on cliff sides ands stuff that was really fun, but I can't think of it's name right now. I'll go through my colection and try to figure it out.
The 7800 isn't pre-NES.
The Colecovision is the best early '80's system if we're not counting computers.
And the list is missing:
Magnavox Odyssey 1 and 2
Atari 5200
GCE Vectrex
Milton Bradley Microvision
Bally Professional Arcade/Astrovision Astrocade
RCA Studio II
Emersion Arcadia 2001/Leisurevision
Fairchild Channel F
There\'s also the Sega SG-1000 which would technically be pre-NES since it was released a few months before the Famicom.
The nice thing about the 2600 (and I assume the 7800, though I don't really know), is you can plug Genesis controllers into it. No modification needed. The B button is the fire button.
This is a nice boon because the controllers on those classic systems leave much to be desired.
I use my Genesis controllers for everything that will take them: Atari machines, SMS, C64, etc.
Colecvision is great but the controller is a pitiful piece of junk that will reduce your hand to a claw.
2600 is clearly the way to go. There are just so many great titles, and a ton of stuff that's just fun to experience and play around with. Make sure you pick up a copy of Yar's Revenge and enjoy :)
7800 is not pre-NES, although it was ready to go way before. The only console to have a version of Food Fight and it's damn fun. Worth owning the system for.
If you can pick up an Atari 400/800/XE computer, you'll have some of the very best versions of the classics on a handy small cartridge format.
Some thoughts of mine...
Atari 2600 - Being the most popular, it has the most quantity and many great games. Since it's older than the most of its competitors, the other guys often have better ports of games. But the 2600 joysticks often control better than other machines' controllers.
I recommend:
Yars' Revenge
Super Breakout
Star Voyager
Ms. Pac Man
Wizard of Wor
Combat
Frogger
Pitfall!
Space Invaders
TRON: Deadly Discs
Jungle Hunt
The Empire Strikes Back
Atari 5200
I recommend:
Berzerk - complete with voices
Rescue on Fractalus - George Lucas approved 3d goodness
Congo Bongo
Mario Bros
H.E.R.O.
Kangaroo
Defender
Joust
Dig Dug
Star Raiders
Centipede
Millipede
The Intellivision lacks in arcade ports compared to Atari and Coleco but it has excellent first-party stuff.
I recommend:
TRON: Deadly Discs - My favorite pre-NES console game
Demon Attack - The best version of it by far
Star Strike - Awesome 3d shooter
Dungeons & Dragons - Amazing 1st-person dungeons
Night Stalker
Lock N Chase
Astrosmash
Mission X
Odyssey2
I recommend:
K.C. Munchkin - Great Pac Man clone
Cosmic Conflict
The Colecovision almost foreshadows the next few eras with its strong emphasis on Nintendo and Sega arcade ports. The Colecovision is more powerful than its competition and often has the best versions of games.
I recommend:
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Zaxxon
Space Panic
Smurf
Carnival
Antarctic Adventure
Oils Well
Congo Bongo
Gorf
Lady Bug
The Vectrex is awesome for vector-graphics lovers like myself. The built-in game Mine Storm is a total Asteroids rip off but it's much better than playing the shitty version of Asteroids on the VCS. Games like Frogger look messed up in vectors but most of the games on the system are shooters which look great.
Oh, and Javon, that jet pack game is probably H.E.R.O.
Dude, you can get all three with just about every game for like $20. No need to sweat about which one.
Quote:
The nice thing about the 2600 (and I assume the 7800, though I don't really know), is you can plug Genesis controllers into it. No modification needed. The B button is the fire button.
That's pretty nifty. I had no idea.Quote:
I use my Genesis controllers for everything that will take them: Atari machines, SMS, C64, etc.
I like playing games that were released in my lifetime. :)
Just for the record, I know that the 7800 was post-NES. However, since it is backwards compatible, it seems silly to get a 2600 instead.
Yep, that's the one. Thanks for the update.Quote:
Originally posted by NeoZeedeater
Oh, and Javon, that jet pack game is probably H.E.R.O.
Quote:
Originally posted by NeoZeedeater
Some thoughts of mine...
(A)Atari 2600 - Being the most popular, it has the most quantity and many great games. Since it's older than the most of its competitors, the other guys often have better ports of games. But the 2600 joysticks often control better than other machines' controllers.
I recommend:
Yars' Revenge
Super Breakout
Star Voyager
Ms. Pac Man
Wizard of Wor
Combat
Frogger
Pitfall!
Space Invaders
TRON: Deadly Discs
Jungle Hunt
The Empire Strikes Back
(B)The Colecovision almost foreshadows the next few eras with its strong emphasis on Nintendo and Sega arcade ports. The Colecovision is more powerful than its competition and often has the best versions of games.
I recommend:
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Zaxxon
Space Panic
Smurf
Carnival
Antarctic Adventure
Oils Well
Congo Bongo
Gorf
Lady Bug
(c)The Vectrex is awesome for vector-graphics lovers like myself. The built-in game Mine Storm is a total Asteroids rip off but it's much better than playing the shitty version of Asteroids on the VCS. Games like Frogger look messed up in vectors but most of the games on the system are shooters which look great.
(a) I'd add to the Atari 2600 list:
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Vanguard
Phoenix
Super Breakout
Warlords
Decathlete
Missile Command
Omega Race (Quite an amazing port, but you need the controller adapter, for the extra trigger.
Sprint
(B) Don't forget Sega's Gran Prix, an excellent arcade port to the Colecovision. Also add Popeye on that list.
(C) The Vectrex also had arcade ports of Star Trek, Rip-Off, and Berzerk.
I've been meaning to get a Colceovision for some time now. I'm dying to play Venture again.
The 7800 is backward compatible? Holy shit! I gotta get me one of dem der Ataris den! :)
Omega Race was decently ported to the VCS? Cool.
It's one of my favorite early '80's games. I have the Vic 20 version which is amazing and even better than the C64 one.
You guys are punks.
Vectrex was the shit. Nothing else came closer to having an arcade in your room. I love that thing.
I second the Atari 7800 vote. Food Fight really does rock, as does Impossible Mission, Joust, Galaga, and last but not least...
NINJA GOLF!!!
Plus, the entire VCS library opens up to you. Some of my personal favs:
Seaquest
Kaboom!
Centipede/Millipede
River Raid
Megamania
Cosmic Ark
Adventure
Hangman :D
Pong.
its not old school, its pre-school.
Dammit, 7800 doesn't count! It's post NES by like a full year.
Yeah, the games just *look* pre-NES.Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda
Dammit, 7800 doesn't count! It's post NES by like a full year.
Many 7800 games were developed in 1984, which is why so many of them look pre-NES. But if you look at games like Commando or Ninja Golf, these games look like they belong in the NES era.
Nothing can top the Vectrex!
All of those systems are worth owning but if I had to have one it would be Colecovision hands down. Don't forget about Smurfs( cheesy sounding but a fun as hell game) and the mighty Montezuma's Revenge. That is the game that is responsible for my undying love of videogames. I played and loved many before it, but none captured my imagination like Montezuma's Revenge.
Wasn't the C64 pre Nes? My knowledge on the dates of most eighties games is extremely poor. Anyways, it's a great system but quite as good as the NES.
The C64 came out in 1982 so yes it's pre-NES.
I stick a vote in for the C64 as well, it even had a life (outside the U.S.) into the Genny/Snes days.
If you go strictly console, I would say Colecovision, just for its arcade ports, and 2600 adapter.
I will never understand the desire to go back and play games that are that old.
Because many of the games are actually(gasp!) still fun to play.
Then you probably just don't understand arcade gaming in general. It's stripped down pure gaming, and a test of skill. Don't act like Time Crisis is really that much more involved than Centipede. Most arcade games still only have 2 or 3 buttons, it's still about straghtforward action. The formula was nailed down pretty early.Quote:
Originally posted by 88mph
I will never understand the desire to go back and play games that are that old.
Granted I'm not really gonna play *really* early stuff like Night Driver for reasons other than novelty, but once you get into the 80s, gaming had pretty much nailed the major genres with good quality.
I don't understand arcade gaming... :lol:
You ever seen my kitchen?
Owning books doesn't make you literate.Quote:
Originally posted by 88mph
I don't understand arcade gaming... :lol:
You ever seen my kitchen?
Reading them constantly does.
I would argue that early '80's games often hold up better than late '80's games because the NES/SMS-style of games were generally made much better in the 16-bit era.
88, please refrain from 0wning frogacuda. The 0wnage must end!
Anyway, I'm gonna say make an intellivision part of your retro gaming as Tron Deadly Disc and Night Stalker are tons of fun. Also, get an atari 5200 for the best ports of the early arcade stuff (which is also backwards compatible with some of the more popular models). Besides, it's the only game system I've seen that has a trunk...a must see.
I really can't pick one, I was so young when I played them initially that I really can't give a fair answer.
I love vector, so the Vectrex rules.
Collecovision was a solid performer and the 2600 adapter is a solid solution.
And Atari is legend.
But what I will offer up is an explanation for why a lot of people still swarm to these games. A lot of people say it's sheer nostalgia, that the games aren't as good as we seem to think they are. Personally I think a lot of it is the games. The fact that back then the designers had a freedom that designers today do not.
Think about the games, look back at the catalog and see what is available. Back then a designer could propose a game like "Okay, it's a simulation game where you have to run a garbage truck company. You need to set-up the routes, make sure all the garbage get's picked up and make as much money as you can. At the same time, though, there are aliens invading and you'll have to send out armed escorts with the trucks." and someone would say "Hey! That sounds fun, here's $5,000. Make it." and that was it.
The game could sell a a moderate amount of units and the company would make money. It never occured to anyone that they could make millions of dollars.
Today, the investments are huge. Therefore the investors are only willing to drop money into established themes and genres. It doesn't matter if someone has the best idea for a game ever, if it's not an Extreme Sports title that emulates the Tony Hawk formula, a RTS game or a FPS then many publishers want nothing to do with it.
Just look at some of the trash out there. Do you really think some professional game designers were sitting there and suddenlty thought "hey! Razor scooters are k2wl! we should make a shitty game around them that poorly tries to imitate the sucess of Tony Hawk!" Of course not. They probably presented a publisher with a good idea and had it shot down when the dudes with the cash said 'no, let's do something extreme. those extreme sports titles sell well. do something with those collapsable scooters my son likes'.
And that's that. A game can't be made without the financial backers, who today have no guts since they know a game could make millions of dollars. So they want to stay 'mainstream' and hope the stupid thier way into a million-dollar maker.
Back in the 80's a console game was done by one dude, and it was just trying to make it's money back and then some.
So alternative ideas weren't frowned upon so much because the risk was very little. Besides, who knew if there was a market for waste disposal/alien invasion sims?
But I rant, never the less, there is something very cool about a game that was written, designed, programed in an all ways created by one person.
That's just my personal feelings on why those games are appealing.
I'd also suggest:
Cosmic Ark for the 2600- Could be the first 'twitch' shooter? Asteroids coming in from all sides and your slamming the joystick around like a gerbil on crack holding a joystick.
M.U.L.E.- for many systems. Really, in the grand scheme of things this game should not only be in the video game hall of fame, it really should be inducted in the first class. Unfairly unrecognized and uncredited. I've heard that the C64 version is the best.
I was questioning your understanding. Bad analogy. Whatever.Quote:
Originally posted by 88mph
Reading them constantly does.
But like I said, I don't think arcade games have ever grown terribly complex to the point where they offer something different than the classics do. You play Robotron for frantic action and a test of skill the same way you play Raiden Fighters Jet for the same reason. I said what I did because I think these are the main reasons anyone plays arcade games on a regular basis (and thus "understands" them). That's what I meant. I'm not really trying to fight about your arcade fandom, obviously.
Gotcha. When I think Atari, Colecovision and Intelivision I think of the shitty shark game that I played back in the day, the horrible versions of Pac Man, fucking ET. I can't remember anything good... thats why I can't understand going back that far to play games.
Honest question: What has been done on Atari that hasn't been redone better on another more current system, or in the arcades?
Honestly, most of the good stuff were arcade ports, and for that reason I don't dust off the atari very often, but what you said was "I don't know why anyone would play a game this old" not "I don't know why anyone would play an inferior version of a game they could play elsewhere".Quote:
Originally posted by 88mph
Honest question: What has been done on Atari that hasn't been redone better on another more current system, or in the arcades?
That's why I chose the vectrex. It really did have an arcade feel to it, and it holds up pretty damned well in that regard, with some solid exclusives to boot.
I was refering to your "Time Pilot to Centipede" analogy.
I still see no point of playing "Cavity Commander" or whatever the fuck that tooth shooter game was called when I could be playing Batsugun instead.
I liked the 5200 despite the controllers. Arcade perfect port of Super Pac Man. =)
Games just had a different feel back then. Not everyone is going to like playing TRON Deadly Discs, Joust, Serpentine or Omega Race but those that do will go back to them. There are no modern games that really resemble these.
Judging the early '80's on 2600 Pac-Man and E.T. is like judging the 32-bit era on Acclaim's games. :)
I said Time Crisis, not Time Pilot. I picked it because it's a simplistic game.
Batsugun's like 10 years old itself. I could just as well say "Why the hell would I play Batsugun when I could play Border Down" but it doesn't work that way. Not every game has been perfectly cloned and revamped. No game has out-Robotroned Robotron. No game has out-Gyrussed Gyruss. Maybe these games don't dominate our playtime any more, but they still hold up well enough to be worth playing from time to time.
Marverous!Quote:
Originally posted by OmegaFlareX
I second the Atari 7800 vote. Food Fight really does rock, as does Impossible Mission, Joust, Galaga, and last but not least...
NINJA GOLF!!!
Plus, the entire VCS library opens up to you. Some of my personal favs:
Seaquest
Kaboom!
Centipede/Millipede
River Raid
Megamania
Cosmic Ark
Adventure
Hangman :D
However, you forgot Keystone Capers.:)
For Colecovision I also loved:
- Lady Bug
- Mouse Trap
- Venture
Damn I need a Coleco again...
other: Atari 5200
aka: PAM -PersonalArcadeMachine
-Ain't gonna do no better than that.
Kangaroo, Popeye, JungleHunt, Galaxians, MissleCommand, Joust, Space Invaders, and on and on. An 80's arcade right in your living room, boy-yee!
Except maybe Llamatron.Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda
No game has out-Robotroned Robotron.
Has anyone bought the Telegames DINA Colecovision? It sounds pretty good.
http://www.telegames.com/coleco.htm
Quote:
Originally posted by xS
Wasn't the C64 pre Nes? My knowledge on the dates of most eighties games is extremely poor. Anyways, it's a great system but quite as good as the NES.
I prefered the C-64's library over the NES's. Arcade port like Donkey Kong were better on the C-64. I found the NES version of Donkey Kong to be lacking.
Arcade ports of early '80's games were good on the C64 but late '80's games tended to be much better on the NES and SMS. Donkey Kong is awesome on C64 while Shinobi is not.
I am in 100% agreeance with you sir.Quote:
Originally posted by NeoZeedeater
The Colecovision is the best early '80's system if we're not counting computers.
Great Sega games:
Zaxxon (Great "3D" shooter) by Sega
Turbo (Racer with steering wheel and pedals!) by Sega
Donkey Kong
Tons of others. This system is the greatest.
I hadn't played the Vectrex in a while so I decided to try some emulation today. This machine holds up incredibly well. Mine Storm is still lots of fun and the effects in Web Wars are still impressive.
True...but most of the games of that age worth playing have found their way to more recent consoles.Quote:
Originally posted by Frogacuda
I said Time Crisis, not Time Pilot. I picked it because it's a simplistic game.
Batsugun's like 10 years old itself. I could just as well say "Why the hell would I play Batsugun when I could play Border Down" but it doesn't work that way. Not every game has been perfectly cloned and revamped. No game has out-Robotroned Robotron. No game has out-Gyrussed Gyruss. Maybe these games don't dominate our playtime any more, but they still hold up well enough to be worth playing from time to time.
I think most people have a hard time playing games earlier than the generation they began with. I have zero interest in Atari, yet I still play plenty of NES, while others I know who began with 16-bit can't stomach 8-bit.
I know I've asked this (and been answered) before but is Zaxxon available on any more recent consoles?Quote:
Originally posted by Master
Zaxxon (Great "3D" shooter) by Sega
Zaxxon hasn't been released on any modern consoles, not even on those Sega Memorial discs on Saturn.
Outside of emulation, there are many great games from classic arcade, computer and console gaming that have never been rereleased. Classic compilations cover only some of the more popular arcade ones.
It's unfortunate that many people won't touch a game that's "before their time". They same thing happens with music and movies but it's worse with video games. Some games suck without nostalgia but there are plenty that hold up without it.
Neither has Congo Bongo, which IIRC was the first isometric 3-d game..or was that crystal castles?Quote:
Originally posted by NeoZeedeater
Zaxxon hasn't been released on any modern consoles, not even on those Sega Memorial discs on Saturn.
.
But many more haven't. And aside from which, those that have, would still be considered "old" games. I'm not really debating about which version of the old games you play, but they're still old, and still fun.Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
True...but most of the games of that age worth playing have found their way to more recent consoles.
I can't comment on the "before their time" thing, since I cut my teeth on the Atari and classic arcade. I know there were games before that, but I don't know if there was a real distinct "generation" before that.
Zaxxon is slightly older than Congo Bongo and Crystal Castles.
I have Zaxxon on my IIGS.
It still sucks... :)
I brought my NES in 91,like 7 years after the C64 and a year or two after intially experiencing the SMS via the genny concvertor. It's almost impossible for me to see how any other system in that era could even come close. The NES has one of the largest libraries of quality games ever, I doubt that any system even comes close quantity wise( the psx is close though, despite the fact that 50% of it's libarary never made it stateside). Have you ever seen any of those NES fansites, like fennec fox's.... the list of quality games is in the hundreds.:sweat:Quote:
Originally posted by gamevet
I prefered the C-64's library over the NES's. Arcade port like Donkey Kong were better on the C-64. I found the NES version of Donkey Kong to be lacking.
Word. It's the first game I've ever hated.Quote:
Originally posted by 88mph
I have Zaxxon on my IIGS.
It still sucks... :)
Late, but on topic: I hear that the spectrum was very good.
The Spectrum had good games but it had virtually no presence in North America. Many of the best games on the Spectrum I would rather play on superior hardware from Atari and Commodore. Spectrum graphics were never great to look at.
And the vic20 was also pre nes right?
Yep, it came out in 1981, I believe. It had several good arcade ports.
Zaxxon Motherbase 2000 for the 32X, was the last Zaxxon game released.Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
I know I've asked this (and been answered) before but is Zaxxon available on any more recent consoles?
Quote:
Originally posted by xS
I brought my NES in 91,like 7 years after the C64 and a year or two after intially experiencing the SMS via the genny concvertor. It's almost impossible for me to see how any other system in that era could even come close. The NES has one of the largest libraries of quality games ever, I doubt that any system even comes close quantity wise( the psx is close though, despite the fact that 50% of it's libarary never made it stateside). Have you ever seen any of those NES fansites, like fennec fox's.... the list of quality games is in the hundreds.:sweat:
Word. It's the first game I've ever hated.
I'd say the C-64 has a larger library than both the NES and the PSX combined. Name a gaming company in existance today and it most likely got it's start with the C-64. Some of the most popular titles available on the NES, were also available on the C-64.
Popular NES titles like Maniac Mansion, Impossible Mission, Boulder Dash, Spy Vs. SPy, The Bard's Tale, Shadowgate and yes, even Gyruss could be found on the C-64. I even played a bootleg version of Punchout and Super Mario on the C-64.
If you liked the lineup of Atari 5200 arcade hits, you could find an exact replica of these titles on the C-64, as Atari themselves released these titles on the Commodore computer. I have well over 700 titles on the C-64 and can honestly say, that it has just about every idea you could think of in gaming covered.
Are you reffering to quantity of games in general, or the quanitity of A+ games?
*Bump* to continue debate with gv
You don't actually think the NES has more A+ titles than the Genesis or SNES, do you?
I've never been a huge fan of it(because I got it so late), but I guess it's market position and length of life did give it such a huge library.
The psx's library is enourmous and manages to dwarf it's competitors by a huge margin. As a matter of fact it has more 2d games than the saturn. I think this would be a good enough model for me to extrapolate how large the NES library was. And wasn't the NES's grip over the market much larger than Sony's in 32 bit era?
I might be wrong though=\ My memory is extremely fuzzy.
Btw, I prefer the SNES and Genesis over the NES, mainly because of the quality of their titles.
/me bumps
I don't think the NES' number of games is bigger than the SNES and Genesis but I haven't counted the games or anything. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of Playstation games is bigger than those three combined.
Nintendo's market share in the 8-bit was certainly the highest for any company in any console era. It was extremely unhealthy for the industry.
Quote:
Originally posted by NeoZeedeater
I don't think the NES' number of games is bigger than the SNES and Genesis but I haven't counted the games or anything. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of Playstation games is bigger than those three combined.
Nintendo's market share in the 8-bit was certainly the highest for any company in any console era. It was extremely unhealthy for the industry.
In 1992's EGM Buyers Guide, they state that the NES has a library of over 400 games. In EGM's 2001 Buyers guide, they state that the library of PSX games is over 800 titles. I think Nintendo's own publishing limitations on 3rd party developers, was more of a reason the library was not quite as large as that of the PSX's.
From what I've heard through various magazine artiles over the years, the PSX has sold over 100 million units worldwide, VS. the NES at 75 million.
Sorry if I've taken this subject too far off of it's normal course.
That EGM NES number only included domestic games. With import games and disk games, the number would probably double at least.
Quote:
Originally posted by xS
Are you reffering to quantity of games in general, or the quanitity of A+ games?
For it's time, I'd say the C-64 had just as many A+ quality titles as any console. I can say, that the PSX defineatly had more A+ titles than the NES, but I've yet to find a console, that provided as many unique and enjoyable gaming experiences as the C-64 has done for me in the 80's. Wipeout was a tame game, compared to Racing Destruction set. The grand daddy of fighters (Karate Champ) made an arcade perfect appearance on the C-64. RPG's were just as plentiful on the C-64 as were they on the PSX with titles like Ultima, The Bard's Tale, Phantasie, Wishbringer, Shadowgate and Zork. If you wanted great 80's arcade hits, just about every arcade game of the time was available, from 720 to Zaxxon 2 and even Xevios.
I probably played my C64 even more than my NES or SMS but I did get the C64 a few years earlier than the others. They seem to be from different eras though(C64 and NES/SMS), just with a lot of overlap. The C64 excelled mostly in games from 1987 and earlier where most of the best NES/SMS games were from 1987-the 16-bit era.
Instead of looking at the Atari 5200, which had the most god awful controllers ever known to man, you should look at the Atari bit computers (400/800/XL/XE) instead. The computers have pretty much the same hardware as the 5200, but with more memory and MANY more games, including exact copies of most of the 5200 titles (but you can use a real joystick!). Plus, you can literaly connect an Atari 8bit computer with your PC via a SIO2PC cable and use the PC as a virtual disk drive. Oh yeah, and I'm writing a game for the Atari 8bit computer, so that's yet another reason. :D
Coolest Transformers toy ever. And oh yeah welocome and shit.Quote:
Originally posted by Omega Supreme
Thanks, although I've been a lurker here for quite a while. :DQuote:
Originally posted by ShineAqua
Coolest Transformers toy ever. And oh yeah welocome and shit.
But the C64 did not have Megaman and Castelvania:P nyah nyah!
So how exactly was the market split. The NES and SMS were similar to the psx and n64, only with a wider gap right? And the C64 was competing in it's own market - the home computer market ?
That basically describes it except Nintendo was much more harmful than Sony with their policies. It's impossible to know the exact percentages but the console market was 85-90% NES with Sega taking up most of the remaining amount. Atari was competing with the 7800, XE and the very budget-priced 2600 Jr. but their presence was a joke by then.
The C64 was part of the computer market. The machine itself did extremely well but game makers had to contend with the most rampant piracy ever seen.
I think it's somewhat erroneous to think of consoles and computers as separate markets, especially back then when computers like the C64 were essentially game machines.
So which had more arcade ports? NES or the C64?
I disagree. Computers cater to a different price point, age group and type of user than consoles, then and now. Although the C-64 may have a similar (or at least comparable) library, that's only one part of the equation.Quote:
Originally posted by NeoZeedeater
I think it's somewhat erroneous to think of consoles and computers as separate markets, especially back then when computers like the C64 were essentially game machines.
I don't know how much a C-64 cost back in the day but I'm sure it was a lot more than $100-200. I had a IIc back in the day, and it was useful for a lot more than just games, but the Commodore may have been a different story.
Both had a shitload. The C64 had more. Everything you can think of was ported to it, even Ninja Spirit and Street Fighter 2.
Like I said earlier, the C64 was great for early '80's arcade ports but later on stuff was getting ported that it could not handle. Although, Power Drift was surprisingly decent.
Burgundy, that's why I said somewhat. The C64 was far more console-like than computers from IBM and Apple. The console crash of 1983-4 was partly a result of computers cutting into console territory. The markets were overlapped to a certain degree.
That may be true, but Nintendo in particular went out of its way to market the NES as a toy to distance it from the failures of Atari and the like and the computers that had usurped the console market. And there's still the price point issue - even if the Commodore CPU wasn't much more costly, there were still monitors and disk drives and peripherals to purchase. And the NES was a lot less daunting to consumers who by and large couldn't figure out how to program their VCRs.Quote:
Originally posted by NeoZeedeater
Burgundy, that's why I said somewhat. The C64 was far more console-like than computers from IBM and Apple. The console crash of 1983-4 was partly a result of computers cutting into console territory. The markets were overlapped to a certain degree.
I don't deny that consoles and computers are separate markets. I just think they definitely affected each other, especially before the NES arrived. Many parents in the '80's bought their kids/household a computer instead of buying a console from Atari or Coleco because they were perceived as more useful.
The C64 was more expensive than consoles but most people hooked it up to their TV instead of buying the expensive monitor.
My parents fall into that group, but I got a IIc instead. It was pretty useless in terms of games, but managed to keep my interest away from the NES until 1989, ironically.Quote:
Originally posted by NeoZeedeater
I don't deny that consoles and computers are separate markets. I just think they definitely affected each other, especially before the NES arrived. Many parents in the '80's bought their kids/household a computer instead of buying a console from Atari or Coleco because they were perceived as more useful.
The C64 was more expensive than consoles but most people hooked it up to their TV instead of buying the expensive monitor.
The IIc couldn't run a lot of software on a TV resolution (or couldn't run it well) but I guess the C-64 was a lot more amenable.
The NES caught my eye right away. It had a friggin' robot! R.O.B. pretty much sucked but man, that was an eye catcher and really set the machine apart from its predecessors.
Quote:
Originally posted by burgundy
That may be true, but Nintendo in particular went out of its way to market the NES as a toy to distance it from the failures of Atari and the like and the computers that had usurped the console market. And there's still the price point issue - even if the Commodore CPU wasn't much more costly, there were still monitors and disk drives and peripherals to purchase. And the NES was a lot less daunting to consumers who by and large couldn't figure out how to program their VCRs.
By 1985, you could buy a Disk Drive for $180 and the C-64 computer for $150. Loading games on the C-64 was as easy a load:Donkeykong,8,1
It was a lot nicer than the $1,000 Apple II and you were'nt force to buy a monitor to use a C-64. I had mine connected to a 19" color television in my bedroom.
I think the one thing that impressed me more about the C-64, over the NES, was it's outstanding soundchip, which I believe, was even superior to the peice of shit Z-80 soundchip that Sega decided to use in the Genesis.
It was
LOAD "*",8,1
:)
The sound in the C64 was amazing, it slaughtered even the earliest sounds blaster and AD lib cards.
It wasnt stereo, but some of the timing tricks they could pull off and get it to sound like 10-20 voices..
The C64 was home to some of the best video game music ever composed although people who didn't grow up with it might find it a little too low-tech now.
Barbarian and the Last Ninja games stand out for their awesome soundtracks.