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The Anniversary of Sept 11th is fast approaching and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts? Have we learned anything? Have your thoughts on the World changed any after 9/11?
I remember I was on the old GameGo boards when the first plane hit and there was a massive thread updating events as they happened.
Before certain people start saying that 9/11 was a GOOD thing for the rest of the world...
Those people who died were just ordinary folk living their lives-
Just because they were "evil" American dogs, they still did not deserve to die- not like that.
Also, 9/11 showed that religion can still be a dangerous thing in the wrong minds. I am an atheist, but I hope that 9/11 did not cause those who were once faithful to cease to be so.
doesn't really seem like there should be an aniversary for it...not yet anyway. the news an' media have been keepin' it around all year pretty much....it's like 9/11 never ended.
In spirit, 9/11 is forever...even if the world moves on with their lives.
Considering that every second since 9.11, you can't flip through CNN, CNN Headline, CNBC, FoxNews, or MSNBC without seeing something about it, I would have to say that I honestly couldn't give a damn about the anniversary, because I've been sick of hearing about it for about 10 months now.
I'm working on a mini toon to show how I feel about the situation, and expect to be shot when people see it.
It was a terribly tragic event when it happened, but why doesn't the general populace of the USA realise that stuff like this happens everywhere? We are not alone with terrorist activity and tragedy. It showed that our nation isn't invincible, which is good.
Geez. Hard to believe it's been a year already. My thoughts on the world have changed a great deal since that day. My eyes are opened to a little more of what goes on outside of my personal "vacuum", so to speak. Especially when it comes to US policies abroad and here at home. It has also taught me that the Daily Show is the only place to get unbiased/non-hype/non-scare tactic news coverage from. And, yes, I'm pretty damned serious about that.
Yes it happens everywhere but not usually on the same massive scale. Our nation has known it's not invincible for a long time. Did you forget the earlier bombing of the WTC in 93 or the Oklahoma City bombing or Ted Kazinsky or a host of other terrorist activites that have occurred in the US?Quote:
Originally posted by Tones
It was a terribly tragic event when it happened, but why doesn't the general populace of the USA realise that stuff like this happens everywhere? We are not alone with terrorist activity and tragedy. It showed that our nation isn't invincible, which is good.
Year shmear. I was over it 5 minutes after it happened. You can only laugh so long... :evil:
Time flies.
2D: I remember the Oklahoma City Bombing (I was in 1st grade) but not the other WTC bomb attempt.
I can still remember posting on GameGO! through out the course of the day...
It has also taught me that the Daily Show is the only place to get unbiased/non-hype/non-scare tactic news coverage from. And, yes, I'm pretty damned serious about that.
I love the Daily Show.
My uncle Ron (who was a paraplegic most of his life) died that day, but not from being in NY or Washington. He drunk alot, and I'm pretty sure he knew how much he could drink to kill himself. I'm also sure that seeing what was going on drove him to do it. September 11 was a horrible day.
I also remember posting about it at GG!. I was trying to call my uncle in NYC to see if he and his family was alright but I couldn't get through. I had no one else to talk to at the time so I was just on the boards posting what I heard on the news.
Tones: I forgot you're a young whippersnapper.:)
Later all...
I remember talking to some of my friends who had parents in the Pentagon, quite scary just to hear the panic in their voices.
I wasnt quite there but I saw the entire deal from my dorm room. It was pretty fucking scary and Im still affected by it. Just awful... I think CNN and the rest of them are talking about it too much (to the point where they talk about it so much that it more or less numbs people to just how horrific it all was) but I think forgetting that it even happened or "getting over it" is the wrong way to go.
EThugg, are you trying to be a badass or something? Because you just sound like a total dipshit. Even moreso than usual.
Yea, I agree diffusion, but I'm going to try my best to ignore his immaturity just this once just to so others can see his post and form their own opinions about him without me stepping in..
wow... a year. I remember that morning, telling my mom 'that some plane crashed into some building or something' and her being like 'what? I'll check the news later.' after about a month of seeing those images non-stop I just stopped watching tv altogether for about 6 months. You couldnt watch any channel with out some 9/11 stuff... not even cartoon network! I read a lot. I hate how they've commercialized it. But whatever welcome to america.
Me? A total dipshit? Badass wannabe? Maybe... *shrugs*
I wasn't lying though... I laughed while watching tower 2 come down, a few instant replays, then turned the TV off and continued on with what I was doing (I believe I was sleeping).... in otherwords, get over yourself. I have better things to do than try to get a rise out of some kid on the internet.
Whatever. Im not the one whose flamebaiting/trolling here. Just stating the fact as I see it. But you know what... ah, whatever.Quote:
Originally posted by EThugg
I have better things to do than try to get a rise out of some kid on the internet.
So, just how did you find the situation humorous?Quote:
Originally posted by EThugg
Year shmear. I was over it 5 minutes after it happened. You can only laugh so long... :evil:
"People" who hate all humans usually enjoy seeing mass murder and somehow find it humorous..
Yea, "people"... lol...
6000+ people who didn't deserve to die is worth five minutes of laughter??
What the hell kind of morality is that?
strike two...
Thugg morality.
I thought the media circus during the aftermath was hilarious, but I always find that amusing...
I'm dreading the anniversary tomorrow, as everyone is going to be in a funk for no real reason. Some people have a legitimate reason to feel upset, being that family died. Everyone else needs to seriously get over themselves and stop being so self-righteous.
I know the above comments will be taken the wrong way, so I'm not even going to fight back if any of you disagree. I'm only stating something, and not flaming.
At best this is going to degenerate into another excuse for Americans to have a hot dog cookout, a la the Fourth of July. Not this year, mind you, but eventually.
Unfortunately, the events of 9/11 will do more to feed our burgeoning reactionary isolationism than to spur deep thoughts on the nature of good and evil. I think the rest of the world got a hell of a lot more meaning out of those terrorists acts than we did.
I bet there will be a lot of cars with American flags draped across the hood and flying out the windows tomorrow.
Hooray for jingoism!
Nah. Nobody celebrates April 12th (Fort Sumter) or December 7th (Pearl Harbor). July 4th is a happy occasion, not a somber one. Although I will say that July 4th has become one of the things I dislike most about this country. How people turned the anniversary of our founding fathers defiantly casting off their old world rulers into a beer/BBQ/illegal fireworks celebration is beyond me. But I just dont see people turning 9/11 into some sort of celebratory deal.Quote:
Originally posted by Nick
At best this is going to degenerate into another excuse for Americans to have a hot dog cookout, a la the Fourth of July. Not this year, mind you, but eventually.
I remember looking at the aftermath with my friends, watching the smoke rise into the air all day and all night (not on TV, I must emphasize). We were all just standing around and we couldn't believe it happened. It was like a dream, something in a movie. It was impossible to fathom.
Yea, I realize that terrorism happens a lot in all parts of the globe, and I feel for those who have to suffer from it. Even moreso now. I cant stand to hear about another suicide bomber in Israel because I know what it must feel like for those who witness it (so maybe it made me more sensitive to that stuff?). But looking at the WTC towers first-hand was just too unreal. It didnt sink in until that night.
There's not much I can do to change anything, you know. Waving around a flag and putting it in the back window of my car isn't gonna do much good for anybody, so Im not gonna do that.
I do think this is a great country and worth fighting for, though, so maybe one day I will. I want to do something more than just "getting back to my regular life". And I will... so I guess thats how 9/11 affected me.
1-It was a 3rd of that.Quote:
Originally posted by Seven Force
6000+ people who didn't deserve to die is worth five minutes of laughter??
What the hell kind of morality is that?
2-They were Human
3-They were Amerikkkan.
Would you prefer I laughed longer? Or pretended like I gave a fuck and was sympathetic?
Of course this is a great country worth fighting for. The changes in attitude I have witnessed since that mass murder have pretty much all been negative, though. There is way too much pro wrestling mentality around here. As if going in and extinguishing small groups of people will truly help.
How long before we start parading military equipment in the streets, like the Red Square displays in Moscow, so that a bunch of drunken fatasses can cheer and whoop and convince themselves that the world is sharply Good and Evil, with them squarely in the corner of Good? Oh, yeah - we do have those air shows that people die at every so often.
And June 6th.Quote:
Originally posted by diffusionx
Nah. Nobody celebrates April 12th (Fort Sumter) or December 7th (Pearl Harbor).
Yea Nick, I see your point. This wasn't really an isolated incident but more like Gavrilo Princip's assasination of the Archduke Ferdinand (which sparked World War I). There's a lot of reasons for why these people did what they did - that's not justifying their actions because I just can't do that (just like I can't justify Palestinian suicide bombers, no matter what reasons they spout for their actions). If you ask me it takes a very evil person to do something that kills 3,000 innocent people but they had their reasons and they unfortunately did it.
But most will not realize this. They will see the US as totally in the right and ready to "kick their ass"... but I guess they are just simplifying things so their feeble minds can handle it.
I plan on not turning on any television tommorow - for the simple fact that I've seen way too many documentaries on the whole subject on PBS already this past week. I'll be at work tommorow occupied with other things on my mind - not that Sept 11th bothers me anymore personally.
The day it happened I remember feeling numb the whole day. I was watching ABC before the attacks happened in the morning and then the shows were interuppted with the new briefs and I saw the towers hit and collasped on live tv - which was surreal. Then I quickly got ready and went over to Tracer's house and woke him up and told him what happened - then I remember we went to go get his brother from his high school because all the schools were evacuating - we dropped him off at home and then split to go to a record store to buy some records and then went to a restuarant and ate fairly good pizza- and then went home. But it was a strange day and I don't particularly remember us enjoying ourselves - like I said it was pretty unreal and numbing.
But the media coverage in its aftermath did a good job of desensitizing me to a point where tommorow for me is just another day of going to work - for what its worth I hope tommorow passes relatively safley - but I won't place a flag on my car or anything like that - I just won't say anything about it - too many ppl will be talking about it anyway.
I'd recommend anyone to watch Dateline NBC. It started 50 mins ago, 40 to go, and it's basically just a telivised version of everything that the US knew and ignored.
I don't want to see it all over again. I almost lost it the first time. Not again.
All I want to know is if you knew one person who died in that building that was KKK-mentality racist. Or did you just spell it like that for fun?Quote:
Originally posted by EThugg
3-They were Amerikkkan.
For someone who prides himself in knowing the facts, you sure toss around generalizations.
All Amerikkkans are racist, except some childeren... young childeren....Quote:
Originally posted by Hero
All I want to know is if you knew one person who died in that building that was KKK-mentality racist. Or did you just spell it like that for fun?
For someone who prides himself in knowing the facts, you sure toss around generalizations.
And your not? You seem to be racist against all forms of races.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
If I were gay, I'd say I was gay. Admiting your a virgin in this day of age is likely to get you mocked more, but I admit that....
And yes, I am racist, I am an Amerikkkan. I can admit that as well. You, however, like 99% of Amerikkkans, are in denile.
I can't believe a year has gone by already. I remember the day pretty vividly. I walked into the lunchroom at about 11:00, over 2 hours without hearing anything about the incident, and saw all this commotion. I didn't know what was going on until my friend explained to me that the WTC and Pentagon were completely gone, and it didn't really register for awhile. We left school and had nothing to do, so we went into the park, which has a pretty good view of the city, and smoked a few bowls, discusing the situation at hand. We heard all the planes going by, and standing in the park looking over the water at the city where all the destruction had taken place, with my mind as it is after those THC receptors have been filled, it all seemed so surreal. I listened to the latest updates on my friend's walkman as we walked back, then got some pizza as we discussed the best ways to kill Osama Bin Laden, something we still haven't done, which is pretty sad to admit. That is a day I will never forget.
Just a quick question for those who don't live in NYC. Did you feel detached at all from the situation, since it didn't affect you as much so as it did people in the area? I only know what it was like as a New Yorker, I don't know how this would affect someone from California or something.
I'm in NY state, not city. I hated NYC b4 911, and after. They are a leech on the rest of NY. I wish the whole city had crumbled.
I just want to point out how weird it is to imagine EThugg's posts comming out of Bubbles mouth.
"I am the Muffin King!"
Great episode, btw.
Hey, Gongos.
No, I was not attacking Christianity or America's choice of allies. I most certainly was not advocating turning the other cheek to terrorists. No way, no how.
On the contrary, I am sharply critical of the current administration's isolationist, we're-above-reproach attitude toward most of the rest of the world, and I am troubled by the Star-Wars, baseball-home-team idiocy that passes for civil foreign policy discussion among so many members of our population.
Besides our inception in the 18th Century, no other point in history has demanded this much care in international relations. Since his very first weeks in office, President Bush has rarely demonstrated anything that ventures far beyond a cowboy mentality. I fully respect the sovereignity of our state, but I recognize that cavalierly kicking over trash cans, either directly or through our allies, does little more than create a lot of garbage to wade through.
The terrorist attacks gave the administration another villain and a tangible goal on which to focus. I worry about all the hotspots in the world, and I would rather not see our Defense Department play the enemy-of-the-year game. Hence the reference to professional wrestling.
The impetus for the "fatass" comment should be obvious. We used to be known for our great statesman and generals, now we are known for our round bottoms and our fascination with handguns and Uzis.
Foreign policy is more than swatting flies.
Quote:
Originally posted by MrKasualUltra2000 [size=3]
i usually post dumb comments and the typical stupid shit posted on vg message boards, but this is a serious subject so im going to treat it like one....
9/11 was a fucked up event, no doubt about it, but it has left me somewhat emtionally sterile, our generation was programmed for this event...Die Hard, bruce Willis, Delta Force, Ikari Warriors, GI Joe, etc,etc....and the powers that be are finally taking advantage of this programming.
Things arent changing around these parts, whered all the American flags go??? All thats left is a shitty economy and angry neighbors. As a country we are fading, quick, when Jennifer Lopez™ and Brad Pitt™ are what folks have in common, things are not as they should be.
It is almost if our country is a giant corporation trying to make money off their latest production....its sickening if you take a minute to realize who is benefitting the most out of this catrastrophe....Larry Eliison, GW, Cheney, etc...a fucking blazing rating war between Cable News Networks, the outcome determined by who has the flashiest REMEMBER 9/11 GRAPHICS & the most moving music playing subtely in the background....get the picture yet?
However, I thank the Lord my family or friends were not directly effected by this tragedy..and i feel for every victim and the families effected b the event, as hard as it is watching the world unfold from behind a glass tube.
I found this article on the Net, and it pretty much sums up my feelings and probably lots of yours as well...
enjoy.
~MKU2ooo™
bewildered rice bandit at large®
----------------------------------------------------
911 - The Day The
Earth Stood Still
By John Chuckman
9-9-2
I wanted to avoid this topic just as I want to avoid everything concerned with what has become known as \"9/11\" ...America\'s penchant for nicknames and short-forms holding even in its nightmares. But we do not always get to do the things we want, and ignoring this is something like ignoring a monstrous iceberg that\'s drifted into the harbor.
On that date this year, a dense, almost impenetrable fog will descend over the entire United States. All thinking will stop. Television networks will proudly sport logos designed just for the day, and they will broadcast spots from advertisers pretending not to be selling anything. Hours of toe-crinkling, stomach-churning sentiment will be broadcast from politicians with the morals of gangsters.
There will be a moment of silence in the casino lounges of Las Vegas and Atlantic City. Thousands, with casual-wear pantsuits bulging over the tops of barstools, will pause to reflect on the meaning of 9/11 between frenzied rounds of feeding slot machines. Elvis impersonators and chorus girls will bow their heads. The $8-an-hour student in the big fuzzy mouse-suit at Disney World will stop a minute from shilling for expensive rides and eats.
Fundamentalist television-preachers will pause from the work of building media empires to pose in leather arm chairs and shake blubbery jowls, squeezing out a few more stage-tears for dear old America, confident that the moment\'s diversion won\'t hurt the flow of money from lonely, loopy folks living through television sets.
Footage of smoking, crumbling towers will be replayed a thousand times on television stations with nothing else to attract advertisers. And it will be watched, especially where the option on the dial is one of those politicians reciting his pathetic lines for the twentieth time in a day. The replay button on a million video machines will be hit with trembling anticipation like that felt replaying a favorite horror flick. A billion terrible drug store photos, snapped on trips to New York, will be taken down from closet shelves to be thumbed and smudged over once again by friends and family.
Recently a Canadian friend I had not seen for a while recounted her experience of flying into New York right at the time of the attack. I tell part of her story because it offers perspective on that day\'s events and what has been learned from them.
Through the back window of her cab, she actually saw the second plane strike the World Trade Center. In the logjam of traffic in which she was trapped, crowds of people got out of their cars to gawk, large numbers of them furiously snapping pictures.
Of course, such behavior, had there been a more far-reaching crisis, would have been exactly the opposite of what was called for. People were holding up the flow of traffic away from the city to catch photo-album memories.
_
A second riveting scene was her going to a bar in the evening for a drink in the airport-area hotel where she would be trapped, surrounded by soldiers, for days (this only after her cab returned to the airport following hours of effort at getting into Manhattan). The television broadcast pictures of American warships off the coast with commentary about how they were equipped with cruise missiles. The men in the bar cheered loudly, just as they would at a football game, fists and forearms pumping like the response to a touchdown. My friend could only put her head down and despair over the notion that she was caught in the middle of a war.
The scene is interesting for several reasons. The football game reaction to the warships was a replay of the mindless, gut reaction to the military witnessed so many times in my lifetime. It is precisely the reaction that permits a government, often serving special interests and questionable ideology, to become mired in the affairs of others, often to an extent at odds with the interests of most individual Americans.
It was obvious that the attack was the work of people who destroyed themselves as well as their victims. The applicability of warships, with cruise missiles no less, missiles whose only purpose is to destroy targets on the ground or sea hundreds of miles away, to this situation could not have meaning beyond a reassuring show of strength. And yet people cheered. At the time, there was no certainty about what group might be responsible for the destruction.
Many of them still cheer over what has been accomplished in Afghanistan, that is, the killing of thousands of innocent people, the scattering of the genuine terrorists to the four winds, the toppling of a stable but unpleasant government, and putting in its place an unstable but equally unpleasant government.
_
The displaced government blew up ancient statues and abused women. Members of the new government murder prisoners, suffocating them by the hundreds and dumping their bodies into mass graves on the desert. They also devote time to shooting and blowing up one another. They still abuse women. In the last year, despite the photo-op casting off of the burqa, nine women have immolated themselves in protest over ghastly arranged marriages - a far greater number than occurred under the Taliban.
I was reminded of audience reaction to the Sylvester Stallone Vietnam movie, First Blood. This was a fantasy that re-assured American mass audiences they might have avoided the despair, frustration, and disgrace of Vietnam had there only been people like the star making decisions. This star, a kind of living, plastic action hero figure, possessed the cunning to defeat every trap and the vision to avoid all confusing complexities - every trap and complexity, that is, except those of going into Vietnam in the first place.
American foreign policy, and particularly the quixotic interventions it has entailed, over the last sixty years has been based on wishes and fantasy rather than facts, on how Americans - at least the financially and politically influential portion of them - would like to see the world rather than how the world is.
To an extent that would surprise many people who regard America as advanced and pragmatic, this is, in fact, a society where fantasy plays a huge role. There are the fantasies of adults who behave like children. There are the paranoid fantasies of Christian fundamentalists who speak in tongues, heal cancer with a thump on the forehead, and find signs of devil worship in corporate symbols or children\'s books. There are many strange cults like those of Jim Jones, the Branch Davidians, the Aryan churches, or the recent oddity of sanctifying gibberish from a second-rate science-fiction writer. Always there is the escapism of Las Vegas, Disney World, and Hollywood, and the powerful fantasies of advertising that keep the economic engine at full throttle.
_
In many ways, this attachment to fantasy plays a role in foreign affairs, in the way America sees the world and how she understands her place.
_
In the Middle East, a place under great stresses including rapid modernization contemporary with the continued existence of ancient tribal cultures, something has been occurring much like the gradual build-up of pressure from the slow, almost imperceptible movement of tectonic plates. Under these stressful conditions, America\'s myopic views and careless policies themselves provide additional sources of stress. The accurate, dreadful message delivered on September 11 is that this way of treating events has become dangerous to Americans whereas before it was dangerous only to those who were the victims of American policy.
And it is that message that America has ignored for the last year. All American efforts and tens of billions of dollars have been directed at two main objects. One is the distortion of traditional arrangements and freedoms at home plus many relationships abroad to help shape a Fortress America. The other is to intensify the very same policies, attempting to destroy people and places abroad viewed as especially unfriendly to the effort.
I don\'t believe that any number of attacks and invasions can alter such a fundamental and growing problem. There are simply too many people adversely affected by American policy. You cannot use force to make vast numbers of people submit, unless you are prepared to impose indefinitely the kind of terror Stalin or Hitler imposed on society. And you cannot maintain a fortress society in a globalized world.
John Chuckman[/size=3]
I remember that day so vividly. I was tossing and turning in bed just hours before the attacks went down. I simply couldn't get to sleep and I didn't know why, because I WAS tired and sleepy. That turned out to be a very foreboding event...
After I opened up our family business and let my mother sleep in, my relief came in the form of my uncle at around 9 in the morning. I stuck around and waited for my mom to show up, she was shopping at Tuesday Morning. Suddenly, about 9:30 or so, she came in with a panicked look on her face. She told me to turn on the TV...and we saw the two towers in flames. We were...speechless.
Within a few minutes, the first tower collapsed. Immediately, our thoughts turned to my brother who lived on Manhattan, and though the chances of him being anywhere near the Twin Towers at that time in the morning on that day were pretty much non-existent, nonetheless we beyond worried. My mom and I were almost in tears when the second tower collapsed...
Soon afterward, my brother called. He said he'd been standing on the roof of his friend's apartment building, and watched the second tower go down with his own eyes. He just called to tell us that and let us know he was ok, we didn't hear from him again for almost two days because all the phone lines to New York were clogged up.
I went home and tried to sleep after that, watched the news some more, needless to say it took me awhile to conk out, and it was a restless and fitful sleep.
That night, the mood at my college campus was grim as could be, a good deal of people were absent from my science class. Understandably so. No one much felt like being there. That night I stayed up and watched the news most of the night, and cried. Thats about all I could do...
Hhm. I would have to say I agree with the man who wrote that letter. Yesterday I wrote a journal entry about sept 11. I rarely do that anymore. I found my self saying that it did not bother me that what happened, happened. But as I got farther into writing about the topic, I found that at one time, I did care. It did sadden me that so many had died. It saddened me even more to think of those who had time to contemplate what was about to happen to them that day, the terror they must have felt.
I asked myself then ?why do I not care? or more exactly, ?how did I forget I cared? For the most part, I believe it is because of the way this nation as a entirety reacted to it. When I was sad the US had not yet found the enemy and had not yet reacted to it. People really felt bad and had not reacted really to it either. Then over time, instead of looking at this from multiple angles, the US looked at it from one very basic primal angel. ?Ug, we are attacked, me destroy, never happen again.? Now I will admit that some sort of negative reinforcement was necessary, but I can not agree with it being the ONLY thing to do. ALL it seems that we did, was seek revenge. The US has done nothing NEW to improve relationships with ALL nations. It has done nothing NEW to spread democracy and freedom across the world so all people can enjoy life. If its really like the news says and this was out of jealousy, then why are we not trying to raise up people or teach them how to raise themselves up so there is no distance between us to be jealous of? Of course the average American probably doesn?t know that current foreign policy makes the entire US look like a bunch of aristocratic assholes. How else would you look at someone who pays you 25 cents to make a sockerball, when the same company would pay a US worker 5.50 a hour to make socker balls? Am I the only one that realizes how that must look? It makes the rest of the world think that americans think we are worth more than nonameircan people. This is only one example to, a lot of what we do comes off like that, and is one sided and biased in favor of Americans. A bunch of people died on 911 because of the way our government makes other country?s people think we are all asshole, making it alright to kill us unbiased. The Gov has done nothing, to my knowledge, to change this.
Now, on to how the people have effected me. The news tries to make it sound like 911 will be remembered forever, but honestly its like the people can?t wait to forget. When pearl harbor was attacked the PEOPLE responded, our people have done nothing more than turn the colors red white and blue into a new fashion statement. Most people come off as if they are simply sucking up to the US government in some pathetic hope of being protected. ?Look I?m wearing your teams colors, protect me, don?t let me die.? Other than reacting in fear, or simply for self preservation I have seen the American people do NOTHING. All they want is for the US military to go off and destroy the ?enemy? so they can go back to their humdrum little lives. They don?t want to worry about WHY it happened, they don?t want to worry about if they might of had something do with it. They will label you unpatriotic if you try to tell them that it is the US?s fault, that our policies and selfish ways promoted it. You will be judge as a USA heretic over policies that the very ones who accuse you have very little knowledge of. You might even be considered the enemy if you try to keep this nation free and argue against the government?s new ideas they want to try in the name of ?national safety?. Over all, it?s like before 911 the people were asleep. Then some weird bump in the night came, and instead of finding out what it was, they got their cute little uncle sam bear down from their dresser, hugged up tight to it and went back to sleep, while the bump is still out there.
Ultimately it?s not the stupidity of the current times that makes me feel the worst. It?s the realization of what is to come because of it. If all parties refuse to proceed with both action AND intelligence, the past will repeat itself. It always does when people forget. The people of the world no longer really think a lot about Hiroshima, Pearl Harbor, or the Holocaust. Some people can go years and years and not even think about any of them in a serious way (key word, serious). People no longer really think about any of the big wars that America has ben in or why we fought them. They have forgotten how horrible they are, and thus they will be repeated. If mankind can not remember 911 and the other things I?ve mentioned when acting in regards to the future and the rest of the world the next thing that happens will be worse. It?s the idea of this going on longer and repeating itself, is what truly makes me sad.
P.S. anyone know a word program that doesn\'t put those stupid ? in there. I\'m tired of going back and fixing that
Ethugg: if someone blew up a building in Rochester you would care right?:bang:
IronPlant:
I understand your sentiments but nothing is going to get to the type of people who flew planes into the World Trade Center. Countries who want democracy already have it. What can be done to spread democracy, like you suggest?
The type of people like Osama bin Laden will always hate America. I really think the US is operating on probably the best thing it can: by uprooting terrorists and countries that they operate in. I mean, is there any doubt that the Taliban was aiding al-Qaeda?
So what's the point in playing nice-nice to them? To send aides to set up schools? To give them money to set up irrigation? To do all this? What would happen is that US resentment would continue... it happened in South America.
Or Iraq... I mean is there any doubt that they are building nuclear/chemical/biological warfare? Do you think changing face and acting nice to Saddam Hussein and whomever else would change their resentment? Would just say "forget it!" and go home?
It's not gonna happen.
US policy should change in the future, but for now we have our enemies and they will be our enemies and continue to terrorize us for the forseeable future. So, to protect the US' interest we must fight them. This includes the Taliban, al-Qaeda, Iraq, and probably a lot more countries in that region.
It sucks... but being nice can really only go so far and do so much. I do hope the USA changes the way it deals with Arab nations in the future but also keep in mind that the USA practically rebuilt Europe and Japan after World War II and good chunks of Europe still hates the USA. Sometimes, you just need to act on force. You need to dismantle these governments who want to harm your country. Now is one of those times.
Its a shitty situation, to be sure, but hey, thats the situation we're in now. But it's not like an American flew a plane into Mecca or sent scores suicide bombers into Kabul.
edit: Here's a beautifully written piece on the subject; it's on a pretty big blog or something that I stumbled on. Anyway it nicely sums up my thoughts.
Did you really have to ask??Quote:
Originally posted by xS
Ethugg: if someone blew up a building in Rochester you would care right?:bang:
I didn't find out the details of the day's events until after 11am. I was at college in my first class, and the teacher came in and said "I'm sure you've all heard about the planes by now. Let's just wait and see what unfolds, and concentrate on class." I had no idea what was going on. My second class of the day was the same, but I ended up asking what was going on. It didn't really hit me until I went to the library after that class and sat on msnbc.com until I couldn't take it any more.
I had to spend the rest of the day at school, until after 9pm (night class). I went home and just, well, lost it. That was the worst day ever.
Right now, I simply want to grab my girlfriend and go home and lay in bed next to her, and hold her all day long.
- Kabuki
Exactly why hasn't Ethugg been banned?
One year or 50 years, this is one of those things that I will never forget and I don't think America will ether.
This was a sad day for me as it was for alot of people, luckly no one I knew died but for some people they weren't as lucky and even though I don't know them I feel for them to have died in such a senseless act of violence :(
I remember that day vividly. I was in my creative writing class when we found out the Pentagon was attacked (I'm in the DC area by the way) and a few of my classmates asked to call their parents to see if they were ok. We had no idea the World Trade Center towers were attacked, and we were all nutty just from this info. That day, we all just talked amongst ourselves. Everyone broke into a political discussion, and we all wrote about our thoughts, then shared them. In my next class, we turned on the radio and heard that the World Trade Center had been attacked as well. All of us were silent. We all heard that two planes had hit the towers... None of us could even speak. We all just stood there with blank faces. I remember seeing my girlfriend the next day and asking her if everything was alright, since her stepdad worked in DC, just like my mother did. Turns out that everything was fine for her, and me, but one of our friends wasn't so lucky. He lost three friends in the attacks. We all just kinda walked around for a bit talked about our feelings on the attacks. We did this for what seemed like an eternity, it turned out to have only been 20 mins.
We've all been wondering that at one time or another. But let's not worry about some attention-needing person today, there are much better things to think about.
I was on the GameGO! board when I found out.
If it were my house, yea... otherwise, no.Quote:
Originally posted by xS
Ethugg: if someone blew up a building in Rochester you would care right?:bang:
Because the fine staff here aren\'t Nazi\'s... like you apparently are....Quote:
Originally posted by Golgo13
Exactly why hasn\'t Ethugg been banned?
Oh... really?Quote:
Originally posted by EThugg
All Amerikkkans are racist, except some childeren... young childeren....
You don't know me too well...
Ironplant, basically what you came off as saying to me was : I don't think it was wrong that the people in WTC died because the minimum wage in the US is 5.50 by law.
Re: Iraq, I definatly thing we should invade them..as long as there is more than enough evidence to support the fact that they are planning anything against us. Why not get them before they get us rather than letting them hit us first. Is there any logic to the latter? Either way, we will be hated by other countries for attacking Iraq, so there\'s no avoiding that.
About everyone who is devoid of compassion for human life because of the country in which they live.. WTF? You want us to die because we live in a country where we don\'t make rules, but rather corrupt political leaders?
I wish people like you understood what the Nazis were actually about: This hah-hah, reason-over-humanity coldness you're exhibiting is about as close to Nazism as most people can get on a daily basis. Kicking you off a board because you're a jackass that makes the place less interesting for other people doesn't have anything to do with Nazism.Quote:
Originally posted by EThugg
Because the fine staff here aren't Nazi's... like you apparently are....
It's not like it really matters, anyways - considering your post count, this message board is probably the centerpiece of your stupid, worthless life, which means you're probably too lazy to do anything with your nazi-like philosophy. You're irrelevant.
:lol: (post count +1)
Oh, about Sept. 11 - I spent a lot of time in the library and with my girlfriend in the days following the event, just reading. Went to a museum. I think I'll probably end up doing the same tonight.
Thinking about Flight 93 (the people that overtook the plane from the hijackers) still just flattens me, emotionally. Even during our country's (and our species') worst days, things like this happen that redeem us almost immediately. Ah, I can't even think of it now, it, I dunno, I think memories of the stories about the event will always probably be a source of confidence and hope to me.
I can't think of many other instances where man's capacity for humanity has been drawn so boldly and so brilliantly in contrast to its surroundings.
That is not what I said at all. My basic point was that the shitty way our government and people have reacted to what has happened has made me numb to the situation. It was something horrible and our Gov is not doing all that it can do prevent this from happening again, and the American people by majority seem to be trying do something cute and fluffy like put little flags on their car and have flag bath towels instead of doing anything meaningful. The comment about the 5.50 was a example of things our government does that makes the world think that all Americans are self righteous aristocrats that think they are the only ones worth anything in the world. How can you justify going to another nation and treating people worse than you treat your own people just to make a buck? How is that person suppose to look at that?Quote:
Originally posted by Rich
Ironplant, basically what you came off as saying to me was : I don't think it was wrong that the people in WTC died because the minimum wage in the US is 5.50 by law.
Re: Iraq, I defiantly thing we should invade them..as long as there is more than enough evidence to support the fact that they are planning anything against us. Why not get them before they get us rather than letting them hit us first. Is there any logic to the latter? Either way, we will be hated by other countries for attacking Iraq, so there\'s no avoiding that.
About everyone who is devoid of compassion for human life because of the country in which they live.. WTF? You want us to die because we live in a country where we don\'t make rules, but rather corrupt political leaders?
Also someone commented that they thought I was saying our government should not have reacted violently. What I said was that we as a nation should not just being reacting forcefully but politically. Aggression only keeps this sort of crap going, using good politics with aggression brings this sort of stuff to a end. A good a example would be the way we dealt with the end of WW, and then the way we dealt with WW2. Everyone wanted revenge on those who started it and in just a little while they had another war. After WW2 we helped those we defeated and we haven't had another military conflict with those nations.
We should change these policies that make the american people seem like people worth killing, because in truth they are not. If we don't look like a monster to be destroyed, then there will be less people who want to do so. These people all over the world only have how our government acts to show them what America is like. Its not that unnatural for them to assume that we are all like the few bad examples they do see.
And talking about Iraq, I really don't care if they go to war with them. The US should be going around trying to eliminate dictators and try to uplift people. I do wish Bush would quit blowing smoke up our asses and trying to connect it to terrorism. Just be honest, "we are going to kill him because he is bad and mean" that's all I want.
Well i was stuck in class and they did not tell us shit until the end of the day.(BTW i go to the same skool as jay did). Called my dad he could not even make it to work.
And the reason Ethugg is still here, i dunno, most of the time he is funny.
Thank you... *bows*
(+2)
Hmm, I'm actually surprised about the way the news programs have been with their coverage of the day's events. I've been watching NBC for a few hours now, and I've yet to see the towers fall once, which is something I'm glad about.
And another note, how can you say the govt. isn't doing the best it can to it's abilities to prevent this from happening again? They certainly are, whether or not they'r doing it right is certainly up for debate, but they definatly are. And putting an american flag in their car is meant for nothing but just to prove that they remember and do have sympathy towards the victims. At least that's how I interpret it.
Yeah Ethugg is the funniest poster around . Thats why he's here.
Well, I checked out the 9/11 exhibit today at the Smithsonian museum. Absolutely shocking stuff. They had beams from the WTC, doors fire engines, press passes and a camera from a victim, and other such things. There was also a newsreel room with clips of news coverage of the attacks.
The NY State Lottery Pick 3 was 9-1-1 today..
Holy shit...talk about coincidence...Quote:
Originally posted by Rich
The NY State Lottery Pick 3 was 9-1-1 today..
I guess Gongos likes me all of a sudden.
Before I get to him, I want to say that I am generally a person who tries to control his emotions, but thinking about those people in those airplanes on September 11th has gotten me all choked up. The world can be such a horrific place because it is such a beautiful place.
There are moments when I hold back shouts of joy and there are others where I swallow bitter tears. One of my primary goals is to bring as much beauty into the world as I can. I am not claiming that I am being very effective at that, but, my God, I wish I could plug people in to some of the joy I feel. Joy that comes from knowing what we are capable of and what we are worth.
Anyway, on to other things.
If anyone besides Gongos saw any "underhanded shot[s] at Islam" in anything I have written (besides my general attacks on religion), please point them out to me in writing. Thanks.
The United States is the only superpower left in the world. As such, it can throw its weight around pretty handily in the United Nations and elsewhere. Look at it the manner in which it is pressing forward on its ill-advised plans for a nuclear defense system. Domestically, the terrorist attacks of last September have given it a twisted justification in its attempts to chip away at the rights of privacy and freedom from unlawful detainment.
I hope that the legacy of 9/11 does not include a compromise of our rights where they do not legitimately concern public safety.
I have been less than impressed with the Administration's actions on the world stage, and I think we are alienating the rest of the world by pretending we exist above it in every way. We should mete out justice to terrorists; though that has nothing to do with what I was saying in my previous post.
As for the ludicrous assetion that I resort to name-calling in lieu of an issue-oriented debate: piffle. If that is the impression you have of me in all the time you have known me, you probably haven't read very many of my posts.
I admit I was venting steam, but I am always deliberate in my choice of words. My impression as an inhabitant of a major American city leaves me distraught about how our children are being raised. The priorities are all screwed.
One of our two major daily newspapers give full-color front page treatment to some of the most morally bankrupt trash in society. Convienence and instant gratification take precedence over common sense and civility 90% of the time. Call that attitude elitist if you wish, but it is my honest impression, and it troubles me.
I worry that the President in twenty-five years will make George W. seem like Confucius.
We all need to vent steam at some point or another, otherwise, we'd go nuts.
I hate to be a me too kind of person, and I hate to say this again (I have said it at least 2 or 3 times before) but I would like to thank Nick in saying what I wanted to say.
ºTracer
For the first time, I'm gonna post without reading the entire thread, so if I mised something, I'll edit it later. It's too late, and I'm too tired to read it all.
9/11 was very surreal for me. I still can't believe that it was real, it felt so much like I experienced watching an action movie or something of the such. I still wake up sometimes hoping that it was all just a bad dream.
I was a senior at Wagner College, Staten Island, NY. I got up at like 7 a.m. as I was real stuffy and couldn't breathe. So I decide to go online and fool around till my classes started at 11:20. after the first plane hit, I heard the radio from my neighbors. It was too muffled to make anything out, yet I heard them say "Can you believe what just hapened?!?!?" So I go to CNN.com, since I was already on my computer. Couldn't get through. Tried MSNBC, no go, then Fox News, no go. I just shrugged it off and said I'll find out later.
Around and hour later my roommate is almost ready to go to his drawing class, and his girlfriend calls him, telling him to turn on the tv, NOW! He does, and we were in total and complete shock.
For those who don't know, Staten Island is just right across the water from Manhatten, so my dorm is on a big hill on Staten Island, and we can see most of Manhattan and some of Brooklyn and New Jersey from our dorm rooms. We go out to the lounge and see the smoke. It was an unreal moment. For the first time in my then 21 years of life, I was witness to a historic event, in the same vein as "Where were you the day JFK was assassinated?" I left my dorm room as I didn't feel too safe in a high rise building. As I walked outside and started to talk to a friend, I heard and FELT a rumbling, little did I know, one of the towers had fallen (I don't remember which). The school was immediately closed, and people were allowed to go home, but only the next day, I believe. Commuters were told to stay on campus for the night as well. The rest of the week's classes were cancelled too.
I remember the panic, the confusion, the worry for loved ones, and the absolute mayhem of that day still so vividly. People trying to call loved ones and not being able to get through. Seeing planes fly right above us, thinking we were the next victims. There is nothing more humbling than fear for one's life. Our school lost over 40 people. (alums, friends and family of staff and students, etc.) I've been to every ceremony of remembrance on campus, and I start to feel that same familiar feeling of "This didn't happen" every time. I Thank God I didn't know anyone personally involved in this attack, but I feel like I was. That's how close I was to the scene.
I can understand people feeling like "We should all move on with our lives." and that whole thing. And I agree overall. But we should NEVER forget. (I think it's impossible for people who were actually close to the event to forget entirely. This event will forever be emblazoned in my mind every year at this time, and I don't think that is wrong.) I'm not even talking about getting revenge in any way. I don't care about the terrorists who committed this devilish act. Forget about our shady government dealings and scare tactics of the media for now. I'm strictly talking about the victims.
We lost a lot of people. Not all of them were valiant people with uncheckered pasts. But even one event, one display of good (I should say good of such calibur as this) can redeem the character of a person. Whether they knew they would die or not, people risked their lives, and many lost them, to protect others. They didn't care about color, creed, class, religion, sex, sexual orientation, or anything that separated us from one another. Only about the preservation of life. Even in such a horrific event, people can show such a brilliant display of what a human being should be all about. If there is anything we all should take away from "That Day", this is it. It's a damn shame that it took taking the lives of so many people to prove that the human race can actually reach their potential, even if it's just for a short amount of time.
I was invited to sing again with my college choir at a ceremony yesterday at the Staten Island Yankees stadium (SI Yankees is a minor league team, for those who couldn't figure it out). And while some of the things were somewhat tacky, the spirit, and the message was still there and rang through. The message of hope, and UNITY.
I hope you all coped with the events in your own way, whether by remembrance or isolation from the entire day. But just remember this: no matter what you personally feel about this event, Someone lost their mother/father/sister/brother/husband/wife/child/grandparent/cousin/friend. As long as you remember this, then say what you want.
DiffusionX, where did/do you go to school?
I watch some of those shows yesterday. One hosted by Robert Denero (probably spelt wrong) and two on the history channle. It really reminded me of how I used to feel about this and how I should feel. I shouldn't let how shitty other people react to this effect me like it has.