Ikaruga [DC, GC, XBLA, PC]

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Originally posted by BenT
Sports games are mainstream, and RPGs have become mainstream. But shooters have left the mainstream. Hence why they're treated differently on mainstream-tilted sites.

And I don't agree that games like Tony Hawk and Ikaruga are worth any gamer's time. I don't care much for the former, myself, and while the latter may be good, it's also one of the most difficult, painstakingly precise games in recent memory. It's hardly a good choice to introduce newbies to the shooting genre. I wager it'd make most of them run away screaming. ;)

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That's funny, your site gave it a 96 ;)http://www.gamespy.com/reviews/october02/thps4ps2/

I just disagree: a game is a game, and it shouldn't be treated differently because someone decides the "mainstream" isn't interested. Reviews should consider the game, not the gamer.

I don't see why these reviewers (not just Gamespy, but you happen to be talking to me :)) feel they need to decide what their readers want. Biases shouldn't be taken into account, or if they are, they should be the biases of the reviewer, and he or she should be blunt about it.

I also don't see why an RPG review is written assuming a person is willing and ready to spend the 40 hours to beat the game, but when Ikaruga is reviewed, the fact that literally anyone can beat it in under 10* hours is ignored. Plus, by the time they've spent those 10 hours, they'll probably have gained an appreciation for the game, and want to devote even more time to either unlock the galleries or better their play.

If the reviewer was of the opinion after those 10+ hours that his or her time had been wasted, then bash the game and tell people not to waste their time with it. But if the opposite is true, don't change the score because of an assumption Joe Gamer won't want to spend those same 10 hours. Tell him that he'll be dying and replaying the same sequences throughout - don't lie to him - but don't lower the score. If Joe Gamer knows he doesn't like dying and replaying, then he'll lower the score himself, just like you lowered the 96 because you're not a fan of Tony Hawk.


*Are infinite continues unlocked after 10 hours? That's what I remember it being but I'm not sure. If not, just replace that number with the number of hours it does take.

Also, Ben, just so you know, I'm a big fan of GameSpy. After so many internet sites crashed, I'm pretty much grateful for anything, but GS happens to be one of the best :). So thanks to you and your fellow workers for keeping it going.

i dunno. i didn't write the review of ikaruga and i really don't have much interest in the game -- what i played of the DC version didn't set my world on fire, to say the least.

but i find it really funny you guys just assume that ara doesn't know dick about shooters when he happens to be super hardcore into them. why do you think he'd be the one who got assigned the review?

i'm finding myself really start to backlash against the shmup scene. i hate this autocannibalizing insularity. i always feel this way about "scenes" whether it's punk music or a game genre, so it's nothing new for me.

i hate the fact that games in the genre are designed to cater to the tastes of only the niche, which is totally stagnating the genre and making it less and less accessible -- isn't the whole concept of SHOOTING THINGS one of the most accessible *ever* in its natural state?

but, no, games like DDP daioujou and ikaruga get ever more obscured by insane difficulty and obscure mechanics to the point that devotees are the only ones who can understand -- let alone appreciate -- them.

everything about ikaruga screams overrated to me; most of its cred with game journalists is misplaced retroactive cred for both treasure and radiant silvergun, i think, rather than actual love for -- or understanding of, or even INTEREST IN -- ikaruga itself.

i know that when i approach an RPG review -- and being that it's my favorite genre, and i could get super hardcore -- i approach from the angle that the reader is interested in the game, maybe even interested in the genre, but isn't the kind of person who is going to try and get all 800 endings for star ocean second story or anything like that. that serves me well; there's a balance one has to strike between writing for the devotee of the genre and someone who just is interested in whether or not a game is cool or interesting. for most people who click on that ikruga link they know there's some buzz about the game but they aren't well informed.

using the term "mainstream gamer" pejoratively is just tacky, and overusing it, too. gamespy is a site mainly aimed at enthusiasts but not the hardest of hardcore like this forum. playing that game isn't any fun, either. no matter how hardcore i might think i am, no matter how many PC engine games i happen to own -- somebody on this forum is going to look at me as a sell-out dilettante wanker because i don't tow one specific line or another, or don't particularly like treasure (which i don't) or whatever. why even try? EGM gets derided all the time, when some of the editors there are hardcore as all get out -- shane's collection makes my huge piles of games look paltry, for example.

so, whatever. i dunno where i'm going with this, and i already had a little bit of a yelling match with ben over this topic and again when i said i was going to post in this thread because he's worried i'll make gamespy look bad by alienating forum users here. that's not my aim, but i think people take this hardcore sceneism way too far. that's all. the review of ikaruga is an informed and intelligent one and it tells anyone but the hardest of hardcore -- who already know what they think -- what they need to know about the game. that's it.

I don't know where this is going, but that was really fun to read. :)

If a game is so difficult that one feels it hinders the experience, it should affect the score. Just as if a game was too easy. Would Virtual Fighter 4 be so great if the CPU stood in one place and jumped the whole time? No. If 97% of the battles you got into in FFX had you dying....would it lessen the experience? YES! Does the fact that Ikaruga is so fucking frustrating I wanted to throw my Dreamcast against the wall hinder it? YES!

Let's look at a great example (IMO). Beyond the Beyond for PSX. It had some spiffy puzzles and the battle graphics were swanky....but you got in a fight every .00000000000001mm that you walked the map. That's how I feel when I play Ikaruga. It's THAT annoying. It hinders it.

Hardcore shooters may think the difficulty is amazing. Great. Then get the game and hush.

It's the same with any genre. If a sports game is ridiculously difficult and requires pin-point accuracy, it affects how people view it. I'm willing to be a good 90-95% of people would bet turned off by extreme diffculty in their fav genre.

obscure mechanics??
ikaruga has some of the simplest gameplay mechanics i've ever seen in a modern game..

and of course it's difficult.. if it were any easier, it would be proportionately less rewarding when you beat it.. and you wouldn't be spending as much time with the game... you'd beat it in a weekend and be done with it.. why create a game for that?

treasure knew what they were doing when they made ikaruga.. it isn't perfect, but it sure as hell doesn't need to cater to any group to be what it is... it's just a solid, challenging shooter that can be picked up by anyone with decent reflexes...

picked up the GC version today, BTW.. looks and sounds like ass on my TV, but thankfully i'm getting an HDTV in soon, and i already got the component cables..

I have never been more frustrated with the GameCube controller than I have been today. Why can't Nintendo make a good dpad?

And why did Atari feel necessary to put that inane ign quote on the cover?

im not gonna comment on the review thing as personally i agreed with alot of the things in the review that was posted and i would give the game an 8/10

which is bassicaly the same as 79.79 or what ever it was out of 100

and for all the shooter fans out there if you dont buy this game dont bitch when shooters dont come here

just wanted to say that again

The Official TNL Ikaruga FAQ has been updated. Information pertaining to the new US GameCube release has been added.

Those of you who have the GC rev may want to look it over and suggest anything that needs to be added or changed. I think I got all the major stuff.

A quick public service announcement: If you were planning on getting this game for GC, you better act fast. Initial shipments have been very limited, ranging from 1 to 5 copies per store, depending on the amount of pre-orders. My EB games only had 1 copy come in because no one bothered to pre-order it. All three Gamestop chains in my area received only enough copies to fulfill pre-orders. Luckily I was able to secure that one copy tonight, but you may not be as lucky.

And for those who were wondering, that lame IGN quote is still plastered right on top of the cover....:mad:

Is there a way to play this full screen without changing the vertical(I can't turn my big screen on it's side)? Thats my biggest complaint. The images are too small.