Gameplay and Design Origins Discussion Thread

[Frogacuda]

Etoile Princess is pretty good, too. And of course the Castlevania game.

[gamevet]

There are level editors that predate it(Lode Runner, maybe Galactic Gladiators) but I can't think of any for driving/racing games.

Racing Destruction Set (C-64) had a track editor and you could save your tracks on a seperate disk, to share with friends.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_Destruction_Set

[gamevet]

I was pondering the puzzle platformer thing earlier for a wiki entry I was writing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_games). I came to the same conclusion as you that Penguin Land is the earliest clear cut case of a puzzle platformer.

I don't know about that. Have you played Miner 2049er? It was released between 1982-1983 on various platforms, including the C-64 and Colecovision.

http://www.classicgaming.com/miner2049er/

[Frogacuda]

I don't know about that. Have you played Miner 2049er? It was released between 1982-1983 on variouse platforms, including the C-64 and Colecovision.

http://www.classicgaming.com/miner2049er/

Miner 2049er was basically a Donkey Kong clone. How do you figure it was any more of a puzzle game than anything else before it?

[sleeve]

Miner 2049er was basically a Donkey Kong clone. How do you figure it was any more of a puzzle game than anything else before it?

No one who actually played Miner 2049er would ever call it a "Donkey Kong clone."

Both had ladders and platforms, but that's where the similarities end.

Unlike DK, where the goal is to simply reach the top, Miner 2049er requires you to traverse every surface of the level. To do this you have to trigger elevators, use teleporters, manipulate cherry pickers, fire Bounty Bob out of cannons, and use other strange devices.

Miner 2049er is a far better game than DK, incidentally.

[kingpong]

Simultaneous Co-operative/Competitive Play -


What I mean by this is games where you can choose to work with the other person to beat the levels or beat on them. The earliest that comes to mind is the Mario Bros. arcade game from 1983 since you could smack the floor below to knock the other guy into enemies. Datasoft's computer game Bruce Lee(1984) is the oldest I can think of where you can directly assault the other player.

A few earlier examples:
Wizard of Wor (1980) - 1000 points for killing your fellow Worrior
Joust (1982) - Team Waves gave you bonus points if you don't kill each other, Gladiator Waves gave you bonus points if you did kill each other

[gamevet]

Miner 2049er was basically a Donkey Kong clone. How do you figure it was any more of a puzzle game than anything else before it?

In it's day, it provided the player with 10 challenging levels containing an assortment of obstacles and puzzles rather than a single repeating level as so many games of that era featured. It won several awards and was the most widely licensed game created.

[sleeve]

Don't forget the unbelieveably awesome sequel, Bounty Bob Strikes Back, which had 25 levels.

The original programmer, Bill Hogue, has written a free, Windows-compatible, self-contained emulator that runs Bounty Bob Strikes Back here. Check it out, if you haven't already.

[Frogacuda]

No one who actually played Miner 2049er would ever call it a "Donkey Kong clone."

Both had ladders and platforms, but that's where the similarities end.

Unlike DK, where the goal is to simply reach the top, Miner 2049er requires you to traverse every surface of the level. To do this you have to trigger elevators, use teleporters, manipulate cherry pickers, fire Bounty Bob out of cannons, and use other strange devices.

Miner 2049er is a far better game than DK, incidentally.

I know how it's played. It's Donkey Kong meets Q*Bert. I'm not seeing the puzzle aspect.

[NeoZeedeater]

Racing Destruction Set (C-64) had a track editor

It came to mind but it's from 1985 while Excitebike is from 1984. It's still cool though.

A few earlier examples:
Wizard of Wor (1980) - 1000 points for killing your fellow Worrior
Joust (1982) - Team Waves gave you bonus points if you don't kill each other, Gladiator Waves gave you bonus points if you did kill each other

Ah, of course. I figured I would have missed some big ones. Thanks.

I'm not seeing the puzzle side to Miner 2049'er either. Also, the arguable puzzle/platformer I mentioned earlier(The Castles of Dr. Creep) might be a different first: having a tutorial level. This question was asked at the insertcredit forums a few weeks ago and it was the earliest tutorial level I could think of. Like everything else, it wouldn't surprise me if there's an earlier one though.