The problem with dominating the planet

[Cheebs]

Ever wish we weren't the smartest, biggest, baddest, planet-rule'nest species around? I mean, we kick ass and all, but there's nothing around to study us and verify our level of ass kicking.

We look at ants and say "look, they built tunnels and a little separate mating chamber. That's very clever of them. Good job, ants."

I want something to look at us and say "Look, they built New York. That's very clever of them. And they got thier lines much straigher than the ants, and all of their surfaces have a much better finish, too. Good job humans."

Wouldn't it be cool if there were two scientists from this non-existant super species going over their findings in a lab somewhere saying stuff like "The Great Apes learned sign language. They're pretty smart! Oh wait, the humans learned to communicate instantaneously with each other in much greater detail clear across the planet. They're pretty smart too! Probably smarter than the apes......"

[Nash]

this is very hegelian.

anyone know hegel's master-slave dialectic? if so, i'd love to talk about it, on topic of the thread of course.

[Freeter]

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
Ever wish we weren't the smartest, biggest, baddest, planet-rule'nest species around? I mean, we kick ass and all, but there's nothing around to study us and verify our level of ass kicking.

We look at ants and say "look, they built tunnels and a little separate mating chamber. That's very clever of them. Good job, ants."

I want something to look at us and say "Look, they built New York. That's very clever of them. And they got thier lines much straigher than the ants, and all of their surfaces have a much better finish, too. Good job humans."

Wouldn't it be cool if there were two scientists from this non-existant super species going over their findings in a lab somewhere saying stuff like "The Great Apes learned sign language. They're pretty smart! Oh wait, the humans learned to communicate instantaneously with each other in much greater detail clear across the planet. They're pretty smart too! Probably smarter than the apes......"

"They" are already watching us. Why else do you think we haven't migrated to other planets yet? We're the guinea pigs, and the Earth is our cage....

[Cheebs]

Originally posted by Nash
this is very hegelian.

anyone know hegel's master-slave dialectic? if so, i'd love to talk about it, on topic of the thread of course.

......?



My cat's breath smells like catfood.

[Nick]

I love this board! The first thing I thought of as I was reading Nappa's post was, "Hegel!" Then I finish the post and scroll down - voila!

Let's make this a Hegel thread. Phenomenology of Spirit is in my book Pile of Shame, and I might not get to it for years. What was that - we secretly yearn to destroy others, but fear that if we did, there would be no one to lord it over to?

[Nash]

Originally posted by Nick
I love this board! The first thing I thought of as I was reading Nappa's post was, "Hegel!" Then I finish the post and scroll down - voila!

Let's make this a Hegel thread. Phenomenology of Spirit is in my book Pile of Shame, and I might not get to it for years. What was that - we secretly yearn to destroy others, but fear that if we did, there would be no one to lord it over to?

ah cool. here's the basic premise of hegel:

every human seeks recognition, and is willing to risk their life for recognition. two humans (has to be two, cuz there can be no recognition with one, thus in hegelian terms, two is the smallest number) seeking recognition clash in order to be recognized by the other.

out of this conflict arises a master and a slave. the master is the one who was willing to risk his life, and the slave is the one who wasn't willing and gave up. the master gets recognition from the slave, and the slave becomes dependent on the master. the master is not satisfied because his recognition is from a slave and not another master. the slave has the ability to become the master (hence the term dialectic). the ultimate goal is to have mutual recognition.

in relations to this thread, we are the master so far. we've dominated the earth. to use the ants like chibi did, the ants (and other animals) are the slaves. we want recognition, and recognition from animals is not good enough. we want other intelligent life to recognize us. there's more to it, so if anyone is interested, i'm down for it, but i'll stop here for now.

[Cheebs]

Interesting stuff. I gotta read that. Wouldn't the ants be the masters because we are the ones recognizing them saying "Wow, look their tunnles and mating chambers"?

[Freeter]

Originally posted by Nash


ah cool. here's the basic premise of hegel:

every human seeks recognition, and is willing to risk their life for recognition. two humans (has to be two, cuz there can be no recognition with one, thus in hegelian terms, two is the smallest number) seeking recognition clash in order to be recognized by the other.

out of this conflict arises a master and a slave. the master is the one who was willing to risk his life, and the slave is the one who wasn't willing and gave up. the master gets recognition from the slave, and the slave becomes dependent on the master. the master is not satisfied because his recognition is from a slave and not another master. the slave has the ability to become the master (hence the term dialectic). the ultimate goal is to have mutual recognition.

in relations to this thread, we are the master so far. we've dominated the earth. to use the ants like chibi did, the ants (and other animals) are the slaves. we want recognition, and recognition from animals is not good enough. we want other intelligent life to recognize us. there's more to it, so if anyone is interested, i'm down for it, but i'll stop here for now.

In other words, we're attention whores

[Nash]

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
Interesting stuff. I gotta read that. Wouldn't the ants be the masters because we are the ones recognizing them saying "Wow, look their tunnles and mating chambers"?

there's always back and forth recognition, but it's not mutual. in this case, we do recognize the ants, but we recognize them for what they are: ants. while they may be able to build tunnels and chambers, they are still not equal to us.

to go further with the master/slave dialectic, since everyone seeks recognition, it is in most cases that slaves are content with being slaves because they are getting some sort of recognition. they become dependent on this; even though it's lower recognition, it's still recognition. however, some slaves realize that they can become masters and start freeing themselves through themselves. this is a bit more complicated, so i'll stop on that here.

hegel's master-slave dialect is in almost everything --- teacher/student relations, family, friends, god/us, etc. take a friendship for example. most of the time, there is a master and a slave in a friendship. one person will almost always has a more dominant personality than the other. however, some friendships are equally mutual, and this is what we ultimately want. in the case that you've presented chibi, we want that mutual friendship (recognition). we don't want to be friends with ants.

ps - the movie "the matrix" is very hegelian. i think you guys can see how.

[The Ampersand]

Far out. I'll have to check that out one day. Sounds very interesting.