Going to the 3/15 Anti-War Protests?

[Adrian]

Good luck to all of you attending these protests I don't know about America but here the protestors are mainly young but we also have many families turning up. We're peaceful protestors, not skinhead rioters.

"Most of them aren't violent (either too weak or too scared to be unless they have about 20 of their buddies behind them)"

No, just stoned and simply no violent nature.

[YellerDog]

Originally posted by CynicalSphere
What I wonder is, where were these people when Kosovo and Afghanistan were going on? Too busy trying to save the whales? :P

Lacking the old sociatal awareness much?

You seem to have a pretty good misconception of, oh, everything. And a bland one too.

[CynicalSphere]

Originally posted by YellerDog
Lacking the old sociatal awareness much?

You seem to have a pretty good misconception of, oh, everything. And a bland one too.

Looks like the pot calling the kettle black here. The difference is that I don't follow you over multiple threads throwing Mickey Mouse insults with no backup. :P

[YellerDog]

Cynical:
You're imagining things. Just because you got bitched in another thread doesn't mean you're being followed.

The reason there weren't really any protests to Kosovo and Afganastan is that they were viewed as justified actions.

Afganastan DID have it's protesters, though; see the Not In Our Name orginization, for instance. However, (most of) the world viewed it as a just action on our part, 9-11 and all that.

Our stance on Iraq is viewed as aggressive and hostile, hence, protests. Sure, that's simplified, but it's basically what the outrage is about.

[ChaoofNee]

Protest a war I think is semi-justified? Naw.
I'll be too busy eating a steak in protest of something that's REALLY unjustified.

[RedCoKid]

Originally posted by YellerDog
My experience with the protestors is that they're confused, but good-natured.

I could just as easily label you confused.

Originally posted by CynicalSphere
but if you say that you're not opposed to the war (as in neutral, not necessarily for it) they automatically label you a monster. Not my idea of people that I want to be associated with.

You're projecting your experience with a couple protesters onto the entire group. That's not right.

What I wonder is, where were these people when Kosovo and Afghanistan were going on? Too busy trying to save the whales? :P

The war in Afghanistan was to flush out the Taliban gov't that was harboring Al Qaeda terrorists responsible for the 9/11 attacks. There is not definitive proof of Al Qaeda in Iraq.

I don't think these protests are going to do a bit of good anyway.

...because the Bush administration refuses to listen to 1/2 of its citizens or the majority of other countries on our planet.

We're already so far in this that either some miracle will happen and Iraq will get scared into surrendering, or the war will happen. We're in a no-win situation in terms of international PR; we'll look bad if we attack and we'll look bad if we don't.

Inevitability is not a good reason to become submissive. The failed international PR is the fault of the Bush admin not first exploring the receptivity of other countries to the invasion idea before beating the war drums last summer.

As far as my attitude in general, I don't think any good can come of any of this, but there ain't shit I can do about it either way, so I'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Perhaps that's what many German citizens thought of their own government back in 1939? I'm kidding. But seriously, preemptive war rarely ever will be justified in the international community. We should concentrate on defense at home and retaliation rather than preemption. Doing so will help US credibility in the future when we act as a mediator for peace. (You already can see proof of lost US credibility when Russia, China, Japan, and S Korea fail to help us when dealing with N Korea.) Moreover, will other countries lend us their sympathy when terrorists retaliate against us when this war starts?

[YellerDog]

Originally posted by Rose4256
I could just as easily label you confused.

This is true.

EDIT: However... quite a few protesters, no matter where you go, are there because they're a little wacked about what they're protesting. Go to one and look around! Not to say that most aren't there because they're against war, but still, there's a good chunk that will just as soon push their anti-government, anti-whatever adgenda at the same time. Which is pretty counterproductive.

[CynicalSphere]

Originally posted by YellerDog
Cynical:
You're imagining things. Just because you got bitched in another thread doesn't mean you're being followed.

Heh, my bad. As for the other thread I was blowing off steam because I've been stressed to the max lately. I tend to act like this during such times.

The reason there weren't really any protests to Kosovo and Afganastan is that they were viewed as justified actions.

Afganastan DID have it's protesters, though; see the Not In Our Name orginization, for instance. However, (most of) the world viewed it as a just action on our part, 9-11 and all that.

Our stance on Iraq is viewed as aggressive and hostile, hence, protests. Sure, that's simplified, but it's basically what the outrage is about.

Well, personally I think war is never morally justified (though sometimes a necessary evil). I just fail to see the total difference between this and either of the above bombings. They're all technically acts of aggression.

What really bothers me about THIS particular war is because we're attacking a country that hasn't actually threatened us prior. It's a scary precedent to attack another country because of what they might or might not have. I have no doubt that Saddam probably does have weapons stashed out in Duney World somewhere. Of course, the UN aren't going to give in unless we practically dig up every sand dune out there and show it to them (not that the UN does much that's really useful anyway as it's more of a board for griping than anything else).

I don't know. I guess I'm very pessimistic because I don't really see much good that's going into all this, or good that will come out of it. All I see are nations and people acting in their own interests. I know it's stupid to think that a country is going to act otherwise (no matter what some hyper-idealistic anti-American shitheads will say, no country in history has ever acted out of total philanthropy), but it would be nice to think that at least somebody out there is acting for the good of all.

But nevertheless, there's shitheads on both sides of this debate, and violent people on both sides. That's why I'm just sitting here chuckling at both sides, despite the fact that I dread what might be coming. Even if the US isn't attacked, the loss of innocent life is going to be fucking OBSCENE...

Originally posted by Rose4256
You're projecting your experience with a couple protesters onto the entire group. That's not right.

I never said it was the right thing to do. But, I don't see it as any different when some other people act like all war protesters are heroic righteous people. ANd just for the record, it was a LOT more than "a couple." I'd say "the majority of those I have dealt with personally" which is quite a few.

The war in Afghanistan was to flush out the Taliban gov't that was harboring Al Qaeda terrorists responsible for the 9/11 attacks. There is not definitive proof of Al Qaeda in Iraq.

But Afghanistan wasn't protested even though several people called the evidence into question.

...because the Bush administration refuses to listen to 1/2 of its citizens or the majority of other countries on our planet.

I'm not particularly interested in venting on politicians.

Inevitability is not a good reason to become submissive. The failed international PR is the fault of the Bush admin not first exploring the receptivity of other countries to the invasion idea before beating the war drums last summer.

When did I say that I was submissive? I have protested this war in my own way. It may not involve harassing other people on message boards or IRL, disrupting functions, slinging invective, or parading around with signs. There's only so much one opposed to war can do in an area where virtually EVERYONE supports it.

Perhaps that's what many German citizens thought of their own government back in 1939? I'm kidding. But seriously, preemptive war rarely ever will be justified in the international community. We should concentrate on defense at home and retaliation rather than preemption. Doing so will help US credibility in the future when we act as a mediator for peace. (You already can see proof of lost US credibility when Russia, China, Japan, and S Korea fail to help us when dealing with N Korea.) Moreover, will other countries lend us their sympathy when terrorists retaliate against us when this war starts?

For once, I agree wholeheartedly, save for that crack about Germany. :P I think we should close the gauntlet and choke the power out of Iraq, but I don't think war is the answer. War only breeds more war, if history has taught us anything.