Disobey.

[Jimmy Carter]

Originally posted by diffusionx
There's a difference between loving the country and loving the government. I dont know about you, but I have taken a driving trip across the entire country. Ive seen one end to another. It's astonishingly beautiful.

Did you see Minnesota, my good man? Probably not. But someday, you must. If ever a reason to live existed, it would be Minnesota in the summer. June, in particular.

I've taken a couple of road trips through the States. Minnesota-Iowa-Nebraska-Wyoming-Utah-Nevada-California for E3 2002. That was an excellent trip. And previously from Florida to Minnesota (had flown down there to pick up a car for my grandpa). A fabulous place. I plan on road tripping to Maine later this year.

While I ultimately want everyone to be happy on the Earth, I dont understand whats the problem with loving the country you live in and that has given you opportunities and hope for the future. If I lived in Iraq or Afghanistan I would not have hope... I have hope here to become whatever I want, and I consider myself lucky for the opportunity to be born here.

I love America to death. This place rocks and I'd want to live nowhere else. However, I plan on visiting some places later on in life (New Zealand, Israel, Italy, Germany, Honk Kong and Tokyo).

For anyone who needs a refresher course as to why America is such a cool place to live, read Whats So Great About America by Dinesh D'Souza. While he is a conservative and I understand that some would get angry reading his work, he's an immigrant from India and has a lot of good to say.

[NightWolve]

Originally posted by sggg
In your version of "America" anyone who disagrees with the actions and policies of their government is "anti-American" eh?

Wow... just wow...

I guess anyone who opposed Hitler was anti-German too?

How witty... Are you done arguing with yourself?? Wow, just wow.. Please refrain from claiming to know what my "version" of America is.

Anyway, I invite anyone to take a look around sggg's website of choice (of course, as does he); click around for awhile and read a few articles... then decide for yourself if that site does, in part, fall under the definition of being anti-American... So yeah, feel free to disagree with sggg's view of disagreeing on what's anti-American.

What a joke... "Yeah man.. don't be confused, it's just disagreeing (and a bit of demonizing, a bit of calling for total American regime change, a bit of calling for total social/communist revolution - no big deal, just minor 'disagreements' on your entire American society, that's all...)." riiight... Okie dokie...

[youandwhosearmy]

Unfortunately, the problem with these left wing arguments is that they originate from the left wing.

[maruchan]

Originally posted by NightWolve
Oh man... check the rest of that site out... so disturbing. Sorry, but if that site wasn't so blatantly anti-American, if this article wasn't so blantantly filled with propoganda and relying on the art of demagoging, I might've been willing to listen... Unfortunately, that's far.. far from the case... Aside from dealing with the pros & cons of this potential and/or upcoming war, it's too bad that groups and persons can use it to further their ulterior motives. Luckily, this is article is extremist enough, so it's not that hard to detect .. Thanks anyway sggg, but I'll decide who or what my enemy is for myself...

OF course someone brainwashed from the HQ of FOx News/CNN/MSNBC shows your cup of tea... would say that.. Where they Decdide for you, .. I Znet is a good site.. away from the blantly unrealibe mainstream news organization..

EDIT: Wish MRK2k3 was still here.. he was a great intalectual, you can say he was stones rival, in these debates.. just look at the history..

[Master]

Do you type out a speech impediment or something?

[Almaci]

Frostwolf you twat, get my name straight dammit.
You do it on purpose dont you?

[Opaque]

Originally posted by youandwhosearmy
Unfortunately, the problem with these left wing arguments is that they originate from the left wing.

yup...

[sggg]

Originally posted by diffusionx
There's a difference between loving the country and loving the government. I dont know about you, but I have taken a driving trip across the entire country. Ive seen one end to another. It's astonishingly beautiful. I think its hard to resist having a deep appreciation for America when you've seen it like I have.

I honestly respect and appreciate that. That's what I was referring to when I was talking about celebrating and appreciating your culture in fact.

I also appreciate and love many things about and in the US. I have been to so many great places and I love so many people I have met...


The only thing I have a problem with is when people use those kinds of feelings to support a government that has nothing to do with them. Not everyone does that. But some people do! No matter what kind of political party is running the US, the land will be no more or less beautiful. The character of the people does not change either. German culture was great before during and after Nazism.

I hope you don't think I was accusing you of anything Diff, because that was not my intent. I think your words and conculsions are pretty respectable and you come off as open minded to me. That's unlike some other posters, unfortunately, and even though I replied directly to you post that's what I was referring to.

Your argument here, sggg, takes on a sort of "if not pro-life, then what are you, pro-death?". You're basically saying that "love your country = put blind faith in your government and take whatever they do at face value and let yourself become a pawn to their schemes". This is unbelievably short-sighted of you.

I am sorry if that is what you took from my words, but I assure you that is not what I was saying.

Also, I was also not accusing you of being like that, because I don't think you are.

Unfortunately I do think that many people do equate loving their country with putting unquestionable blind faith in it. Not everyone, of course. But far too many people do... and I think we've seen a few examples of that here at TNL, which I why I posted my comments in the first place.

I hope you understand the difference. I agree that not everyone is like that, but I think you should also agree with me that individuals who do think that way are in error.


///\\\///

Originally posted by NightWolve
How witty... Are you done arguing with yourself?? Wow, just wow.. Please refrain from claiming to know what my "version" of America is.

I responded directly the words that you choose. In this post you continue to say the same things. So I stand by my previous reply.

Anyway, I invite anyone to take a look around sggg's website of choice (of course, as does he); click around for awhile and read a few articles... then decide for yourself if that site does, in part, fall under the definition of being anti-American... So yeah, feel free to disagree with sggg's view of disagreeing on what's anti-American.

Yes, please, if anyone wants to visit ZNet I encourage it. It's an excellent resouce and has links to articles and contibutions from award-winning, well respected, and leading authors from around the world - including the US.

You don't have to agree with anything there, but disagreement should be taken on an intellectual basis.

By the way, what do you define as Anti-American? As far as I can tell, many people seem to use this term mainly to shoot down ideas that are different from the establishment in the US. But what is Anti-American about people wanting to improve their country and making it a better place? You may not agree with their opinions. But calling them Anti-American for preferring different policies than you have is absurd.

By exercising their right to freedom of speech, opinion, and political thought they are behaving far closer to the "American ideal" people always talk about than the people who bash any non-establishment opinion as "Anti-American".

What a joke... "Yeah man.. don't be confused, it's just disagreeing (and a bit of demonizing, a bit of calling for total American regime change, a bit of calling for total social/communist revolution - no big deal, just minor 'disagreements' on your entire American society, that's all...)." riiight... Okie dokie...

People have a right to believe whatever they want. You should have more respect for people's right to different political opinions no matter how much you digagree with them. I am certain that they would afford you that right no matter how much they disagreed with your politics.

[YellerDog]

I find that very often, the proportion of a response to a critisism is directly related to how true the critisism is...

[Almaci]

Hehehehe