Disobey.

[spacecowboy]

Just for the record, I don't hate the United States. I love the United States and take a lot of pride in being one of its citizens. That's why it pains me so much to see my country not living up to its potential. Overall, I think the U.S. is the best place to live and I have been to other countries for reference. But there are things that could make this place even better. Programs of other countries might work well here. So we shouldn't be so arrogant to think that everyone has to copy us. We can borrow ideas from other countries, there is no shame in that, we've done it many times before. So I love the U.S. and all its people, that's why I am so adamant about these matters.

SC

PS GO SOONERS!! OKLAHOMA ALL THE WAY!!

[Almaci]

Do some people call you Maurice?

[spacecowboy]

Some call me the gangster of love...or gangsta...heh heh.

SC

[Almaci]

Hehe

[NightWolve]

Originally posted by maruchan
OF course someone brainwashed from the HQ of FOx News/CNN/MSNBC shows your cup of tea... would say that.. Where they Decdide for you, .. I Znet is a good site.. away from the blantly unrealibe mainstream news organization..

Of course, that's it... I'm just brainwashed by the right... obviously.. so, therefore, you're just brainwashed by the left... Oh well, damn... No objectivity to be found anywhere. I guess I'm supposed to let the crackpot that wrote this article decide for me.. No thx.. But, right back at ya, continue to believe what you want.. It's fine by me. Just don't expect me to take this article serious for one second. Anyway, spare me the brainwashed argument, it's so overused.

Originally posted by sggg
I responded directly the words that you choose. In this post you continue to say the same things. So I stand by my previous reply.

Then you'll continue to be wrong. Once again, refrain from claiming to know what my "version" of America is. You responded to something that's not there based on your prejudice.. And stop pretending it is there, for the sake of being right.

Originally posted by sggg
You don't have to agree with anything there, but disagreement should be taken on an intellectual basis.

I don't.. and I also don't believe I should show any respect, whatsoever, to a site like that... They certainly don't have respect for my views (based on a few of the random articles there), so I don't see why I should extend them the same courtesy. That's a bit one-sided to me.

Originally posted by sggg
By the way, what do you define as Anti-American? As far as I can tell, many people seem to use this term mainly to shoot down ideas that are different from the establishment in the US. But what is Anti-American about people wanting to improve their country and making it a better place? You may not agree with their opinions. But calling them Anti-American for preferring different policies than you have is absurd.

I'm more curious as to what YOU define as anti-American... How far is going too far for you??? Tell me what the limit is, where the line is drawn... You're right about some using it to shoot down ideas and views of others.. Kind of like equating someone to Hitler.. or calling someone a fascist because you don't agree with them... I think fascist is a tad bit more offensive, absurd, as opposed to anti-American, but whatever.

See, what you did is posted a view by a left-wing extremist, who is taking advantage of a war situation for political gain/points. I have no respect for that.. Why should I? Putting that article into context of what that site is all about, makes me reach the conclusion that this goes beyond a "simple" disagreement. Beyond a concerned American citizen exercising his/her freedom of speech.. I make a distinction between individuals or groups that hide behind the label of being "American", all the while working covertly/dubiously towards undermining various American principles, systems, and values.

Originally posted by sggg
By exercising their right to freedom of speech, opinion, and political thought they are behaving far closer to the "American ideal" people always talk about than the people who bash any non-establishment opinion as "Anti-American".

People have a right to believe whatever they want. You should have more respect for people's right to different political opinions no matter how much you digagree with them. I am certain that they would afford you that right no matter how much they disagreed with your politics.

Yes, people have a right to believe in whatever they want - thanks, we know that and don't patronize me... And they are behaving closer to the American ideal... Similarly, we also have a right to tell them we believe they're wrong... However, people don't have a constitutional right to try & ripp America a new asshole, and shove their beliefs down into it. Again, I make a distinction there, instead of narrowly lumping them all into a group that simply disagrees. That's deceptive, and it tries to disregard some reality. While I respect free speech, I don't respect propoganda.

With regards to the Iraq issue, I respect protesters'/dissenters' rights to speak out for a noble and honorable cause... That is, peace... But, what I find anti-American, is when noble/honorable causes are hijacked by groups and individuals like "Workers World Party"... The leftist America-haters, as they referred to... So, when I see those protester signs, and I see anti-capitolism, anti-Bush, anti-republican type messages, and I hear that Iraqis that wanted to speak out against Saddam Hussien were censored, because that kind of dissent was not allowed, I naturally get a little worried and more and more suspicious.

Anyhow, I'm not gonna show that site any respect; I'm gonna see it for what it is, a group running on an anti-American platform. That's my opinion.. You don't like it, or agree with it, that's fine. But trying to pass this article off as respectable journalism is going a bit too far... I'll at least compliment this "gentleman" for avoiding Godwin's Law, and making a wonderful comparison to Mussolini... Guess all those protesters now need to change their signs to "Bush is Mussolini... Fight fascism!!" Heh.

[Almaci]

So respectable journalism can only come from capitalist journalists?
Hmm wouldnt they be heavily biased towards the system they believe in then?

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by youandwhosearmy
Unfortunately, the problem with these left wing arguments is that they originate from the left wing.

Thom Yorke and Bono would both be ashamed to hear you say that.

[sggg]

Originally posted by NightWolve
I don't.. and I also don't believe I should show any respect, whatsoever, to a site like that... They certainly don't have respect for my views (based on a few of the random articles there), so I don't see why I should extend them the same courtesy. That's a bit one-sided to me.

Once again: I am 100% sure all of those authors respect and defend your RIGHT to believe whatever you want.

Unlike yourself.

I'm more curious as to what YOU define as anti-American... How far is going too far for you??? Tell me what the limit is, where the line is drawn... You're right about some using it to shoot down ideas and views of others.. Kind of like equating someone to Hitler.. or calling someone a fascist because you don't agree with them... I think fascist is a tad bit more offensive, absurd, as opposed to anti-American, but whatever.

First you would have to define "American". If you say that it means any citizen of the USA, then I would tell you that people who want to improve their nation and the quality of life for it's citizens are not "Anti-American". There is nothing wrong with believing in truth, justice, and freedom.

I would define an "Anti-American" as a person like you, who does not respect the right of people to have different political views.

Here is a poster for you. Sorry about the poor image quality. I guess you will not be able to print it out and tape it to your wall:

While I respect free speech, I don't respect propoganda.

That's funny. Because you seem so well educated and informed. I can only assume that you get your news from the most respected news agencies, and that you know exactly who owns and finances them, what they are allowed to report - what they are not, what their agenda is, why they exist - profit, and exactly how they get profit.

You've probably also done extensive research on international news sources, UN studies, and world history as well - this way you can debunk anything "Anti-American". You know a fact when you see it and you know EXACTLY who to believe: CNN, Time Magazine, George W. Bush, and your elementary school text book. Right on!

I'll bet you have even studied the history of propaganda, because you can clearly spot it when you see it! Bravo!

[Clash!]

SGGG it seems to me that from your advice its best to not believe anyone. It sounds like the best plan is to sit in a Empty room and not listen to anyone talk because really you have no idea if you are being lied to. Because the only way to do that is to read minds. I can't read minds, and neither can you.

Ok so we should not trust CNN, Time Magazine, the President, I suppose the Associated Press as well. And any other major News Provider. Maybe I should read some more Underground type newspapers, but wait. For all I know is that they have some personal motive as well, and could be bending the truth and making up some facts of their own.

The only way to get facts is to see them your self, but that would cost me loads of Money to fly all over the world to see if something really did happan.

You have been posting all sorts of Documents from various others, what makes them more reliable then CNN or Time Magazine of the president? For all we know they could be lying, and bending the truth. Every one has a motive.

[Tracer]

Originally posted by sggg
In your version of "America" anyone who disagrees with the actions and policies of their government is "anti-American" eh?

Wow... just wow...

I guess anyone who opposed Hitler was anti-German too?

I need a digital camera - I see so many charming bumper stickers these days.

New one: "(Picture of American Flag)<---- Love it or Leave It" which kinda struck me as 'Obey!' heh... no reason though.

I don't particularly care for the article though.