Matrix Reloaded

[Gondolin]

Bah, Regus is kicking my ass in this argument.

I'll just exit by saying that, while I agree Reloaded could have been better, it was by no means a poor film, IMO... and Despair's a crazy mofo.

Gon

[Despair]

I know I am

I still have alot of hope for Revolutions, as it looks way more stylish and with better action than Reloaded could provide.

[Will]

So Despair, what did you like better so far X2 or Matrix Reloaded?

For me I still liked X2 a bit more but Matrix was pretty good, especially in the fight scenes, to hold its own a bit. I want to buy the Matrix DVD and game now....

[JMET]

I personally thought the fight scenes in Equilibrium were rather bland and too sparse...

And to complain about "invinceable Neo" did the main guy in Equil have any probs with anyone..

Hell he would just start firing off in weird directions and they dropped like flies..

[Despair]

Will, I liked X2 much more than Reloaded. It had better pace, and fight sequences like Wolverin VS Lady Death strike had much more power and were more brutal than anything Reloaded had. Sure Reloaded had better special fx and deeper story, but as both are Big Action films, X2 had better action.

JMET - That what I felt about Reloaded. Unlike EQ, fights DIDNT had enough impact or Power in them, and were little too long. Sure EQ could have had more action in it, but what it had HIT hard, where Reloaded just made you wish it would skip to the next scene.

Preston did get hurt a bit, just like Keanu did. If you notice at the end, you can see him bleeding from the neck, plus he had his lip blodied

Both were Saviour like figures who freed humans from under the rule of machines/facistic state where humans were like the machines.

Both had skills, but I though Bale performed MUCH better in his fighting, swordfighting and gunplay, where Keanu improved from first Matrix, but still quite stiff in his action scenes.

[JMET]

I think your obsession with DMC has warped your brain into thinking Equilibrium was better then it was.

Seriously though, the main guy would walk into a room and start shooting in all directions, then the camera would spin around to the bad guys and you'd see them all drop to the floor...

Wow the suspense and action...



Like I said, I liked the movie and even picked it up.. however I like crappy movies but realise that they are crappy.

[Despair]

Well, If you looked more into Gun Kata then you could have suspended you disbelief on what Master of the Discipline can do. Bale character wasnt just standing in one place, he was constantly moving and changing body position to avoid incoming fire, and if director wanted to show it Matrix like, then you would have seen bullets flying around him. There are alot of bullet hits all around him, many hitting the same spot where he just was, so its not like it was totally unbelievable.

And YES it HAD suspence and BETTER action, where director DIDNT waste Millions on overuse of Special FX of which MANY were LIFTER from the first film.

Again, why doest it bother you that I didnt like Reloaded?? It doesnt bother me that you like it.

My DMC obsession has nothing to do with the fact, I like this film more. My fiwe thought exactly the same, and she isnt as crazy action film lover as I am

[Will]

Hmm I guess I can agree. Looking back at it non-chalantly without coming fresh out of seeing it, the movie was solid but not as good as the first. All the heroes were too stoic and robotic(besides a few scenes that Neo/Architect talk and the tv's "Bullshit!" heheh). The clips I've seen from the Enter the Matrix game of Ghost and Niobi had more of a heartfelt feel. Also the movie's 'philosophical' talk was too fabricated to confuse and was often talked about more than the plot.

Going back to the much discussed party/rave scene, it went on for a bit too long but it wasn't that big of a deal for me though as it was for others.

A bit surprising seeing how hyped to hell it was. So far it has gotten many mixed opinions. It did get too boring in the first half aside from the action scenes. I dunno it overall lacked the personality the first had, maybe due to the insane budget that the Wachowski's had that the first one didn't.

I think they made the mistake of overusing CG and focusing more on the spectacle of the fights(which were great though BTW). But anyway I definitely want to see it again though, maybe repeat viewings can clear up certain things I didn't catch in the first.

[JMET]

Im just having some good fun debating this with you...

Jesus I need to watch those 3-4 fight scenes again to watch his magical bullet dodging contortion technique..

[Despair]

Will, I honestly found Enter the Matrix more fun to play/watch DJ play it, than Reloaded in theaters. Same goes for seeing trailer for Revolution had me exited(gunplay, Mechs, hopefully better fights).

Rave/Love scene could have been either cut or shortened - it REALLY didnt add anything to the film, and if they wanted to show on how people can celebrate in the face of danger, they could have done it in a better way.

You noted the part of characters looking too robotic in the fight scenes, and I can relate to that. You just didnt felt like rooting for them, where it was more of battle of one machine against the other. Especially when at the end it REALLY didnt had anything to show for it.

Jmet, you do that Sure if you look at that with REAL LIFE point of view, sure they look totally unbelivable, but in the focus of the film, they suited well.

[Kidnemo]

Matrix > X2 > Reloaded > X-men

[Despair]

I agree with Kidnemo for a second time today

[Will]

Heh, interesting 'greater than OR less than' comparisons Kidnemo.

[FuryFox]

Well, I never saw Equilibrium, but I completely agree with despair on the lacking nature of the fight scenes in MR.

They lacked tension and motivation. Smith's MO was generally just to muse with Neo and then try to beat him up, the agents' motivation was unclear and they were generally ineffective in this movie, and anything involving Neo was so lopp-sided it became uninteresting. The only fight of any real interest other than the aesthetic was between Seraph and Neo, mostly because the seemed like an even match (evenly matched fights are the best because fighters have to think of inventive or interesting strategies to get the one up) -although, even this scene was almost tarnished with the cheese of, "you never really get to know someone until you fight them." *rolls eyes*

One thing I don't like is how stiff and slow the fights can be...for instance, the first three agents Neo fights were just plain slow...the first agent's initial attack was a spinning heel kick to Neo's head (the lamest of all initial attacks), and damn if I and everyone in my club can't throw faster, better kicks than that...and we don't even have our frames sped up. It seems like there were far too many instances of that in the movie...having someone like the previously-rumored Jet Li in the movie would have gone a long way to making it more authentic. -and it was generally painfully obvious when a CG model was being subbed in for someone, but it's probably more so since we're all familiar and expecting that technique now.

ALSO: The movie really needed a strong antagonist. Agent Smith, my favorite character of the first, has been toned down considerably, as even a huge group of him can only hold up Neo for a bit. He's no longer threatening, although the scenes from Revolution make it look like he'll be brought into prominence again. The Architect was an interesting character, but again, not really an antagonist. Most of the programs and sentinels only come across as obstacles; motive-less. Part of the problem is of course the lack of any discernable actuality in the film, and thus it's hard to make anything seem important when it could just as likely be an illusion. A problem the first film was much more considerate of.

LASTLY: From all I've heard here, seen on the net, and come up with through analysis with my friends, there is NO definitive conclusion on the nature of the plot, the history of the Matrix, etc. It's starting to have the trappings of existential absurdity, and if it goes that way, it'd almost be as bad as Keanu Reeves waking up in the next movie and going, "Whoa, it was all a dream. Or was it (cue "Duh Duh DUH")?" I think this was a definite shortcoming of the film. I realize that it was intended to be enigmatic, and leaves things for the next, but I feel a bit cheated as a viewer when I can't come to any conclusions about the story, at all, even after thinking about it much longer than the film deserves.

[Despair]

Originally posted by FuryFox
Well, I never saw Equilibrium, but I completely agree with despair on the lacking nature of the fight scenes in MR.

They lacked tension and motivation. Smith's MO was generally just to muse with Neo and then try to beat him up, the agents' motivation was unclear and they were generally ineffective in this movie, and anything involving Neo was so lopp-sided it became uninteresting. The only fight of any real interest other than the aesthetic was between Seraph and Neo, mostly because the seemed like an even match (evenly matched fights are the best because fighters have to think of inventive or interesting strategies to get the one up) -although, even this scene was almost tarnished with the cheese of, "you never really get to know someone until you fight them." *rolls eyes*

The fact that Seraph was played by HK actor, who knows martial arts quite well, added to authenicity of the scene. He moved very well and gracefully(and he was ALSO a program, so you cant really say that programs/machines can only move in robotic ways), unlike Agents, and Smith. Maybe he a better program

Who knows, maybe I will like Reloaded more after watching it on dvd.

[FuryFox]

Originally posted by Despair
He moved very well and gracefully(and he was ALSO a program, so you cant really say that programs/machines can only move in robotic ways), unlike Agents, and Smith. Maybe he a better program

Indeed, the Matrix as a metaphor for the operations of a computer simulation really just doesn't hold up too well sometimes. What exactly is happening as they fight agents anyway? Is their data trying to assert heirarchical advantage over the agents' data?

Another thing about the fight scenes: They are typically over-choreographed...meaning, that actors will often move into the next motion of their "fight" (like a block, or ducking, attacking, whatever) at the same time the catalyst for that motion occurs. In otherwords, at times there is no action/reaction...actors are throwing a punch to be blocked, and the defenders are blocking where they know a punch will be. It's like those bad swashbuckling movies where the actors just hit their swords together without any intention of actually hitting each other.

Perhaps, in context of the movie, it makes sense for the characters to be "in tune" with the flow of the data, or something, but that doesn't mean it makes for good fightin'

[EvilMog]

Hmm after reading most of this board I wonder if some of you enjoy any movies at all. Some of you are WAY overcritical. Some of you talk as if you write scipts and produce movies yourselves.

Try sitting back, and actually ENJOYING what your seeing. Stop whining about how little tiny sections of CG dont look right.


LOL @ the guy who said Neos wrist doesnt look right during a part of the Smith fight. Your a sad little boy.


IMO, the movie ruled and the fights WERE FUCKING SPECTACULAR!



BTW, I agree the ZION orgy was out of place. Maybe if it wasnt so long. Other than that I loved it.

[Despair]

Well, Did you actually read me whining about CGI not looking right?? As for just sitting back and enjoying whats being displayed on the screen, I wish I could. See, the story didnt bother me one bit here, its some of the action(and am I wrong to Actually expect a GOOD action from the action film?) was done in less spectacular manner, some of the people claiming it to be.

I'm USUALLY one of the MOST FORGIVING people when it comes to movies. I tend to like most of what I see, but here its one of the more rare cases when things didnt work out for me.

Mog, if you liked it, great for you, just dont whine because some of us didnt like it.

[Rumpy]

For those looking to get a more philosophical look at Reloaded: http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm

[MVS]

Originally posted by EvilMog007
Hmm after reading most of this board I wonder if some of you enjoy any movies at all. Some of you are WAY overcritical. Some of you talk as if you write scipts and produce movies yourselves.

Try sitting back, and actually ENJOYING what your seeing. Stop whining about how little tiny sections of CG dont look right.

I know, it's like that guy who met a girl, went back to her place and she tied him up and had a man dressed as Batman come out and sodomize him.

I mean...this guy actually had the balls to complain! What's up with that? Can't he just enjoy it?