Contemplating infinity...

[Mr-K]

Maybe after the end it's a beginning? But then IT WOULD HAVE TO BE CIRCULAR AND WHAT'S OUTSIDE THE SPHERE?!?!? OMFFFFFFFFGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

[Dolemite]

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
The size of the universe doesn't bug me out nearly as much as the infinity of time. Specifically, the infinity of time in the reverse direction. Go back as far as you care to go, and there is still a day before that. It doesn't seem possible that there wasn't a "first second/minute/hour", and yet it doesn't seem possible that there was because of the "well, what about the second before that" question.

Oh, man, that's right. I've turned this over in my head a few times too. Just like it's hard to comprehend infinity, it's hard to comprehend the concept of time having a beginning OR an ending (the concept of "nothing"). I mean, how could there have been or be a time when there was or is...nothing? If it ends, what comes next? What existed before time began? :whoa:

Originally posted by Mr-K
Maybe after the end it's a beginning? But then IT WOULD HAVE TO BE CIRCULAR AND WHAT'S OUTSIDE THE SPHERE?!?!? OMFFFFFFFFGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

See what I mean?

Every contemplation or theory opens up new questions...it'll give your brain a workout.

[BioMechanic]

I don't think anything "existed" before "time began".

In order for something to exist, it must have a beginning and an end, and therefore is restricted to the limits of time. Following this, I don't think infinity "exists" per se, because it has no beginning or end by definition. And then I think that the universe can't be infinite because it does exist. What's beyond it? Who can say - we'll never know, and I can accept that. Just like I'll never fully understand the workings of my wife's mind, she's still my wife nonetheless.

Also, I think time itself doesn't really "exist" either, at least before humans created the concept. It's a human invention, a way for us finite organisms to measure and label things in an attempt to make sense out of things we can't comprehend. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Some physicists say that the universe is in fact imploding.

If our universe is 0.00000000000000000000000000001 millimeters smaller than infinity, even then there must be an infinite number of other universes. Makes my brain hurt.

Carl Sagan's book "Contact" talks about a hidden code that's built into the structure of pi. The aliens who used the transit system in the story had calculated pi to millions of places, and eventually there was a definite non-accidental pattern buried deep within. They'd yet to figure it out. Pi is one of the building blocks of mathematics, and yet it's portrayed in the book as being an artificial creation. Fiction (probably), but still awesome to think about.

[Wolffen]

Well, according to some theories, before the big bang, there was no time. Time, like gravity, exists because the universe exists. Before there was a universe, there was no time. Likewise, if there is ever a big crunch (the universe collapsing in on itself to a point of singularity), time will come to an end when the universe ends. How's that for a mind fuck? Granted, those are theories...

For further brain workouts, I suggest www.michiokaku.com . He's got some interesting theories on hyperspace, string theory, time travel, etc....

[Gymkata]

I usualy think about it this way.

In math there is a technique for finding areas underneath curvy objects called "Reimann Summs". When the idea was first introduced to me in High School, I was amazed. I mean we can find the area of easy shapes like rectangles and triangles, but for Waves and parabolas? To quote a wise young man "Thats unpossible!".

However the basis of the technique (Im horrible at explaining things so I wont go into it today) resides in approximation. With the correct approximation, you can get a close understanding to the idea of infinity. You may never get there, but for what we are working with (i.e. the human mind & language) its pretty damn good.

Just be glad that we are not actualy confronted with the idea of infinity in our normal everyday world. I am currently reading a novel called "Eon" where an anomoly suddenly shows up in space and a select few are chosen to find out what its all about. Lets just say that the novel pretty much illustrates the human reaction torwards freaky things like infinity. I know that if all of a sudden, I would be lookin at infinity in a manner other than what I have normaly experienced, the nice men in the white coats would have to come and take me away.

[Dyne]

speking of poop....anyone ever have a turd that seems to go on forever? and then some nagging date or appointment makes it so you have to pinch it off prematurely. then you never know if that particular turd was endless.

[StriderKyo]

The universe is infinite. Man uses logic to comprehend things, but that's only the way our normal, every day thought works. Certain...uh...eastern philosophies (and some western, as well) hold that rationality is in fact a limitation on our minds, and that we can only comprehend true reality when we learn to step outside of the lockstep closed loop of logic and apprehended perception. You know, like that spoon-bending kid in The Matrix.

That doesn't mean that the only thing outside of logic is random gobbledygook, merely an evolution of comprehension which cannot be accurately defined within the boundaries of our everyday 1+1=2 minds. (After all, what are 1 and 2, other than mental constructs we use to label and divide a world which exists the way it does whether we label and divide it or not?)

I believe infinity can be comprehended, it just takes an exceptionally developed mind to do it.

[cka]

Originally posted by arjue
I think the universe ends. Evidence of this: scientists say the universe is expanding, and in order to expand, you need the capability to get bigger .

I'll buy that. BUT:

What if the universe is in the design of a sphere? You can obtain the illusion that you keep going forward while you wrap around it, much like how it appears when you fly on a plane and look out the window. Maybe there's a centrifical source (or startpoint, if you will) of the universe which has some sort of undetectable gravity holding the sphere together. Your mind will interprit moving forward as moving across the plane of the universe while in actuality you wrap around the universe itself. Therefore, the universe gives the illusion of infinity while not being infinite at all.

</out-of-ass>

[Omni]

I subscribe to theory of the oscillating universe, in which the universe continually expands and contracts.

But I believe a large part of the problem is the inability to comprehend the concept of "nothing."

People used to believe that space itself was "nothing," but we now know that it's composed of particles that we just have a hard time detecting.

But like some have said before, if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into? I think alot of people get hung up on the fact that something must be beyond the universe in order for it to be expanding, but I think the idea of "nothing" is perfectly plausible.

[/out of my ass]

I'd try to make more sense out of this post, but I gotta leave for work.

[Captain Vegetable]

Everytime I ponder infinity, it always gets so overwhelming. Starting from any given point in a time line and going forward from there is no problem...but going forward and backward eternally is a bit difficult to wrap one's mind around...and then when you get rid of that "any given point" and start looking at it as is, whoo boy! Good luck.

There are times when I've wished man's mind wasn't so damned liniar in the way it understands time. Then, maybe, we'd have some kind of perspective.