Roger Clemens

[youandwhosearmy]

So here it is, the baseball question of the season.

Should Roger Clemen's be inducted as a Red Sox, or a Yankee.

Roger believes he belongs there as a Yankee, after all he won all his world championships as one.

However they don't induct people into the hall of fame for winning World Series, they induct you for amazing accomplishiments.

And ALL of Roger's amazing accomplishments were as a red sox.

So I ask, I Roger being a whiny bitch? Or is Roger being screwed?


Edit: Whoops sorry, didn't realize I was in Gaming discussion.

[Jeremy]

Red Sox, it fits the billing for hall of fame recommendation.

[MVS]

Can't he be both?

He's got skills, I'll say that much.

They should just put people in and say what teams they played for.

And fucking give Pete Rose his props while they are at it.

[Saint of Killers]

Clemens is a whiny bitch and a great pitcher. He should go in as a Red Sox (say that out loud. It sounds really funny).

Originally posted by MVS
And fucking give Pete Rose his props while they are at it.

Hell no. If Pete Rose wants in he can apologize and admit he was wrong. Otherwise he can go fuck himself. He ain't getting in to the Hall as is, and that's the way it should be.

[StriderKyo]

Clemens should go in as a Jay, heh. But that aside, he's a whiny bitch; I wish to heck the Mets had beaned him last year. Lord knows he has it coming.

And leave Pete Rose out of the hall. It's retarded to give someone a lifetime ban and then say it shouldn't count because he was good.

[Jimmy Carter]

Red Sox, me thinks. It's what I think of him as. I know he's on the Yanks, but when I think of Clemens I think Red Sox.

[Stone]

Fuck him - it's his career, the Red Sox don't need him as one of their players in the Hall if he doesn't want to wear the cap.

[youandwhosearmy]

Originally posted by StriderKyo
Clemens should go in as a Jay, heh. But that aside, he's a whiny bitch; I wish to heck the Mets had beaned him last year. Lord knows he has it coming.

And leave Pete Rose out of the hall. It's retarded to give someone a lifetime ban and then say it shouldn't count because he was good.

I love you strider, but he is a sox, not a blue jay.

The thing is I can't stand the dude anymore so I don't really care what he does. I'm ashamed to say he made his name on our team, because he is prick.

[Shine]

Why did Boston trade him again? and what the fuck could they have gotten that made it worht losing a guy whod go on to win 5 (or more, I forget) Cy Young awards?

Yankee because that's when he exploded and became an excellent pitcher - moreso than he innitially was, anyhow.

[youandwhosearmy]

Originally posted by ShineAqua
Why did Boston trade him again? and what the fuck could they have gotten that made it worht losing a guy whod go on to win 5 (or more, I forget) Cy Young awards?

Yankee because that's when he exploded and became an excellent pitcher - moreso than he innitially was, anyhow.

Actually he wanted to leave, because the team was a downswing it wasn't worth keeping him here.

He exploded on the Red Sox, and he exploded on the blue jays.


He NEVER really exploded on the yankees, though he did pitch like a champ. Sorry though there is no precedent to put him in the hall of fame as a yankee, because they don't put people in the hall of fame for winning world series.

[stormy]

i've been a red sox fan my whole life. Fuck Roger Clemens, i don't see why he hates Boston so much. Kicking him out was the best thing that ever happened to him, finally convinced him to stop dogging it and get in shape. The rumors that he would re-sign with the sox so he could finish his career in Boston sent cold chills down my spine. Be assured, Boston still hates him and we will never bury this hatchet. Rot in hell with your Yankees cap Roger.

[Klonoa]

Originally posted by youandwhosearmy


And ALL of Roger's amazing accomplishments were as a red sox.

He did get his 300th win and 4000th K as a Yank.



I think he should go in as both a Yank and a Bosock.

[youandwhosearmy]

Originally posted by Klonoa
He did get his 300th win and 4000th K as a Yank.



I think he should go in as both a Yank and a Bosock.

I acknowledge that obviously, but the point is the majority of his awards and commendations came as a Red Sox, and if this was anyone else, say Tom Glavine, I wouldn't care if they made an exception to induct him as both a Brave and a Met.

But Clemen's doesn't deserve special treatment, because he likes to whine to get it.

[Kinopio]

I wouldn't want him to go in with a Red Sox cap. After the things he has said, he doesn't deserve to. He forgot his roots so he can fuck off.

[Ragnarok the Red]

Roger can go in however he pleases, even though I've always hated the Yankees, it ultimately is his and his choice alone.

There are some people up till now who have second-guessed Nolan Ryan's decision to enter the Hall as a Texas Ranger (not me, tho ) seeing as how many of his great accomplishments were with the Mets (his only WS title in '69 with The Amazings) and Angels and Astros (majority of his wins and SOs). But because of all the adulation he got with the Rangers, basically being the franchises symbol from the late 80's to early 90's, getting his 5000th strikeout, 300th win, 6th and 7th no-hitters, he decided to go in as a Ranger. And personally, I'd never second-guess one of the greatest pitchers of all-time when it came to such decision-making.

As for Rose, I've always been an overly-forgiving person in many repsects, but I've always felt it was a complete farce that the guy with more hits than anyone who's ever played the game is not in the Hall. Off-field actions should not be such a deterrent to getting into the Hall. It didn't keep LT out of the NFL HOF, it shouldn't be with Rose and the MLB HOF.

/me gets off pedestal and puts .02 cents back in pocket

[Klonoa]

The greatest memory I have of Nolan Ryan was when he got Robin Ventura in a headlock and proceeded to give him the noogie of his life.

[StriderKyo]

Originally posted by youandwhosearmy
I love you strider, but he is a sox, not a blue jay.

I wasn't being serious, the team just needs some names in there. Besides, everyone hates him (and David Wells) here too.

Originally posted by Ragnarok the Red
It didn't keep LT out of the NFL HOF, it shouldn't be with Rose and the MLB HOF.

Only because Canton would be empty if the NFL counted that stuff. But Rose's infraction was different - all LT did was smoke crack, and he at least had the balls to admit it.

[Rich]

Of coarse I'm a Yankee fan so you know hwat I'd choose, but I personally think it should be the choice os the person being inducted.

[Tyler_Durden]

He used to be my favorite player back when he was on the Sox. Now I would enjoy seeing him walk into an oncoming bus. Fuck Roger, he shouldn't even get inducted.

[Joust Williams]

"And leave Pete Rose out of the hall. It's retarded to give someone a lifetime ban and then say it shouldn't count because he was good."

While what I'm about to give was tolerated...why leave Ty Cobb in the Hall? He's worse than Rose ever was, the only difference being that it was tolerated in those days.

[BioMechanic]

He should go in as someone who is scared to death of pitching in the National League.

[Cheebs]

Originally posted by MVS
And fucking give Pete Rose his props while they are at it.

Amen to that. He didn't do anything half as bad as the various drug offenders who didn't get banned. The commissioner just had it out for him, and Pete got fucked.

[Joust Williams]

It's a requirement for baseball commissioners to be incompetent. Look at who is in there now.

Not that I love Pete, but man...give the guy a break. He did more good for the sport that many in the Hall ever did.

[stormy]

in response to the pete rose comments, anyone who believes he is innocent should read this and then reconsider thier opinion.

excerpt

6) Why is betting on baseball a bad thing? Guys who take drugs or beat their wives don't get such harsh punishment. Lots of them are in the Hall of Fame.

Gambling is the worst thing a ballplayer can do, because it undermines the integrity of the game. Since the goals of the gambler are different than the normal goals of a baseball team, fan's trust in the game is shaken.

The use of drugs or other offenses are sometimes punished by baseball. While these may be crimes against society, they are not necessarily crimes against baseball.

not that this is really a valid excuse for Rose, he associated with cocaine dealers, and even brought them into the club house.

A good link for the case against Rose by my favorite baseball writer Rob Neyer.

Back to Clemens, maybe we should start another topic for Rose.

[warnpro]

Clemens is both a thug and great pitcher.

Two things come to mind in recent years.
I haven't read all posts in this thread maybe someone mentioned these already.

The famous incident where he first beaned Mike Piazza, in the head if I remember right. Then later, while pitching to Piazza, Mike broke his bat and half of the bat went out to the pitchers mound, where Clemens picked up the bat and hurled it towards Piazza's feet as he was going down the first base line.
Clemens should have been ejected/suspended/fined for that, although I believe he was given a free pass on that one.

Just last year when facing the S.F Giants in New York, Clemens said he was going to hit Barry Bonds on his arm, and see if the padding, protection pad Bonds wears does the job.
Sure enough, in Bonds first at bat against Clemens last year, Roger plunked him right on his right arm pad. Clemens says he's going to intentially go after and hit Bonds, he does just that, and again is given a free pass by umpires/baseball.

Oh yeah, it should be up to Major League Baseball and the Hall of Fame to determine what cap goes along with Clemens when he is inducted. It should be the Sox, what did he pitch for them for 13 years?

[Shine]

I say let Roger do as he pleases. If he doesn't want to go in as a Sox s be it. I can see why he wouldn't though. I wouldn't want to go down in history as the team that was always second to the Yankees.

[Saint of Killers]

Originally posted by Ragnarok the Red
Roger can go in however he pleases, even though I've always hated the Yankees, it ultimately is his and his choice alone.

It's not his choice. The Hall decides what cap a player wears.

As for Rose, I've always been an overly-forgiving person in many repsects, but I've always felt it was a complete farce that the guy with more hits than anyone who's ever played the game is not in the Hall. Off-field actions should not be such a deterrent to getting into the Hall. It didn't keep LT out of the NFL HOF, it shouldn't be with Rose and the MLB HOF.

Betting on games he was involved in isn't an off-field action.

I can't see why people continue to defend Rose. All the swell-headed fuck has to do is admit he gambled and apologize, and he's in.

[Master]

I hope he loses his arm in some sort of an auto injury.

When you turn your back on the Red Sox, you deserve to die.

PS: Bosox for life.

PPS: Rose should NEVER be let in. He should die out of the hall of fame.

[MVS]

Originally posted by Saint of Killers
Hell no. If Pete Rose wants in he can apologize and admit he was wrong. Otherwise he can go fuck himself. He ain't getting in to the Hall as is, and that's the way it should be.

Who gives a fuck? One thing has nothing to do with the other.

On statistical fact alone, he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Just as OJ Simpson should be in the NFL HOF (if he isn't already).

I don't care if he's a gambling junkie, or was, or a racist prick like Ty Cobb, statistics alone dictate they be there.

Originally posted by StriderKyo
And leave Pete Rose out of the hall. It's retarded to give someone a lifetime ban and then say it shouldn't count because he was good.

He's got a ban, and that's fine. It doesn't change the fact of the stats he put up.

He should get his props for that, no matter what he did nor what punishment he recieved.

Originally posted by stormy
in response to the pete rose comments, anyone who believes he is innocent should read this and then reconsider thier opinion.

excerpt


not that this is really a valid excuse for Rose, he associated with cocaine dealers, and even brought them into the club house.

A good link for the case against Rose by my favorite baseball writer Rob Neyer.

Back to Clemens, maybe we should start another topic for Rose.

Doesn't matter.

He could kill his wife and blow up a school bus, it doesn't change the fact that he put up the numbers worthy of recognition.

I'm not saying he's a good man, but he earned a place in the hall of fame without question.

Originally posted by Master
PPS: Rose should NEVER be let in. He should die out of the hall of fame.

Why?

He earned it. You're going to say that putting up the most hits in the history of the game doesn't deserve to be recognized?

That's completely retarded.

[Gooch]

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
Amen to that. He didn't do anything half as bad as the various drug offenders who didn't get banned. The commissioner just had it out for him, and Pete got fucked.

If the allegations are true - such as Rose betting on and against his own team while he was their coach - the man should not even be considered for the Hall of Fame. Cheating is one thing, fixing is another. Shoeless Joe Jackson should be in the Hall before Rose even gets considered.

Clemens should go in as a Red Sox. The Hall of Fame is part of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum; a museum must be as factually accurate in the representation of both the player and his accomplishments. Clemens' preference of what cap he wears in the Hall should be completely irrelevant. Tough shit, Roger, you can't get your way all the time. No one's bitching because Gary Carter went in as an Expo rather than a Met.

With that said Clemens is the best pitcher I've seen in my lifetime, but he is a whiny bitch.