Futureshop: Buy 1, get 11 free

[Rumpy]

Using the NHL is a bad example, in compairison to the other major sports, they are dirt poor. Remember kids: support the NHL, they need you.

Matt, roll this one through your mind, I'm curious about this. Using the "girlfriend cheats" scenerio used earlier, what if you tell the guy and he gets REALLY pissed. The next day you see on the news that he beat the shit out of her putting her in the hospital for 2 weeks and now he's in police custody. How would you feel about your phone call knowing that you were the catalyst for the attack? Would you be called in to testify for court? I'd imagine they would be able to track you down.

[Tommy Tallarico]

Jesus. Matt did the right thing and he gets fucking jumped on for it, and you people liken it to flaming a retard on a message board. There might be someone out there right now who got fired or might get fired because of the SC2 fuckup. Really classy.

[mollipen]

I don't think anyone was telling you it's the right thing to do. If anything I was trying to justify why most people would probably want to keep them. Not everyone has a comfortable enough life to always live morally unforunately, so personal gain many times takes priority.

Well, I was ready to just happily agree with what you said, because of course I understand the desire to keep the games. If it were me, I'd WANT to keep the games. But what you want to do and what you should do are often times different.

... but then, you go and say "not everyone has a comfortable enough life to always live morally," which is the biggest load of bull. Living "comfortably" doesn't have jack crap to do with morals, and being poor doesn't give you free reigh to toss morals aside. I don't live comfortably - I mean, I don't have to beg for food, but I'm certainly what one would call "well off." So it's not like I'm sitting here telling him to send the games back while lounging around my mansion and having my servant girls bringing me drinks or whatnot.

If he has enough money to buy Soul Calibur and a memory card in the first place, he isn't in a position where you could justify him doing something wrong because of the financial gain. If we were talking the difference between his baby being fed or not, THEN a serious discussion on the matter could begin. But even then, it still isn't right to do something wrong to solve the problem you have.

right or wrong, I think we can all agree MVS is a prick.

Actually, this time... again, strange as it may seem... I don't.

So, yes, I feel sorry for this guy. He tried to share something that brought him some joy with others, and instead the people he wanted to tell the tale to ended up turning him in. He's going to feel pretty shitty in the morning, and for that, I feel remorse for the guy. Thus, I apologize.

"Hey look guys, a company made a legitimate screw-up, and I'm going to stick it to the man and toss morals aside! Aren't I just the coolest!"

Later...

"Aw man, people are actually bitching at me for acting like an ass. And now they might find out..."

*tear forms in the corner of his eye*

Yup... feel reeeeeeeally sorry for the guy.

Whether or not he returns those games is certainly none of anybodys business on here. Especially MVS. Say, MVS, did you really send them that email? I'd be just as happy reporting you to your ISP the next time you flame somebody on here, and well, since that's basically what you did to him (informing a business of a problem) I wouldn't feel the least bit guilty doing it to you. But I bet you wouldn't really like that now, would you...

Yeah, because flaming and STEALING are the exact same thing, moron.

[Mzo]

Yeah, because flaming and STEALING are the exact same thing, moron.

True. But that wasn't the point he was trying to get across.

Being a fink is being a fink.

[x2y]

Sign me up for one after the month is over...

Unless you're going to sell it on eBay like a goddamned THIEF!

lol, can I get one too?

[bbobb]

I think Matt was entirely in the right here... fraud is fraud... and reporting it is the right thing to do...

Whistle-blowing is a form of loyality.

Whether MVS intended it that way or not, he helped the thief in question answer for the good that he should have at the very begining.

MVS helped him seek what was in his true self interest. There's nothing altruistic about that.

And I happen to agree with MVS. He did the right thing, and even though he says he doesn't think it's praise worthy, I'm still going to tell him so.

I'm in 100% agreeance with your christian values on this point.

[Captain Vegetable]

I think Matt was entirely in the right here... fraud is fraud... and reporting it is the right thing to do...

I'm in 100% agreeance with your christian values on this point.

Except that my Christian values begin with a capitol "C."

[MVS]

Using the NHL is a bad example, in compairison to the other major sports, they are dirt poor. Remember kids: support the NHL, they need you.

Matt, roll this one through your mind, I'm curious about this. Using the "girlfriend cheats" scenerio used earlier, what if you tell the guy and he gets REALLY pissed. The next day you see on the news that he beat the shit out of her putting her in the hospital for 2 weeks and now he's in police custody. How would you feel about your phone call knowing that you were the catalyst for the attack? Would you be called in to testify for court? I'd imagine they would be able to track you down.

Interesting, but I wouldn't feel any guilt.

I've had to testify when a friend of mine got beat up by her boyfriend before, and this wouldn't be different.

I wouldn't feel the slightest bit responsible, nor see it as being the catalyst. I can no more control other people's reactions that you can.

There are a few things I believe in, but 2 stand out:

Never fuck with another man's girl, and never fuck with his livelihood.

In your situation or this one, by something it might annoy someone who wants to be blissfully ignorant, but basic human respect dictates that they be told.

Ask someone who works at a store, like JohnPV.

John, would you want to know if you made an error like this at Funcoland?

[Shin Johnpv]

Hells yeah id want to know

some one has to pay for an error like that

why should you get to keep 11 games and some one else might lose their job and not be able to find their kids for awhile cause of this

A couple times the Post office has given me too much back in Change and i always give it back to them

its the right thing to do

Some one could have been fired for an error like this, some one could have a hard time feeding their wife and kids now because of this, and for what to keep some extra games to put a few hundred bucks into your pocket, its fucked up

also dont think that if they did eventually figure this out they would charge you for the extra 11 copies you didnt send back

Its like that assclown awhile back who made a post about putting in a cdr or something into a game case and re-shrinking it and returning it to best buy thinking wed all praise him for being an assclown

[sggg]

Using the NHL is a bad example, in compairison to the other major sports, they are dirt poor. Remember kids: support the NHL, they need you.

Especially la Sainte-Flanelle! Sacre bleu.

[MVS]

Whistle-blowing is a form of loyality.

Whether MVS intended it that way or not, he helped the thief in question answer for the good that he should have at the very begining.

MVS helped him seek what was in his true self interest. There's nothing altruistic about that.

And I happen to agree with MVS. He did the right thing, and even though he says he doesn't think it's praise worthy, I'm still going to tell him so.

At least you, John, AFX, and a few others get it.

[NoFace]

Well, I was ready to just happily agree with what you said, because of course I understand the desire to keep the games. If it were me, I'd WANT to keep the games. But what you want to do and what you should do are often times different.

... but then, you go and say "not everyone has a comfortable enough life to always live morally," which is the biggest load of bull. Living "comfortably" doesn't have jack crap to do with morals, and being poor doesn't give you free reigh to toss morals aside. I don't live comfortably - I mean, I don't have to beg for food, but I'm certainly what one would call "well off." So it's not like I'm sitting here telling him to send the games back while lounging around my mansion and having my servant girls bringing me drinks or whatnot.

If he has enough money to buy Soul Calibur and a memory card in the first place, he isn't in a position where you could justify him doing something wrong because of the financial gain. If we were talking the difference between his baby being fed or not, THEN a serious discussion on the matter could begin. But even then, it still isn't right to do something wrong to solve the problem you have.

*sigh* I didn't want to have to post back in this thread, but I'm not going to let this just slide.

Chances are, you're right about mindfield. He's spending almost $100 on games, taking the time to post on an internet message board (meaning he's got a PC, a PS2, a modem, and money to pay for it all). No arguments. I wasn't insinuating that this guy was poor and these 11 games would be what pays for his family's Thanksgiving dinner. But guess what? There are people who find themselves in situations like this that actually are hurting for cash, and then morals have a much bigger chance of flying out the window. Living comfortably is not as you tried to ascribe (obviously)... it isn't about sitting on a pile of money being waited on by servants. Fact is, to those that do not have the benefit of living comfortably, whether mindfield is or isn't (he isn't), morals most certainly go out the window sometimes for one's personal gain. That's all I was saying, and it still holds true.

"Hey look guys, a company made a legitimate screw-up, and I'm going to stick it to the man and toss morals aside! Aren't I just the coolest!"

Later...

"Aw man, people are actually bitching at me for acting like an ass. And now they might find out..."

*tear forms in the corner of his eye*

Yup... feel reeeeeeeally sorry for the guy.

While I feel a lot less sorry for him now that he knows about what MVS did and is seemingly OK with it, I still feel it's unfortunate that his good fortune (at the expense of Futureshop) was taken away unknowingly. I will maintain the end that it should have been his choice. I mean, after the reactions in this thread we could have at least given the guy (who was contemplating what he would do from the start, it seems) a chance to do the right thing on his own. But instead, people took it into their own hands and turned him in. Which, I (still) feel, is a shame.

Yeah, because flaming and STEALING are the exact same thing, moron.

People keep razing cka for this. His point was not that stealing and flaming are the same thing. MVS himself clearly understood that, but people keep bringing this up. This had to do with MVS saying he does to other's what he expects to be done to him. mindfield was acting in the wrong by keeping the games, MVS felt it his responsibility to report him. cka brought up the example of flaming people (which we all know MVS does sometimes... a lot of us do too) being a breach of one's contract with the ISP, and asked MVS if maybe he should report that to his ISP. Both actions are wrongful on the part of the commiting party, and cka was trying to illustrate a point using that idea... he was not saying flaming and stealing were the same thing.

[cka]

Yeah, because flaming and STEALING are the exact same thing, moron.

Re-read my post, and pay attention to where I explain how they're similar.

[Brisco Bold]

Okay:

Scenario 1

It's a busy day at EB. Some guy trades in a few games. He's a regular customer who takes excellent care of his games. Further, he's trading a lot of games at a peak traffic hour. Cognizant of this I forgo the thorough examination of the games typical of my routine; I maybe check one or two. I feel a jiggle in the cases and assume the games are in there. Later that night, while gutting, I discover two empty cases; guy forgot a few games at home.

Realizing his mistake, the guy returned his games a day later. Regardless of this and my sterling work history, I'm written up. 3 write-ups and I get fired. I'm lucky the guy brought the game back or something worse might have happened.


I'm a moron, I'm a fool. True.

And the customer: he just got a free game for two empty cases. Score! Capitalize. In your opinion, should the guy have kept the games, or do the right thing and bring them back?

I'm not condemning or applauding MVS's actions. I'm merely questioning the logic and morals expressed in this thread.

Edited because I'm having a bad, baaad, day...

[mollipen]

Re-read my post, and pay attention to where I explain how they're similar.

Okay, to be fair, I'll go back and re-read what you had to say, and possibly apologize for the "moron" part. If an apology is warrented.

[NoFace]

Okay:

Scenario 1

It's a busy day at EB. Some guy trades in a few games. He's a regular customer who takes excellent care of his games. Further, he's trading a lot of games at a peak traffic hour. Cognizant of this I forgo the thorough examination of the games typical of my routine; I maybe check one or two. I feel a jiggle in the cases and assume the games are in there. Later that night, while gutting, I discover two empty cases; guy forgot a few games at home.

Realizing his mistake, the guy returned his games a day later. Regardless of this and my sterling work history, I'm written up. 3 write-ups and I get fired. I'm lucky the guy brought the game back or something worse might have happened.


By some people's logic this was my doing. I'm a moron, I'm a fool.

He got a free game for two empty cases. Score! Capitalize.

So, you guys are going to tell me that I deserved to get written up for making an honest mistake?

I'm not condemning or applauding MVS's actions. I'm merely questioning the logic and morals expressed in this thread.

Well, I've done the EB thing, I've made that mistake and I've seen others make that mistake time and time again. I don't think we're questioning who's fault it is, we all know you're supposed to check each game as much as possible before accepting it for trade. But like you said, it's an honest mistake, especially when you're being slammed with customers or lots of trade-ins on a particular day.

Me personally, no, you don't deserve a write-up for that. For one thing, it's a small mistake. Two traded in games in the eyes of EB Corporate is nothing. Since they sell most of their games at 400-500% markup from what they take them back at, if they lose two games, that doesn't mean anything to them. Some games I've seen taken back are so scratched up they might as well not even be in the cases... EB can't sell those but they say fuck it and take 'em back anyway. So yea, I wouldn't write you up for that, but it's certainly possible you're working under a real hard-ass and they don't let any mistakes slide. How this situation is handled is totally up to how the higher-ups feel it should be... you can't be sure of anything.

If the problem was on the same magnitude as this Futureshop problem, i.e. eleven missing games, that's pretty serious in the company's eyes. I would have a hard time slapping someone on the wrist if I found out they messed up that badly. Honest mistake or not, that's a pretty big mistake and you don't want to see that happen again.

Note that an honest mistake does not equate to a small mistake, and thus not all honest mistakes should go without a reprimand.

[cka]

Okay, to be fair, I'll go back and re-read what you had to say, and possibly apologize for the "moron" part. If an apology is warrented.

Meh, sticks and stones really. I don't take offense to anything on the Internet.

[mollipen]

Meh, sticks and stones really. I don't take offense to anything on the Internet.

Well, plus, I call everybody names when I'm disagreeing with them, so you know... I call you an idiot, but I do so WITH LOVE.

[Diff-chan]

Yea Brisco, you do deserve to be written up. If I did that at work, I would expect to be written up too. Honest mistake or not, its what happened, you should get written up.

[Mzo]

I was once threatened with a writeup for showing a customer that we still sold new, in-box, fancy colored Dreamcast controllers at a cheaper price than the used white one he was about to purchase.

There's your EB morality.

[NoFace]

It's all about the mighty dollar.

[Diff-chan]

Mzo, you have a job to do.

Its to sell what the company tells you to sell.

When you work in retail youre a drone, plain and simple.

If they tell you to sell used Dreamcasts and you tell a customer not to sell a used Dreamcast, youre not doing your job, and I dont think the manager would be out of line in writing you up.

Thats the shitty thing about being a salesman. Its also why I was never a good employee... but I can understand the way it works.

[Mzo]

I understand too... but they messed up that time. If a NEW DC controller costs less than the ratty old USED DC controller the customer was going to buy, there's something wrong with that, and I'd feel like an ass for not pointing it out.

I AM a terrible employee, though

I never even got one of those cards they make you fill out with your monthly goals, and I never read the daily messages (E-Bee-Lines, I believe) anymore. I don't know why they keep me around.

Maybe because I pimp GMRs and spend all my EB salary on their games anyway.

[Diff-chan]

Well its easy to pimp GMRs... its a great fucking deal they got going there...

And yea sometimes EB is slow with that... I remember they dropped the price of Generals to like $34.99 and when that gray box came up I was like "Hey, you know, we got a preowned for... what the? $44.99? What the hell?" but eh I couldnt do much so he just got the new one.

But still if the company told me to sell used Generals at all cost and somebody came up with the used game without knowing of the new one I wouldve sold him the used.

[BIF!!]

While I'm not taking any sides on this, the games are now legally his and he can do whatever he pleases with the extra copies. The Federal Trade Commission's (FTC) "Mail or Telephone Order Merchandise Rule" (which does include internet transactions) spells out that in situations like this, the unordered item(s) are considered gifts and do not have to be returned, nor can the company charge him for their mistake. So return them to the company if you feel morally obligated to do so, or make a nice profit on ebay. If for some weird reason you feel like wading through legalese you can check out the FTC's website dealing with this situation at http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/.../mailorder.htm

[cka]

And there it is. PWNED spelled out on the Gubbamint web site.

And now that your 12 copies are all nice and legal, hook me up with one of them.

[bbobb]

Yeah, but that's the FTC rules... he is in Canada... it might be a better idea to check the canadian laws.

[cka]

Said earlier, Futureshop is owned by Best Buy and they're an american company, so I'd just as soon assume the law applies to them...

[bbobb]

No... canadian law would apply to orders placed, shipped and delivered to canada.

[Mzo]

GIMME THE SC2 BITCH!