EA gets OWNED!

[Agent X]

EA would be wise ot hand over a little bit of control to Microsoft, because they have shown their shocking incompetence over and over and over and over and ove rand over again.

I disagree with this, especially when it concerns X-Box Live. If EA just up and "handed control" over to Microsoft, even just a "little bit," then they effectively lose their autonomy over their online audience. While there might be a few advantages to the X-Box Live arrangement (idealistcally speaking), I feel that there are also several glaring problems that affect the developer/publishers, as well as the gamers. Here are a couple of real-world examples:

1. The Tony Hawk games. Activision wanted to put both Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4 and Tony Hawk's Underground online on the X-Box, just as they did with the PS2. Problem was that Microsoft disagreed with the concept of user-created content. Apparently, downloadable content is A-OK, even if the content already encoded on the disc and the extent of the X-Box Live "functionality" is merely to download a few bytes to unlock it. However, uploadable content is strictly taboo in Microsoft's world. Microsoft sure talks a good talk about "online community" and such, but apparently they don't feel fan contribution is part of it.

2. Sega Sports games. From what I have heard about last year's Sega Sports games, the X-Box versions always seemed to get downloadable roster updates much later than the PS2 versions. It doesn't make much sense, especially with X-Box Live being a paid service. But, as if that weren't enough, there's another problem affecting this year's games. The ability for users to set up custom online leagues and tournaments was included in the PS2 versions, but not in the X-Box versions. Why not? Could it have something to do with Microsoft wanting to have platform exclusivity on such features with their first-party XSN Sports games? You make the call!

So, now you see why EA (and apparently several other developers/publishers) really don't want to jump on the X-Box Live bandwagon...and after seeing the stunts Microsoft pulled, I don't blame them. These events might not have happened if developers/publishers were allowed to operate Internet-playable games on their own, independently of X-Box Live. I'm wholly convinced that many (perhaps the majority) of companies supporting X-Box Live are doing so only because there's no alternative online method available on the platform. You either go online the way Microsoft tells you to, or you don't go online at all.

Could you imagine the outcry if Sony tried those shenanigans? What would happen if Sony told EA that they couldn't include online leagues or tournaments for Madden NFL 2004 or other EA Sports games, just because they wanted those features exclusive on the PS2 to their own NFL GameDay 2004 and other 989 Sports games? Would that sit well with PS2 fans? Would they be chanting "989 Sports Online, baby!" or would they send the lynch mobs to Sony HQ and demand Ken Kutaragi's head on a silver platter?

I'm surprised more X-Box fans--particularly the ones that are also Sega fans--aren't at least a little incensed that Microsoft has the ability to push Sega around that much, and force them to yank those features from their games...especially considering that they are paying a yearly fee for what is purported to be a "superior" online console gaming experience.

[Brisco Bold]

I disagree with this, especially when it concerns X-Box Live. If EA just up and "handed control" over to Microsoft, even just a "little bit," then they effectively lose their autonomy over their online audience. While there might be a few advantages to the X-Box Live arrangement (idealistcally speaking), I feel that there are also several glaring problems that affect the developer/publishers, as well as the gamers. Here are a couple of real-world examples:

1. The Tony Hawk games. Activision wanted to put both Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4 and Tony Hawk's Underground online on the X-Box, just as they did with the PS2. Problem was that Microsoft disagreed with the concept of user-created content. Apparently, downloadable content is A-OK, even if the content already encoded on the disc and the extent of the X-Box Live "functionality" is merely to download a few bytes to unlock it. However, uploadable content is strictly taboo in Microsoft's world. Microsoft sure talks a good talk about "online community" and such, but apparently they don't feel fan contribution is part of it.

2. Sega Sports games. From what I have heard about last year's Sega Sports games, the X-Box versions always seemed to get downloadable roster updates much later than the PS2 versions. It doesn't make much sense, especially with X-Box Live being a paid service. But, as if that weren't enough, there's another problem affecting this year's games. The ability for users to set up custom online leagues and tournaments was included in the PS2 versions, but not in the X-Box versions. Why not? Could it have something to do with Microsoft wanting to have platform exclusivity on such features with their first-party XSN Sports games? You make the call!

So, now you see why EA (and apparently several other developers/publishers) really don't want to jump on the X-Box Live bandwagon...and after seeing the stunts Microsoft pulled, I don't blame them. These events might not have happened if developers/publishers were allowed to operate Internet-playable games on their own, independently of X-Box Live. I'm wholly convinced that many (perhaps the majority) of companies supporting X-Box Live are doing so only because there's no alternative online method available on the platform. You either go online the way Microsoft tells you to, or you don't go online at all.

Could you imagine the outcry if Sony tried those shenanigans? What would happen if Sony told EA that they couldn't include online leagues or tournaments for Madden NFL 2004 or other EA Sports games, just because they wanted those features exclusive on the PS2 to their own NFL GameDay 2004 and other 989 Sports games? Would that sit well with PS2 fans? Would they be chanting "989 Sports Online, baby!" or would they send the lynch mobs to Sony HQ and demand Ken Kutaragi's head on a silver platter?

I'm surprised more X-Box fans--particularly the ones that are also Sega fans--aren't at least a little incensed that Microsoft has the ability to push Sega around that much, and force them to yank those features from their games...especially considering that they are paying a yearly fee for what is purported to be a "superior" online console gaming experience.

Curious: where'd you get this info?

[Agent X]

Curious: where'd you get this info?

The thing with THUG was revealed in a magazine about 5-6 months ago, possibly Game Informer. I don't have the issue, but it was one of the first articles that described THUG in detail.

With the Sega Sports games, I think this article was the initial tip-off that the leagues/tourneys would only be in the PS2 version. (See second to last Q&A there.) You can also go to http://www.espnvideogames.com and click on the "PS2 Online Gaming" to see how it works, or read this FAQ (second to last question) from their site.

[Diff-chan]

Curious: where'd you get this info?

Dude, he knows everything. Im not even joking about that. Just trust me.

[Roufuss]

The thing with THUG was revealed in a magazine about 5-6 months ago, possibly Game Informer. I don't have the issue, but it was one of the first articles that described THUG in detail.

With the Sega Sports games, I think this article was the initial tip-off that the leagues/tourneys would only be in the PS2 version. (See second to last Q&A there.) You can also go to http://www.espnvideogames.com and click on the "PS2 Online Gaming" to see how it works, or read this FAQ (second to last question) from their site.

He is right, I remember it was a big deal at the time when it was found out that Xbox wouldn't have any of the face scanning or user created maps that ps2 users could get. It caused a big uproar when people were mad at Neversoft, and Neversoft had said that Microsoft wouldn't allow it.

And I wouldn't be surprised about the football thing, because Microsoft pushes XSN Sports REALLY hard.

[SonofdonCD]

http://sports.ign.com/articles/458/458530p1.html

About EA Sports, Online, and where they stand. Also mentions where they're at with X-Box Live.

[Drewbacca]

I like the Xbox Live strategy. If you're going to be EA, don't make it so that I have to have a username and password for EVERY game. It's a little bit of overkill.

Passwords and login screens are everywhere nowadays. Just to read something you want you have to read about logging. Do it once, have access to a good bounty. I don't mind paying the price of a game for that during the year.

The only problem is that I don't want to play most of Live games anyway.

p.s. Microsoft will just ruin their only virtue in the console wars above everybody else.

[Master]

Attach rate (games sold to systems sold) is MUCH higher on Xbox, more online games on Xbox, very few PS2 owners (percentage-wise) go online. I don't really have anything to say that YAWA didn't.

Lhadatt, your logic is rational, but the facts you use to get there are misleading at best.

[Mamoscott]

I like the Xbox Live strategy. If you're going to be EA, don't make it so that I have to have a username and password for EVERY game. It's a little bit of overkill.

Passwords and login screens are everywhere nowadays. Just to read something you want you have to read about logging. Do it once, have access to a good bounty. I don't mind paying the price of a game for that during the year.

The only problem is that I don't want to play most of Live games anyway.

p.s. Microsoft will just ruin their only virtue in the console wars above everybody else.

You only have to have one universal account to play EA games online, and it is saved in a separate file on your memory card, independent of any game-specific saves. Then after creating your universal account, you are free choose individual online nicknames for each game if you're so inclined. I've been playing Tiger Woods, Madden, and NCAA all under the same global EA Games account for months now. You can also change your account preferences to automatically remember your passwords, so the most trouble you have to go through to log in is clicking X one extra time.

Master, it doesn't matter what percentage of PS2 owners play online. There are still more people overall going online with the PS2 than the Xbox, and that's what matters to developers like EA, who want to reach as many people as possible (without sacrificing control over their games). There are almost 4 times as many people currently playing Socom 2 online than there are people playing Rainbow Six 3 on Xbox Live, regardless of the fact that a greater percentage of Xbox owners use Live.

I think one of the big problems with Xbox Live is that there is little advantage for big name developers and publishers to use it.

[SonofdonCD]

Master, it doesn't matter what percentage of PS2 owners play online. There are still more people overall going online with the PS2 than the Xbox, and that's what matters to developers like EA, who want to reach as many people as possible (without sacrificing control over their games). There are almost 4 times as many people currently playing Socom 2 online than there are people playing Rainbow Six 3 on Xbox Live, regardless of the fact that a greater percentage of Xbox owners use Live.

I think one of the big problems with Xbox Live is that there is little advantage for big name developers and publishers to use it.

The biggest problem with this logic is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

EA says "There's not too many people playing on other sports games on X-Box Live." Did they ever think that if they DID use X-Box Live, MORE people would also? Just like the case with Dreamcast. They have the mind share of a lot of gamers. They could bring a lot of gamers online on the X-Box, and they know it.

Yeah, it's a gamble, but it's one that is more than worth the risks. After all, what do they say: "You have to spend money to make money", right? Better to give the gamers what they want than not and force the gamers onto the competition (i.e. Sega, XSN).