Anti-Gay Marriage Constitutional Amendments?

[burgundy]

I'd rather sound like an insensitive idiot than a hypocritical bigot.

Just because you had a nice chat with Grandpa about the civil rights movement doesn't mean that a different class of Americans aren't struggling with the same thing today. Sure, there are gay extremists involved for political gain, but extremists in the civil rights movements didn't make the case for civil rights any less pressing.

You should probably bitch and moan less and attempt to justify your argument that blacks should be more equal than gays more.

[bbobb]

Actually, one of the German bishops used John's gospel to justify it. In their eyes, they did nothing wrong. While Germans already hated the jews, it took Hitler to order them to kill the jews before doing so.

You just continue to show your ignorance don't you? Anti-semitism and attacks on Jews had been growing in leaps and bounds since the late 19th century in Eastern Europe and Germany. Hitler just keyed into that and organized the attacks on a more massive scale. It's not like the day before Hitler came into power no Germans ever attacked or killed any Jews. Attacks on Jews in Europe had been going on for years, they didn't need Hitler's orders to kill them... they just needed him to organize the killing on a more massive scale.
I think you need to take a few history classes before you start spewing on about things you obviously know nothing about.

I emphasize because these are your words not mine. Get off your high-horse and know what you're talking about before you speak cause right now you sound like an insensitive idiot.

And what I'm talking about is how my grandparents' struggle for equality is being used as a damned leveraging tool to push some fucking political agenda while completely disregarding the pain, suffering and emotional baggage that came with it. I've talked at length and in depth to my parents and grandparents about the days of Jim Crow laws and all the other government sanctioned bullshit that went on in those days.

You don't know that pain, I do. So kindly shut up.

Boo fucking hoo.

So just because your parents and grandparents were discriminated against, you think it gives you the right to discriminate against another group of people?

[AstroBlue]

You don't know that pain, I do. So kindly shut up.

If you understand the pain of discrimination then you should more easily empathise with another minority being discriminated against. Otherwise, it makes YOUR discrimination worse because it shows you only care about discrimination when it's target at people you identify with and therefore you're a self-serving bigot.

Aparthied banned the marriage of two responsible adults simply because they produced different amounts of melanin, how is that different to banning the marriage of two responsible adults simply because they have the same set of chromosome 23?

You believe that everyone is equal (different but deserves equal rights) or not. Decide, or fuck off and shut up.

[Damian79]

You just continue to show your ignorance don't you? Anti-semitism and attacks on Jews had been growing in leaps and bounds since the late 19th century in Eastern Europe and Germany. Hitler just keyed into that and organized the attacks on a more massive scale. It's not like the day before Hitler came into power no Germans ever attacked or killed any Jews. Attacks on Jews in Europe had been going on for years, they didn't need Hitler's orders to kill them... they just needed him to organize the killing on a more massive scale.
I think you need to take a few history classes before you start spewing on about things you obviously know nothing about.

And your point is? I never said none of them had a real reason(in their minds) to kill jews before Hitler, I said that Hitler and the bishop gave them justification for ALL of them.

You should really look up the word "generalising".

Bad day today?

[Fe 26]

Not to agree with master of 7s or anything but the bad treatment of african americans in the past is abused in current gay politics. Yes, both deserve to have rights, the same as any other person alive, but it really feels that some groups are only using the history of slavery and the hard work of african americans to gain equality, for it's shock value.

It is wrong to use the pain of another group to get what you want. When you do that you are using it as a tool and devalueing everything that group went through.

Gay people deserve equal rights because of the logic of it, not because someone else who didn't have rights got hanged and forced into a life of slavery. One does not make the other wrong, logic makes both wrong.

[Frogacuda]

Having read the majority of your past posts concerning this topic, and being made aware of your extremely limited and downright poor knowledge of all things relegious, but particularly Christian, I find it hard to believe that you're even aware of a few arguments creationists hold to, let alone "most."

I guess that's why I've devoted so much time to the academic study of religion, then. And I've never debated Creationism with you before this thread. And I grew up religious, have alot of religious freinds and family, and have great respect for religion. And I'm a religion minor in school, where I've studied Judiasm, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Taoism, Rastafarianism, Voodoo, Santaria, and traditional African religion, and currently studying religion in Latin America. So STFU, thanks.

I'm really hoping you've just confused me for someone else.

[Jeremy]

Blacks were treated like second-class citizens during the civil rights movement, and gays and homosexuals are being treated in much the same way with this issue.

[Captain Vegetable]

I guess that's why I've devoted so much time to the academic study of religion, then. And I've never debated Creationism with you before this thread. And I grew up religious, have alot of religious freinds and family, and have great respect for religion. And I'm a religion minor in school, where I've studied Judiasm, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Taoism, Rastafarianism, Voodoo, Santaria, and traditional African religion, and currently studying religion in Latin America. So STFU, thanks.

I'm really hoping you've just confused me for someone else.

No, no confusion. It's definitely you.

Studying about relegion in a academic environment is hardly "studying relegion," though admitting your relegion minor has garnered a bit more respect from myself. And though you are correct that we've never debated on the topic of anything at all, let alone creationism, that doesn't mean I am wholely unaware of the majority of posts you've made addressing this topic. I've read them, and I've chosen not to respond to them. I am well aware of certain misconceptions you've cited, as well as a general misunderstanding of what Christianity is, and what Christians believe.

I, myself, am an ordained Reverand (I've been mentioning this one a lot recently, but it seems as though not as many people on these here forums know this as I had initially expected), and so feel confident in my ability to comment correctly on this matter. You see, even if you are a relegion minor, which again I have much respect for, you're still on the outside looking in. I, on the other hand, am inside looking around. I stand a much better chance, when the same item is given to both of us to examine, of gaining a correct insight and understanding, and subsequent teaching, on the topic, because not only am I observing it with a profound knowledge and insight into Christianity, but I am able to rationally and reasonably understand the motivations behind such beliefs, as I am a part of the Christian culture.

Keep in mind we both have our biases, as you have a particular aversion to Christianity, while I have a particular aversion to secular philosophy.

So, my initial comment stands. Compared to myown, you really do have little and poor knowledge of what it is Christianity is all about. I'm sorry if this offends you, but that's just the way it is. And I still doubt you are aware of "most" of the arguments that Christians adhere to.

Incedentally, I've studied nearly all of the relegions you have, but unlike you, I don't pretend to know as much about them as someone who devoutly practices them. I know I have much more to learn from someone of any particular faith than any given scholar or professor, and as such, I understand my information may very well be incomplete, or totally incorrect for that matter. To this end, I discuss my knowledge with members of any given faith when given the chance, totally expecting for my information to change and morph into a more correct, more clear view of their faith. You don't seem to do this, at least in so far as you've been interacting with Christians here at TNL.

[Rumpy]

Doesn't it take like an hour to become and ordained reverand? Or am I thinking of becoming a minister?

[burgundy]

Gay people deserve equal rights because of the logic of it, not because someone else who didn't have rights got hanged and forced into a life of slavery. One does not make the other wrong, logic makes both wrong.

That's a good point. But if that's what 7s was saying, something got lost in the translation.

So, my initial comment stands. Compared to myown, you really do have little and poor knowledge of what it is Christianity is all about. I'm sorry if this offends you, but that's just the way it is. And I still doubt you are aware of "most" of the arguments that Christians adhere to.

Sounds to me like you don't believe one can truly understand a religion without practicing it. If that's the case, then there's no point in arguing with you.

On average, I'd say that one who has an interest in a religion has a better reason to understand that faith. But there are plenty of people who believe completely yet understand nothing. As well as those who once believed and practiced but no longer do - it's not as if everything they learned is lost.