The Genocide in Rwanda

[g0zen]

I fail to see how George Bush relates to 911.

Then you obviously haven't done any research. Bush Senior and in fact the whole family has been in bed with the Saudi Oil magnates, the Royal Family, and members of Saudi high society (including a few of the Bin Laden family, that name ring a bell?) since day one.

Also, try to keep in mind that while Bush Senior was Vice President under Ronald Reagan, he masterminded the CREATION of al-Queda to fight off those nasty Soviets in Afghanistan.

In fact, I bet none of you even know what the 21st of March was. Do you?

Afghanistan Day!

Look it up, and then we can talk.

[NightWolve]

Sorry to bum anyone out.

Not at all. I knew of it. The WorldLink station had a documentary that dealt with the reconstruction effort. The Sudan war has been a little more of interest to me though (Some of Osama's former handiwork can be found there). It's gone on for like ~20 years and yet the world remains largely silent on it. ~1/2 million have been slaughtered reportedly and many more have fled to neighboring countries. Slavery is alive and well in the continent as well.

Anyway, I'll take a look at that special in my leisurely.

[frostwolf ex]

One thing no one has mentioned here is that these events took place a year after
Somalia, that was a big determening factor in the lack of action by the West.
the dead of 14 soldiers stopped the west from preventing the dead of a million civilians.

We have failed the world and ourselves.

I know Belgium was, we are one of the only countries that officialy apologised as a nation as well(Bill Clinton apologised on his personal behalf after he left the white house).
And screw whoever that didnt give this the attention it deserves, the West prides itself on its democratic principels right?
Then it shouldnt compare itself to those who hold themselves to lower standards as an excuse to do nothing, one should remain vigilant and show the way.

now you are going way too far with it. it was not the 14 dead that lead to our eventual pull out, it was the manner of their death, killed by warlords thugs and paraded through the streets to hordes of cheering people, the very same pople we were there to help in the first place. Speak honestly ali, if you were a leader, and you saw that when you sent your people, the ones you have been chosen to lead and protect, you saw them killed and then their deaths cheered, not by the warlord's thugs, but by the very people you put your own people into harms way to protect. can you honestly say you wouldnt say "fuck em"? if so you are either such a demagogue that you have no true feelings left, or you are lying. the fact that belgium and clinton apologised for their inaction does not retroactively bring back a single life cost by said inactuion, it merely is a very public show of "remorse" which pleases a segment of the population that wants to be feel exonerated for their inaction, it dosent change a single thing, its just more moral masturbation.

as night mentioned, sudan has had similar problems, nigeria currently has the muslim majority persecuting the christian minority. tick em off, africa could use many interventions now if any country wants to show the inituative to put some men on the line. the leaders didnt act because they would be hard pressed to find people anywhere who would be willing to put their asses on the line and protect the values they pay lip service to in the first place, there would be demonstrations against intervention, and silly rationalizations against the intervention, but the truth is, people dont want to be put at risk of dying for a bunch of strangers, period.

[Damian79]

Speak honestly ali, if you were a leader, and you saw that when you sent your people, the ones you have been chosen to lead and protect, you saw them killed and then their deaths cheered, not by the warlord's thugs, but by the very people you put your own people into harms way to protect. can you honestly say you wouldnt say "fuck em"?

So why haven't you left Iraq?

[frostwolf ex]

hey damien, remember how this thread was about rwana and there are already about 50 fucking ones on iraq, i realise you have nothing at all to say on the subject, but maybe you could make some rwanda related comment or fuck off and bump one of those threads.?

but actually lets run with this since you cant stay on topic it has been said that the reaction to somalia was one of the things that emboldened the terrorists, when we showed that we will haul ass when we start taking some casualties. now if you paid attention you would know that in somalia we were going there as peacekeepers and the radical shift from peace keepers to hunting some warlord made people question our combat role, and lent credence to the voices of those who said fuck it, lets leave this area to kill themselves off. Iraq, was a combat mission and has remained one, so casualties are more accepable in theory since they were expected(and also, some poepl dont let the actiosn of a small population determine policy, should all us domestic policy be based on compton?). also, note that we are talking about how somalia theroeticaly determined our reaction to rwanda, so the situation dosent apply within the same engagement, but rather to a subsequent conflict arising in a similar aea. unless there is a similar military situation developing elsewhere in the islamic world for us to respond to its moot point, but i will agree if any other arabic state asks us for help immedietly following iraq, i agree, we should tell them to fuck themselves, so i guess there are some lessons learned. Also consider there are some differences, since neither tribe in rwanda was attacking such diverse locations as spain, france(2 series of bombs on the rails and today's scare), and bali, they did have less priority than the middle east, who seem to desire to bomb all non muslim countries out of exisetence.

[Damian79]

Yes, it was completely unrelated to rwanda, I am very sorry. I am sorry for bringing it up in this topic.

EDIT: Sorry, I just read your first sentence and replied thinking that there would be no point reading the rest.

But I still, don't see how the situation is different. So why exactly do you think you went to war with Iraq?

[frostwolf ex]

Yes, it was completely unrelated to rwanda, I am very sorry. I am sorry for bringing it up in this topic.

?

sincerity always comes further with roll-eyes. but repeat the question in an appropriate thread and i will respond, i would realy like answers to my questions of ali, not more bickering on a topic we are already doing in multiple threads.

though the response will likely not be tonight, swg calls soon and i have had my bs quotient for the night, but i will get to it tommorow night.

[Gohron]

No moreso than the Chinese treatment of the Tibetans. Funny isn't it? China has committed countless atrocities (they redefine Amnesity International's standards of defining crimes against humanity on a continual basis), proudly possess a stockpile of nuclear arms (far more numerous and sophisticated ones than North Korea will ever have), and are ruled by a totalitarian regime. Yet they aren't part of the "Axis of Evil?" The U.S.'s invasion may have had a altruistic benefit, but it was far from being the reason for it.

China is also the most powerful military nation in the world next to the US. I'm not sure if we want to re-instate the draft and give the lives of a few thousand US soldiers yet. Their nuclear weapons are also defined under international law and they never used any WMD. Iraq possibly used them on US soldiers during the first Persian Gulf and also used them on the Kurds and other people. Iraq has violated international law many times, this war was way overdue.

[Damian79]

sincerity always comes further with roll-eyes. but repeat the question in an appropriate thread and i will respond, i would realy like answers to my questions of ali, not more bickering on a topic we are already doing in multiple threads.

I was pointing out how you were the one who brought it up in the first place.

[Almaci]

Yes I would, I never mentioned the fact that Belgium apologised untill someone else mentioned Belgium as i dont care for jingoistic bullshit, thats when I mentioned Clinton as well not BEFORE others brought up Belgium.

Furthermore YOU are the one bringing lies and misinformation to this thread and when called upon it ignore it completely(the palace inspections).

The mess africa is in is one that has been historically created by the US and Europe so it is our duty to make amends and do whatever we can to rectify it.
the atrocities that happen there today happen becouse that is the legacy we have left the continent with.