What are you?

[g0zen]

The far-left's train of thought is laughable too but you follow that.

It's really a matter of how you percieve the world.

I would agree with you if it weren't for the fact that the right's position in this is stimulated solely because of a religious modus operandi.

[Gohron]

You probably know that I am a religious person however most of my political and ideological views have nothing to do with religion, I try to figure things out on a more logical manner and that does include my views on religion as well. If you're a Conservative you cannot use religious context to defend your position because it is useless on people who are not religious.

[Mman]

Its a valid question but an impossible one to answer definitively because, as AstroBlue and I have said before, its more of a question of ideology than anything else.

Oh, agreed.

[AstroBlue]

birthing cycle

Bwhahaha! How cute.

But seriously, if you're willing to kill a mother simply because she got knocked, up, why not take this to its ultima thule:

And, this has been said before, if abortion is murder, than is preventable miscarriage (written on the death certificate and known in medical fields as spontaneous abortion) manslaughter?

Quoted for emPHAsis.

[Nic0]

life begins at conception and birth control instantly becomes murder by the same logic as stem cell research and abortion

You pretty much hit the nail on the head...I do agree with those things. However, that does not make my train of thought laughable. I could say the same about yours. We hold different opinions and we both think we're right. You're just as stubborn as I am.

Its a valid question but an impossible one to answer definitively because, as AstroBlue and I have said before, its more of a question of ideology than anything else.

Yeah that's a good point. We'll never reach a conclusion because we're arguing from different definitions and different idealogy. Just as I will never accept you're definition of it, chances are you won't accept mine.

Bwhahaha! How cute.

But seriously, if you're willing to kill a mother simply because she got knocked, up, why not take this to its ultima thule:



Quoted for emPHAsis.

when did I mention killing the mother?

and this thing about miscarriage, are you saying that in order to prevent miscarrage (which from my understanding, which is limited, is a child that just dies due to complications) you're just going to abort the child?

Abortion has several meanings, what we've been arguing about is induced abortion. The meaning of abortions in terms of miscarrage (and the abortion you mentioned in the quote) is "The premature expulsion of a nonviable fetus from the uterus; a miscarriage".

[AstroBlue]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head...I do agree with those things. However, that does not make my train of thought laughable. I could say the same about yours. We hold different opinions and we both think we're right. You're just as stubborn as I am.

Yeah that's a good point. We'll never reach a conclusion because we're arguing from different definitions and different idealogy. Just as I will never accept you're definition of it, chances are you won't accept mine.

No, I respect and accept your opinion, and believe I could be wrong.

when did I mention killing the mother?

You didn't, but Gohron said that if abortion was the only case of saving a mothers life, he would let her die and the child survive.

and this thing about miscarriage, are you saying that in order to prevent miscarrage (which from my understanding, which is limited, is a child that just dies due to complications) you're just going to abort the child?

Abortion has several meanings, what we've been arguing about is induced abortion. The meaning of abortions in terms of miscarrage (and the abortion you mentioned in the quote) is "The premature expulsion of a nonviable fetus from the uterus; a miscarriage".

No... my point kind of flew over your head. What I was saying is that if you equate induced abortion with murder, then you should also equate preventable spontaneous abortions with manslaugter.

if rusty coat hanger = gun

then

being too fat = running someone over when drunk

[Gohron]

You didn't, but Gohron said that if abortion was the only case of saving a mothers life, he would let her die and the child survive.

It's a tough thing to make a desicion on but the way I look at, if you aborted the child to save the mothers life you would be, in a way, murdering to save a life. If and when I get married and my wife is put in a situation like that I would probably leave the desicion up to her ultimately (and would really have no choice) but I would put her in the way I think of as the right direction, it would kill me inside but it's my perception of how things like that should be dealt with.


Maybe it's just me, I really don't understand other peoples fear of death because I virtually have none. If I get back into the USMC and a grenade came into the bunker or area I was in and it was going to kill some other Marines or American personal I would say now that I would definatly jump on it or would give my life in another situation that was alike. I've been in several situations where I thought I was about to die and I felt startled and my mind was blown about what was going to happen to me but I really wasn't scared.

Situations as you mentioned are very difficult to make a desicion on but I have my beliefs and I stand firm by them.

[AstroBlue]

It's a tough thing to make a desicion on but the way I look at, if you aborted the child to save the mothers life you would be, in a way, murdering to save a life.

Letting someone die that you could save is equated with murder within medical ethics, that is unless of course they have religious beliefs (such as Christian Science) in which such care is not wanted. So either way you're murdering one life to save another.

That's why it's a litmus test.

Your answer is based on whether you believe "established life" is more important than "potential life". That is the only rational pivot.

It's not lost on me that only males have been debating abortion in this topic.

[Gohron]

Letting someone die that you could save is equated with murder within medical ethics, that is unless of course they have religious beliefs (such as Christian Science) in which such care is not wanted. So either way you're murdering one life to save another.

I certainly don't consider it murder to save another life as under the current laws in the US the desicion is ultimately up to the women carrying the baby. I may consider it killing a person to save the life of another but I do not equate killing and murder as the same thing. In a war-like situation you may have to kill people, either to save your life or the life of the other people on your side, would I consider that murder? Certainly not.

People die, that's not to say that I think murdering people is not wrong but I do not equate aborting a baby to save the life of the person carrying it murder. It's a very very tight ethical question, if it was up to me I would outlaw abortion but in such instances as you mentioned I would probably still leave the ultimate desicion up to the person carrying the baby.

EDIT: My original statement said "That's not to say that I think murdering people is wrong" when I meant to say "That's not to say that I think murdering people is not wrong." Basically I am saying that murdering people is wrong in case you took my typo the way it was said.

[AstroBlue]

Maybe it's just me, I really don't understand other peoples fear of death because I virtually have none.

So you believe everybody should be given the chance to not be afraid to die, and then die?