Xbox Next pretty much confirmed for 2005 release

[Clash!]

Yeah, but you used to NOT be able to do any of that with a console. PC games are losing their edge over consoles, and the next generation will take a bigger chunk.

[Roufuss]

Yeah, but you used to NOT be able to do any of that with a console. PC games are losing their edge over consoles, and the next generation will take a bigger chunk.

Do you even own a decent PC capable of playing today's games on high settings, or are you just talking out your ass?

[toxic]

The graphical difference between consoles games to PC games like 5 years ago was MUCh greater than it is now. And my Point is that yes PC games still have online play and expantions, but thats no longer their exclusive feature now that you can do that with Xbox.

If you are saying console on-line play = PC online play, you are high.

The "rubberbanding" of PC v Consoles has been going on for 2 decades now. Consoles catch up to PC's (in graphics and performance) .. then PC's pull away. Then the cycle continues with the next generation.

[Clash!]

I am saying that PC games are losing what they once held as exclusive features, I am not saying that Xbox is knocking them out of the park in every aspect. And that with that fact and the next generation of systems the difference is only going to get smaller. And with these facts some people may not want to bother with having to deal with their PC to be able to play a FPS over the internet when they can do it on their Xbox.

[toxic]

And with these facts some people may not want to bother with having to deal with their PC to be able to play a FPS over the internet when they can do it on their Xbox.

Unless you want to play with a KBAM on some sort of lap-table ... I can't see this happening. FPS and PC's go together like PB&J ... thats why all the best ones are released on it first.


So, basically ... for consoles to be the ultimate gaming machines .. they need to be MORE like PC's -- Easier (cheaper) internet access, Large Storage units, and a KBAM.

So, a nerfed PC with limited upgradability? Sounds great! Sign me up!

[Cowutopia]

Consoles don't really have a happening mod community yet/at all, bringing us games like DoD and CS etc... Computers will always be the kings of indie game development, and they'll get first distribution of free stuff over the net.

Shit you just said that didn't you Roufuss.

[jarrod]

When the Xbox can match the graphical quality of my Radeon X800 Pro, then we'll see.

But I doubt even Xenon will be able to do that.

You'll be surprised... if the leaked specs are indeed true, those Elder Scrolls 4 shots would be extremely low end for what's possible. The jump this generation is bigger than most are expecting technology wise.

The "rubberbanding" of PC v Consoles has been going on for 2 decades now. Consoles catch up to PC's (in graphics and performance) .. then PC's pull away. Then the cycle continues with the next generation.

Again, visuals will begin to plateau with Xenon. Hardware won't be holding back developers anymore, resources and budgets will.

Besides, said "rubberbanding" is declining too. Only now in 2004 are we seeing PC software that clearly supercedes what's possible on 3+ year old consoles, meaning about a year where PC software's in the limelight (before Xenon)... that window will be even shorter next generation if it happens at all.

Consoles don't really have a happening mod community yet/at all, bringing us games like DoD and CS etc... Computers will always be the kings of indie game development, and they'll get first distribution of free stuff over the net.

What about Net Yarouze? Xai/Devil Dice was a fan game that made it big on PS1/2. Even WonderSwan had the WonderWitch fan dev suite.

Hopefully Microsoft offers something similar with Xenon. There's already a bit of an Xbox modding community working on various emulators, media applications and nude hacks for DOA games.

Unless you want to play with a KBAM on some sort of lap-table ... I can't see this happening. FPS and PC's go together like PB&J ... thats why all the best ones are released on it first.

So, basically ... for consoles to be the ultimate gaming machines .. they need to be MORE like PC's -- Easier (cheaper) internet access, Large Storage units, and a KBAM.

Xenon will use USB2.0 standard control outputs. If fact Xenon & PC under XNA/Longhorn will be unified in terms of control input.

Sony and Nintendo are pushing free network alternatives in their machines. And all three manufacturers are including all needed technology free of charge in their primary platforms (PStwo, PSP, DS, Xbox, Xenon, etc),

Everyone's looking towards large storage solutions too. MemoryStick for PSP, optional HDD or premium unit for Xenon, likely similar solutions for PS3 & Revolution.

I really don't see the conflicts... consoles are getting more like PCs.

[toxic]

I really don't see the conflicts... consoles are getting more like PCs.

So, instead of eating steak ... I should be eating something that's SORT OF like steak?

Again, visuals will begin to plateau with Xenon. Hardware won't be holding back developers anymore, resources and budgets will.

If you can explain to me how a CPU and a GPU that uses the same 256mb of RAM is not a limiting factor on this machine, then I have something new to learn.


I have been through about a dozen console releases now ... and they all sound great on paper a year before release ... then they are released and get slapped around by reality. Just because you have a great whizbang machine, doesn't ensure it will get properly used (see: Atari Jaguar, Sega Saturn). All this same sort of hype I see you saying, I have seen before ... the lingo has just changed. The Xenon is just a new angle on an old concept.


People point out the "low cost" aspect of consoles ... but they neglect to mention that many users have to REPLACE them because of defective drives (X-box) or shoddy cd/dvd mechanisms (PS). PC's can fall prey to this also ... but if a HD/CD company did this to thousands of users .. they wouldn't be around very long.

[Saint of Killers]

Visuals are going to plateau... hardware won't be the limiting factor, development resources will.

This is not good for the console industry. Once visuals have plateaud there will be no need to upgrade your system to play games. Practically everyone has a PC. If everyone can play the newest games on their PCs without upgrading, then the need for consoles dissapears.

[jarrod]

So, instead of eating steak ... I should be eating something that's SORT OF like steak?

It's better than starving.

If you can explain to me how a CPU and a GPU that uses the same 256mb of RAM is not a limiting factor on this machine, then I have something new to learn.

Well, 256MB is the absolute lowest potential figure... 512MB is more likely actually.

And like I've said previously, the major limit with the new generation of consoles will be chiefly budgeting. You'll have to hire enough skilled modelers and programmers to really take advantage this vast processing. Budgets will go up (as they do every generation) but every game can't be a 200 million dollar investment, there's going to be a cut off point usually. Games are going to rival films in terms of complexity and resource demands.

I have been through about a dozen console releases now ... and they all sound great on paper a year before release ... then they are released and get slapped around by reality. Just because you have a great whizbang machine, doesn't ensure it will get properly used (see: Atari Jaguar, Sega Saturn). All this same sort of hype I see you saying, I have seen before ... the lingo has just changed. The Xenon is just a new angle on an old concept.

To an extent, but neither Saturn or Jaguar were very well designed machines, nor really top of the line for their time. Xenon is going to be extremely powerful, extremely efficient and extremely well supported. It's going to be a shock, like Dreamcast was in 1998 but moreso.

This is not good for the console industry. Once visuals have plateaud there will be no need to upgrade your system to play games. Practically everyone has a PC. If everyone can play the newest games on their PCs without upgrading, then the need for consoles dissapears.

Consoles will be where software support goes though, people will still buy them. In fact set top boxes will likely replace PCs as the multimedia entertainment center in the next decade (relegating PCs back to the more utilitarian focus they held in the 1980s)... why do you think Microsoft entered this market in the first place?

[Diff-chan]

LOL

POTY

Jeremy can be a real vicious bastard when he wants to be.

[BRAD73]

I read in the Nov. Game Informer today that the black and white buttons on the Xenon controller we're being replaced with 2 more triggers on top of the controller similar to the PS2 controller. So it looks like you'll have the original triggers and the two extras on an (S) style controller. I'm sure this will take a little getting use to but I think in the long run It'll be better. Looks like bad news for those who like the big controllers, Microsoft hasn't said anything about the continued production of those. They also stated that Backwards Compatability is still not out of the question with the new processors . It would be really cool to be able to play 1st Gen. Xbox games live (Chaos Theory, Halo 2, DOA, and PT) with friends from time to time along with Xenon games. I'm dreaming because this will probably never happen.

[Giltch]

Xenon...I'm sorry, but when I first read that name in GI, I laughed my ass off. I thought it was a joke or something. Almost as bad as the GameCube's project name - the Dolphin. I was sure they would call it NeXtBox or something with the word Next in it.

[Roufuss]

It's just code names, like how the DC was called Katana or some stupid bullshit before it was released.

They'll change it later on down the line when the system is done.

[Giltch]

Good, good. I'm hoping the Revolution will take a hike, too.

[stormy]

Good, good. I'm hoping the Revolution will take a hike, too.

I hope you follow it.

[SpoDaddy]

Hahaha nice zinger Stormy

I think this whole PC vs. Console debate is missing the point: PC gamers and console gamers are different animals. Forgetting that is what's going to end up killing Microsoft with Xenon. Console gamers are GLAD there aren't patches and mods everywhere for every game, console gamers want to buy a bug free game, take it home, put in the disc hit power and PLAY. No need to worry about upgrading the hardware, getting new drivers, tweaking the settings to get a game to work, etc. Console gamers don't care about reading their email on their videogame machine.

PC gamers are all about complex control schemes, building uber gaming PC's and bragging about what their hardware can push, playing with mods, dedicating themselves to a certain game and playing it 8 hours a day for months, it's a totally different breed of gamer.

PC gamers see console gamers as casual gamers, console gamers see PC gamers as people that have no lives and need to dominate others when playing a videogame. Xbox has taken it as far as I think it can go, with Xbox live. Some console gamers refuse to pay to play games online, some think it's great to be able to play their console games online. The majority of gamers have NO interest in merging their consoles and PC's into one machine. Console gamers don't want to worry about all the complexities PC's bring and PC gamers don't want to have their PC's stuck in "non-upgradeable" mode for any length of time.

That Microsoft hasn't already shouted from the rooftops that Xenon will be backwards compatible with Xbox just goes to show they don't know what they're doing, if their goal is to keep and win market share in the console market.

[epmode]

lol.

[LOL]

PC gamers and console gamers are different animals.

Just about everyone from TNL that regularly plays Halo 2 on Live is also playing Half-Life 2 and World of Warcraft online with their PCs.

That doesn't necessarily prove anything. I'm just saying you're LOL.

[Roufuss]

Hahaha nice zinger Stormy

I think this whole PC vs. Console debate is missing the point: PC gamers and console gamers are different animals. Forgetting that is what's going to end up killing Microsoft with Xenon. Console gamers are GLAD there aren't patches and mods everywhere for every game, console gamers want to buy a bug free game, take it home, put in the disc hit power and PLAY. No need to worry about upgrading the hardware, getting new drivers, tweaking the settings to get a game to work, etc. Console gamers don't care about reading their email on their videogame machine.

PC gamers are all about complex control schemes, building uber gaming PC's and bragging about what their hardware can push, playing with mods, dedicating themselves to a certain game and playing it 8 hours a day for months, it's a totally different breed of gamer.

PC gamers see console gamers as casual gamers, console gamers see PC gamers as people that have no lives and need to dominate others when playing a videogame. Xbox has taken it as far as I think it can go, with Xbox live. Some console gamers refuse to pay to play games online, some think it's great to be able to play their console games online. The majority of gamers have NO interest in merging their consoles and PC's into one machine. Console gamers don't want to worry about all the complexities PC's bring and PC gamers don't want to have their PC's stuck in "non-upgradeable" mode for any length of time.

That Microsoft hasn't already shouted from the rooftops that Xenon will be backwards compatible with Xbox just goes to show they don't know what they're doing, if their goal is to keep and win market share in the console market.

Every PC gamer I know has at least one console system, so I really don't get where you're going with all of this. This is by far, the dumbest, most cliched thing I've ever read at TNL, and that's including all of Jeremy's posts.

Go back to just being a Gamecube fanboy, because you're as out of touch with everything as Nintendo is.