Old Money

[Stone]

I want to make it so that none of my descendents ever have to work again.

IE, my children, my childrens children, my childrens childrens children, I want to have a fortune large enough that everyone who will ever come even partially from my mighty loins will be able to live off of a trust fund, instead of working. Their trust funds will be generated off of the interest compounding off of my initial investments.

Is that a noble goal?

Also, how much money would it take to create that sort of perpetual fortune, to guarantee that no one who descends from mr will ever have to work again?

Let's make a couple of assumptions. You can average about 5% return on investment after inflation (this is high but not exactly unreasonable, I think). You will have 2 kids at age 30, and they will have 2 more kids when they turn 30. You lock up your fortune in a country with no death tax, that has a bulletproof trust fund program that will dole out your money exactly the way you want it to.

We will also say that a person needs about $250k a year in income to be able to do just about anything they want to do.

This means that you need an amount of money, returning 5% a year, that can provide you with $250k a year in investment income, and can also grow large enough so that in 30 years, it has essentially tripled in size - become large enough to support you, your first kid, and your second kid, giving each $250k a year down the line.

How much is that? I calculate about $20 million at year 0. 1.25% of the 5% interest is deducted every year to give you your $250k income. The other 3.75% interest is compounded every year. Within 30 years, that 3.75% interest will have tripled your $20 million, creating $60 million.

When you hit 60 years old, that $60 million in your bank account is enough to split between you, your first kid, and your second kid - starting the cycle all over again.

What happens when you die when you hit age 90? Your share of the fortune gets donated somewhere - to a school, to a library, whatever. (Remember, this happens every generation, once, when you die, but then twice, when your kids die, four times, when your grandchildren die - think about the sheer amount of endowed wealth that would be going to charity in the future because of you.)

----

What incredible power. Your $20 million has essentially freed everyone you will ever have any part in creating from ever being forced to work again, AND has created an ever-replicating source of charity for the rest of the world. Fucking awesome, I say. Capitalism is the greatest thing ever.

[Master]

That is the stupidest thing I have ever fucking heard.

That may be the least noble goal in the history of goals.

Eat the rich. All the people that I have ever met that come from old money are the snottiest, most racist, least tolerable people on the planet. Watch the documentary "Rich Kids" on HBO and you'll see what I mean.

Your goal is greed for a purpose that benefits nobody. Your kids will become bored with life and rebel against you, probably getting hard drug habits in the process. There is no joy in being filthy rich, especially if you didn't earn it. Please don't have kids if you think you will be doing them a favor.

Bill Gates is leaving his children enough money to pay for college and to start a small business if they so pleased. Nothing more. To be able to pay for a child's education so they can have the same opportunities for self-improvement and stability. That is a noble goal. Making them spoiled isn't noble.

[haohmaru]

Your 5% rate of return is being adjusted for inflation (let's say 2%, thereby bringing your return to an already optimistic 7%) but you're completely forgetting about income taxes (let's say 33% - 7 + 33% = ~10% rate of return) which brings you to an unreasonable "risk free" return of 10%.

That being said, the age old adage that "it takes money to make money" is never more true than it is today. I'm fortunate enough that I bought a business that can make note payments for the next 10 years and still have enough left over to pay me a decent salary, but many MANY businesses that are for sale these days are at prices that are barely enough to pay a note on the place. The truth is that you should be able to pay for the business in cash and have the business on property you own as well as having it being a profitable business in order to get anywhere quickly. That requires, you guessed it, capital.

If I had 1,000,000.00 at my disposal, I think it would be less than challenging to make that turn over, quickly, into an excellent income and future wealth. The trick is getting there to begin with.

That is the stupidest thing I have ever fucking heard.

The may be the least noble goal in the history of goals.

No, the above is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Who gives a shit about a "noble goal", whatever the hell that is, when you can meander through life securely without having to worry about the future? I'd take that in a second, *especially* if it was achieving a goal that I set out to.

After your edit, I agree that leaving your kids everything to do nothing isn't the right thing to do. If they want it, they should earn it, just like you.

[Master]

Stone, your kids will be the friggin' Osbournes.

[Gohron]

If I was the richest man on Earth I would not put my children through college, I would not buy them cars or pay for their car insurance, when they made 18 years of age I might give them some support if they were going to college, say helping them feed themselves and whatnot but the payments would be all on them.

My dad has the oppurtunity to provide me with more then he does but he doesn't give me anything and I think it's a good thing. I'm 18 years old and I no longer depend on anyone but myself, nobody buys my food, my items of luxury, my clothes. Nobody provides me with health insurance even though they can (I've been uninsured since July 15th and will be insured once my probationary period ends at work) and it's helped me to learn to fend for myself and never depend on anyone. I pay my own rent, my own bills, etc.

Making sure your kids never have to work is not a good thing for them, fighting long and hard for independant support builds a lot of character and makes them into much better individuals. Making your kids believe that life is easy and they never have to worry about anything is not the way to do things I think.

[Master]

No, the above is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Who gives a shit about a "noble goal", whatever the hell that is, when you can meander through life securely without having to worry about the future? I'd take that in a second, *especially* if it was achieving a goal that I set out to.

There is a difference between "comfortable" and making sure nobody has to ever work again in your family line. That is lame. To get rich you should have to earn it with whatever advantages your parents worked for. Man, I hate old money. Being rich is fine with me, as long as you earned it.

And Stone was the one who asked about if it was a Noble goal. Read more carefully.

[haohmaru]

There is a difference between "comfortable" and making sure nobody has to ever work again in your family line. That is lame. To get rich you should have to earn it with whatever advantages your parents worked for. Man, I hate old money. Being rich is fine with me, as long as you earned it.

And Stone was the one who asked about if it was a Noble goal. Read more carefully.

Yeah, I missed his first sentence. In any case, there's nothing wrong with trying to succeed, there is something wrong with impeding the success of those that follow you.

[Master]

Yeah, I missed his first sentence. In any case, there's nothing wrong with trying to succeed, there is something wrong with impeding the success of those that follow you.

I am sucessful and self-made, as I assume you are also. Not having to worry about where your next meal will come from, whether you will be able to take care of your kids if they get sick, whether you will be able to retire, whether your kids get an education, those are the things that matter. Not that your family line deserves something for being born. It is elitist and sickening.

What are you teaching your kids by telling them all they have to do in life is nothing? What are you teaching them? Certainly nothing you learned by making the money yourself. If I had 100 million dollars, I'd pay for my kids college and donate the rest to charity when I died. There is a point at which you are just hoarding.

[Stone]

Hahah, here we go.

Well, first, I think if you moved all of the money to a country with no income tax, you'd only have to deal with finding a 7% return which doesn't sound entirely improbable.

You may have seen a lot of rich kids who were spoiled and worthless - I went to school with a couple of guys whose parents had way more money than I'm talking about. Both of them worked very hard, despite their knowing they would probably have more than enough money to not need to ever work again if they chose to do so.

How many people can choose to be painters, or poets, or teachers, without knowing that they are in someway sacrificing their family's financial future?

What if you want to teach underprivileged children, and buy your daughter a pony when she turns 9? How do you do that? Well, you might be able to do that if you had a parent like me. I would like my kids to be able to make that choice. No, I don't want them to be spoiled brats, but kids can grow up fucked up and spoiled whether they've got money or not - that's a function of whether their parents were any good at being parents, not whether they grew up with money. Money doesn't corrupt kids, bad parenting corrupts kids.

[Master]

A fucking Pony? Who needs a fucking Pony? You are making a point with THAT? Are you for fucking real?