Metal Gear Solid 4

[Johnny Undaunted]

Are we really supposed to believe that the (event) of Shadow Moses (was a) simulation from the start for Snake to test the S3 program?

What makes you think the Shadow Moses incident was a simulation too? There was nothing in MGS2 to indicate that was the case. Snake was on a real mission to neutralize Liquid and the Sons of Big Boss and was given orders by the real Campbell (even if he was being manipulated from behind the scenes), unlike the Big Shell incident, in which Raiden was working for a fake FOXHOUND and taking orders from a computer.

[Zerohero]

Well at least it's in good hands if it does go on. I think they should wait a while before they make another. Then make a big intrance like the PSX MGS did.

Sucks, I havet had time to finish MGS3 yet. But I know when I do I'll enjoy it .

[Will]

The Patriots apparently do exist if you've played MGS3. If you need me to elaberatore more I will do so through spoiler tags.

Yeah I know, I played through all of MGS3. They do indeed exist and they went by another name before changing it to the Patriots but I'm not sure how, going by Otacon's conversation with Snake at the end of MGS2, the 12 on the list G.W. stored don't exist.

I think it's either misleading data and Patriots were able to cover themselves up or there's something else going on with the 12 head honcho Patriots.

What makes you think the Shadow Moses incident was a simulation too? There was nothing in MGS2 to indicate that was the case. Snake was on a real mission to neutralize Liquid and the Sons of Big Boss and was given orders by the real Campbell (even if he was being manipulated from behind the scenes), unlike the Big Shell incident, in which Raiden was working for a fake FOXHOUND and taking orders from a computer.

I'm not really saying that it was a fake simulation, it really did happen and it was a real threat but the A.I. came off as if it was part of the outside guiding forces behind Shadow Moses.

I wish I had the script for the G.W. conversation with Raiden and think I may have interpreted it wrong but after the A.I. went haywire and kept talking to Raiden, it made references to Shadow Moses as being a staged part of a grander scenario with Big Shell in turn simulating what happened in MGS. It also said that Ocelot's definition of S3 wasn't "Solid Snake Simulation" but something else in the form of soldier mind control/manipulation.

But then again I could be wrong and taken it the wrong way and the A.I. could have actually been over-analyzing the events that happened during the course of MGS-MGS2 to complete the S3 program.

So far from what I understand and what makes the most sense out of the ties from MGS and MGS2 is that ex-Patriot and President at the time Solidus Snake was one of the big factors behind MGS (all taken from Ocelot's ending conversation at the end of MGS with the President) along with Liquid Snake who didn't know that Solidus set it up.

I also understand that Revolver Ocelot double crossed Solidus and was a sleeper Patriot within the Dead Cell gang until the unforseen Liquid effects of his arm came to pass (as stupid as it may seem).

[Jetman]

(as stupid as it may seem).

And that about sums up that whole thing.

[Will]

And that about sums up that whole thing.

What a copout answer

Anyway am I right about Ocelot being a Patriot and was the crazy A.I. just that? Crazy?

[Jetman]

What a copout answer

Anyway am I right about Ocelot being a Patriot and was the crazy A.I. just that? Crazy?

Who knows,man.

I'm going to say 'yes' on Ocelot being a Patriot, and my Magic 8 Ball says 'Most Likely' followed by 'Ask Again Later' on the ridiculous A.I. issue.

[Will]

Fair enough.

[Johnny Undaunted]

I'm not really saying that it was a fake simulation, it really did happen and it was a real threat but the A.I. came off as if it was part of the outside guiding forces behind Shadow Moses.

I wish I had the script for the G.W. conversation with Raiden and think I may have interpreted it wrong but after the A.I. went haywire and kept talking to Raiden, it made references to Shadow Moses as being a staged part of a grander scenario with Big Shell in turn simulating what happened in MGS. It also said that Ocelot's definition of S3 wasn't "Solid Snake Simulation" but something else in the form of soldier mind control/manipulation.

But then again I could be wrong and taken it the wrong way and the A.I. could have actually been over-analyzing the events that happened during the course of MGS-MGS2 to complete the S3 program.

So far from what I understand and what makes the most sense out of the ties from MGS and MGS2 is that ex-Patriot and President at the time Solidus Snake was one of the big factors behind MGS (all taken from Ocelot's ending conversation at the end of MGS with the President) along with Liquid Snake who didn't know that Solidus set it up.

I also understand that Revolver Ocelot double crossed Solidus and was a sleeper Patriot within the Dead Cell gang until the unforseen Liquid effects of his arm came to pass (as stupid as it may seem).

You might want to read the following for an explanation (if somewhat pretentious) of the MGS2 ending, along with the transcript of the final CODEC call.
http://www.junkerhq.net/MGS2/index.html

[Chux]

Very, very interesting read.

[Johnny Undaunted]

It's official!
http://ps2.ign.com/articles/593/593190p1.html

Seems like Alen Smithee has been hired as director. I wonder if that means George Spelvin will take over as Snake.