Would you like to know the benefits of being a Christian?

[Fe 26]

Yes, I was.

Raised Methodist if that was your next question. Sunday school, bible camp, the works. It just didn't take. By sixteen I had 'renounced' God.

Well then, I don't think you are being honest with us. Doesn't sound like you were raised in the envirement you claim.

[g0zen]

Many aspects of human existence are dependent on facts/figures/hard stuff (physics, chem, bio). Many involve an element of...mystery (for lack of a better term) including music, the arts and love.

Thank goodness the sum of our existence cannot be reduced to a mere collection of facts.

Not necessarily, it is only that we haven't discovered everything yet. That is primarily why I prefer science over religion, it is always expanding always under revision to refine old theories and laws. There is no real absolute like there is in religion.

Well then, I don't think you are being honest with us. Doesn't sound like you were raised in the envirement you claim.

No, just because I was in a family that went to Church and did all the social functions that went along with it doesn't mean they were 'true believers'. It was always more about the social occasion than any sort of spirituality.

My 'rational' background comes mostly from my father who became an engineer when I was young.

[Jesus Christ]

In which case...what's the point?

W/o faith, religion isn't any different from science.

One of the interesting things about faith as a concept (and I"m saying all of this in an academic sense - this is true of all religions) is that it requires the supplicant to rest on the power of their particular deity to be saved/rescued/whatever. This validates/affirms the power/necessity of the deity.

If there were just a couple of facts that could be pointed out to unbelievers and *voila* they suddenly believed...well, that sort of takes the deity out of the equation. The once-unbelieving believer could always claim, "Hey, Deity, lucky for you I'm so smart and decided to believe in you."

Many aspects of human existence are dependent on facts/figures/hard stuff (physics, chem, bio). Many involve an element of...mystery (for lack of a better term) including music, the arts and love. I used to buy into the facts/figures - ALONE style. Until I took a Shakespeare class that really opened my mind to the (intricate) vagaries of life.

Thank goodness the sum of our existence cannot be reduced to a mere collection of facts.

Shit dude, do you listen to emo too?

IM THE ENIGMA! NO ONE UNDERSTANDS ME!

[Fe 26]

No, just because I was in a family that went to Church and did all the social functions that went along with it doesn't mean they were 'true believers'. It was always more about the social occasion than any sort of spirituality.

Man, what a sucky social occasion.

[g0zen]

Man, what a sucky social occasion.

Damn right, I loathed spending summers at the YMCA.

[Fe 26]

Damn right, I loathed spending summers at the YMCA.

You ever go to CampMaywoodwhatever?

[g0zen]

You ever go to CampMaywoodwhatever?

No, but I did get sent to one of those Youth Fellowship seminars / sermons / concerts once. I tell ya, nothing cements either one's love or hatred for Christian music quite like one of those things.

[The_Meach]

Not necessarily, it is only that we haven't discovered everything yet. That is primarily why I prefer science over religion, it is always expanding always under revision to refine old theories and laws. There is no real absolute like there is in religion.

If we were to say that science has not discovered everything but that it may do so...and that we supposed that it eventually would...

Could we then say that we were taking it as a matter of faith that science would eventually discover everything?

<wry, WFB smile>

</Firing Line>

[Lucifer]

BLAH BLAH LOL BLAH

I can help you.

[g0zen]

If we were to say that science has not discovered everything but that it may do so...and that we supposed that it eventually would...

Could we then say that we were taking it as a matter of faith that science would eventually discover everything?

<wry, WFB smile>

</Firing Line>

There is nothing says that science has to or is even capable of discovering everything, and even if we came to a point where we thought we knew everything it'd only be a matter of time before a new theory came and replaced some old one and showed how completely off we were on theories X, Y, and Z.

The point is that science is ever changing because it can admit (albiet sometimes only after great pains) that it is wrong. Religion will not and cannot by its very nature do that.

I don't have faith in science, but I do trust it.