Star Wars: Attack of the Nitpicks (spoilers - duh)

[Space Pirate Roberts]

Let me preface this by saying I LOVE Attack of the Clones. I TRULY, DEEPLY love it (trademark SW cheese dialogue and all). The effects are seemless, the pacing is properly on par with the classics (unlike the sloooooooooow MENACE), the acting is (mostly) good.

The issue I want to talk about isn't something like that. It's a fundamental structural flaw with implications to the entire saga. I didn't really notice it either time I watched the film; it wasn't until reading the novelization (highly recommended by the way; it expands on and clarifies certain issues and is generally well-written, save for the flat descriptions of the ending saber duel.) that I realized this problem.

The genesis of Darth Vader, the slaughter of a Tusken villiage, is really rather poorly done. I had seen this lauded in Moriarty's script review on Aintitcool, but it doesn't really work for me. You see, after thinking about it, it really doesn't seem to me that Anakin has done an evil thing. Everything was see of the Tusken Raiders, in this and the other films, and every description of them, does nothing to refute the statement that they are nothing but viscious, sadistic, murderous creatures, the Dark Side made flesh.

So Anakin killed the women and children... so what. The women provide shelter to the mindless killers, and the children will only grow up to be mindless killers. Lucas has in no way shown us that they galaxy is anything but a better place for their deaths. I really wanted to be shocked and disturbed by the event that began Anakin's descent into darkness, but instead it seems perfectly justified, even beneficial to the universe at large.

[Despair]

Well, I agree with you about Tuskens, those were never shown as anything other than vicious, murderous desert beasts, and every time they appear in SW universe they trying to do harm. So I dont think they will be greatly missed, but the whole act of slaughter out of rage and anger, that what affects Anakins, especially at that young age of 18.

The thing that bugged me more, was why he suddenly decides to go there after whole 10 years. Nice son, isnt he if he didnt even tried to learn about how his mother was doing all these years. He didnt even know where the hell she was, when he got to Tatooin! I understand about all that training and restrictions Jedie put on him, but he couldnt find time to write one god damn letter or send like email in whole 10 years? And when she dies, he cries that she ment soo much to him, I dont believe!!

Another continuity error, might be about droids. Since Anakin/Darth Vader made C3PO and knew R2D2, why he cant remember them in original SW films, and those droids dont remember Luke's uncle nor know or talk about what happened to Luke's fater. Same goes for Uncle, he doesnt remember the droids either, eventhough he owned C3PO for atleast for years.

Also what is possibility of EVERY planet they visit to have oxygen? They never have a space suit, or need one? Every alien species shown breathes oxygen? Yeah, right!

[sleeve]

I think slaughtering a village of defenseless Tusken women and children classifies as an evil act.

Sure, the Tusken men are violent, but this is Tatooine we're talking about -- Darwinisim personified (survival of the fittest). The Tuskens are probably some group of hunter-gatherers who steal to feed their families. Given all the lawlessness on Tatooine -- Jabba the Hut, Mos Eisley, the human slave trade -- are the Tuskens any less deserving of compassion? I don't think so. Don't forget that the humans on Tatooine kept slaves as well (even the Lars family).

As for Anakin not returning to Tatooine for ten years: I think it's made clear that, as a part of Jedi training, the padawan must abandon his familial ties for the sake of his studies. He couldn't return home even if he wanted to, according to the rules of the Order. That's why Anakin's return to Tatooine is such an anti-Jedi decision. It makes perfect sense.

[Nash]

Originally posted by LordPerrin
Let me preface this by saying I LOVE Attack of the Clones. I TRULY, DEEPLY love it (trademark SW cheese dialogue and all). The effects are seemless, the pacing is properly on par with the classics (unlike the sloooooooooow MENACE), the acting is (mostly) good.

i disagree here. phantom menace's pacing was a lot better. the story segments and action segments were spread out pretty evenly throughout the movie. attack of the clones dragged on until the the last third of the movie.

[Space Pirate Roberts]

As for Anakin not returning to Tatooine for ten years: I think it's made clear that, as a part of Jedi training, the padawan must abandon his familial ties for the sake of his studies. He couldn't return home even if he wanted to, according to the rules of the Order. That's why Anakin's return to Tatooine is such an anti-Jedi decision. It makes perfect sense.

Precisely. As Anakin said, "Attachment is forbidden." Remember, most Jedi don't even have a family outside the Order. One of the oaths they must take before being accepted by a Master is to forsake all past and future loyalties save that to the Order, so even writing to his mother, let alone visiting her, would probably be nearly as much a transgression as his secret marriage.

[piku]

Precisely. As Anakin said, "Attachment is forbidden." Remember, most Jedi don't even have a family outside the Order. One of the oaths they must take before being accepted by a Master is to forsake all past and future loyalties save that to the Order, so even writing to his mother, let alone visiting her, would probably be nearly as much a transgression as his secret marriage.

Yeah, but those are awful ways of showing how he is going astray in his Jedi training. We can sympathize with him about wanting to get married and love someone, or caring for his parents. It’s rather hard (at least I thought it was :P) to sympathize with the slaughtering of a village; yet they focus on the love part, while spending all of 10 seconds on the slaughter. If they emphasized him going mad and his violent side more during the movie he would be more convincing as an evil person - as it stands he actually doesn’t seem like that bad of a person at the end of Episode II.

[ssbomberman]

Originally posted by piku

Yeah, but those are awful ways of showing how he is going astray in his Jedi training. We can sympathize with him about wanting to get married and love someone, or caring for his parents. It’s rather hard (at least I thought it was :P) to sympathize with the slaughtering of a village; yet they focus on the love part, while spending all of 10 seconds on the slaughter. If they emphasized him going mad and his violent side more during the movie he would be more convincing as an evil person - as it stands he actually doesn’t seem like that bad of a person at the end of Episode II.

See I think that's the important point-- Maybe Darth isn't that bad of a person and maybe there are major flaws with the Jedi order? Or maybe because of the set of circumstances that Anakin goes through, it would be impossible for him not to go to the darkside--these are questions I think Lucas is raising.

I never got the impression that Vader enjoyed killing and what not, but rather that he was doing his duty for the empire--or rather that he thinks he is doing what is right for the empire...

Let's look at the things he can't do:

He's not allowed to miss his mother and under Kenobi's tutelage is unable to contact or visit her; he is not allowed to love; and he is not allowed to fight out of anger or revenge (that's why we see Yoda fight only when the lives of other Jedi are in danger-- Yoda represents the ultimate Jedi).

First of all, I think the Empire set up the whole kidnapping of Anakin's mother to lead him to the darkside-- it makes too much sense for it not to work. If the Tusken's were cannibals they would have eaten her, otherwise they would have used her to get items-- you never see in the first films that Tuskens are interested in torture, but rather that they are like desert pirates--that will kill to get what they want...so they were paid to kidnap and keep his mother until he arrived...(of course they had no idea he was going to killl them all...though I think the darkside did)--that's my take on it anyway...

So Anakin is supposed to just take the fact that his mother was killed by them? Who would honestly have the power to not kill them? No one, except maybe Yoda, so of course he is going to do it. What would be the right thing to do? I have no idea...so anyway, Anakin does the deed and steps closer to the darkside...it's not really his fault...

Then he falls for Amidala and gets married to her--obviously something is going to happen to her and this may be another incident that leads him to darkside...

And of course he is becoming disolutioned with the Jedi order. In Anakin's mind, he was killing to Tusken's to protect others from harm--to the Jedi he was going against what he was taught. To Anakin, he was simply loving Amidala as all humans do and to deny those feelings would be wrong--to the Jedi, marrying Amidala is wrong because he must be attached to no one...(major contradiciton if you ask me-- the Jedi are righteous and supposed to fight for justice, etc. yet they are to live as robots and not feel...).

I think Anakin notices these flaws as many of us do...I would do the same in his shoes...the Tuskens could not continue to live and to deny love-- well what other reason is there really to live?
So I think Lucas' characters are interesting because there is no clear-cut good and bad. Maybe Darth isn't such a bad guy, but rather the victim of circumstance and clouded judgement?

So basically all of his actions are significant in his going to the darkside. His love affair is equally as import, if not more important, than slaughtering the Tusken village, but none of them are really avoidable. I think the darkside set things up to bring him over and it would have been practically impossible for him not to turn.

[Green]

I have a hard time beleiving Padme would fall for, not to mention marry a sworn murderer. Here is a lady that has the responsibilities of countless lives on her hands, yet falls for a man who has done a very evil thing and confessed he has no remorse. I think it was a huge flaw for Lucas not to show her moralizing or even thinking about what Anikin has done. This lapse of logic, to me, is the biggest blow to the Star Wars series yet. We aren't talking about some annoying side characters, this is important stuff he is disregarding here. I just don't beleive her love for him was that strong, he pretty much just shows up, exchanges a few glances, then outright confesses he has always loved her, and she just goes along with it. The romance was a complete failure in my eyes, neither Ani or Padme showed any signs they truely loved each other, and they don't really have any reason to.


About R2 and 3PO's memories, I just read at AICN that in Episode 3, the droids will have their memories erased for some undiscloded reason. Also, they are shooting stuff over time that will be added to the original trilogy when it gets released on dvd like Padme in Jedi, and Jar Jar in A New Hope.

[ssbomberman]

Originally posted by Green
I have a hard time beleiving Padme would fall for, not to mention marry a sworn murderer. Here is a lady that has the responsibilities of countless lives on her hands, yet falls for a man who has done a very evil thing and confessed he has no remorse. I think it was a huge flaw for Lucas not to show her moralizing or even thinking about what Anikin has done. This lapse of logic, to me, is the biggest blow to the Star Wars series yet. We aren't talking about some annoying side characters, this is important stuff he is disregarding here. I just don't beleive her love for him was that strong, he pretty much just shows up, exchanges a few glances, then outright confesses he has always loved her, and she just goes along with it. The romance was a complete failure in my eyes, neither Ani or Padme showed any signs they truely loved each other, and they don't really have any reason to.


About R2 and 3PO's memories, I just read at AICN that in Episode 3, the droids will have their memories erased for some undiscloded reason. Also, they are shooting stuff over time that will be added to the original trilogy when it gets released on dvd like Padme in Jedi, and Jar Jar in A New Hope.

You know, I agree with you...my biggest disappointment was that I didn't feel Anakin worked as a teenage Vader and I wasn't really convinced that they were really in love. As far as her moralizing the situation-- he didn't kill people, he killed tusken raiders (that are most likely held to be savage creatures that everyone hates) that had just killed his mother-- I'm sure she had to do even worse things as a queen and senator...

We don't get to know much about Padme-- very little is revealed about her...I'm suprised she didn't atleast react to him killing them, but I suppose she felt it was justifiable since they killed his mother...

[Green]

What got to me was what he said, and how he said it, "I killed them all, and not just the men, but the WOMEN, and the CHILDREN". I don't care who you are, killing kids is not something to take lightly. Even the most closest people to me, if they did something like that, I wouldn't beleive they are the same person. I guess I just don't share the same opionion about Tusken Raiders being the ultimate skum of the galaxy. So they are savage to teen trespassers, and they hold people captive for whatever reasons, so what. I'm thinking the Tuskens were there first, and they simply cannot communicate with any other race. They live a harsh nomadic life, but that doesn't mean they are totally cruel and evil. The men might love thier kids and women, but no one knows because the only people there are settlers who just want to be moisture farmers and don't know anything about Sandpeople. Just because someone is of a different culture doesn't make them evil, and Padme of all people should know this.