Question about ATI/Nvidia graphic cards.

[Tracer]

A Microsoft suit would be nuts to starve the PC market. PC gaming is as much their platform (Windows) as Xbox is. Even then they still release games for Mac.

[Diff-chan]

Your %%'s are based on 2006 assumptions. In 2008-9 the 500 dollar video card is going to give you a sizeable edge over any console.

Yea, and no games will be using that power because all 2008-2009 games will be coded for the 2006 graphics chips. You wont see games using the 08-09 power until 10-11, which is when new consoles will be introduced, anyway.

That is pretty indicitive of all the MAJOR companies (EA also). For them to experience growth (dollars), they NEED to be on all platforms with every franchise. Grant exclusivity for some ... but still hit every platform (PC included). You have a Microsoft suit saying he "is focused on what gamers want" 9which is code for: We don't want to tie the hands of our game makers) and you have the game publishers saying "We want to be everywhere with all of our important games". That's the reality of the next generation for consoles and PC games.

Yes, and my original point was that the console experience may start to turn more and more people off from PC gaming. Right now, with the current systems being Xbox and PS2, its not surprising some people want PC games: no mouse keyboard, underwhelming resolution. But whats gonna happen when you got consoles with mouse keyboard and amazing HDTV support, all from your comfy couch? Ahh, thats where things can change. And no matter what Allard or Activision says, if theyre not gonna make money funding a PC version, theyre not gonna fund a PC version.

Okay, besides, I was just laying out the possible scenario as I see it. Im not saying Im right. Wait and see, right?

A Microsoft suit would be nuts to starve the PC market. PC gaming is as much their platform (Windows) as Xbox is. Even then they still release games for Mac.

I agree, but it wont be as much Microsoft's decision as the market's. Anyway, I dont think gaming is as important to Windows as it was even a few years ago - look, Apple's gaining marketshare every day and has been for the past 3 years and their game support is as abysmal as ever.

[Changeling]

Well, a couple things to counter this.

For one thing, how many people are willing to spend $300-$500 on a new graphics card that can get them maybe 10% or 15% worth of performance increases over a console that costs $300 by itself? Assuming that the nvidia and ATI chips in the 360/PS3 are the most advanced out there in mid-2006, all games that are in development from now until 2006 are going to be optimized for those chips... that takes us into mid-2008/early-2009 releases.

The games taking advantage of the more-advanced cards arent gonna be out until 2010/2011. The most advanced engines now - Source and Doom 3 - were coded for ATI 9800s, not the new shit thats here now.

I jumped off the PC hardware bandwagon when I spent $300 on a state of the art GeForce 1 in 1999. It was able to kill all the games I had, of course. But by the time games were coming out that used the card's extra features, the card didnt have the raw power and fillrate necessary to power those games. It was a waste of money, really.

So, more and more people are possibly coming to this realization. Theres always gonna be a select few that will buy the newest shit to stay ahead of the game. But those people, especially with the 360 and PS3 coming out, might be a shrinking minority, to the point where developers wont care about the market anymore.

We're even seeing that more now, the PC is kinda becoming a "port if you got the time" platform instead of the primary one, which it absolutely was 5 or 6 years ago. Console versions of PC games, inferior though they might be, are routinely outselling the PC versions by a huge margin. Sometimes companies dont even bother to put a former-PC title on the PC anymore (Ghost Recon 2). Im just saying thats its possible that this phenomenon might become more pronounced over the next two years and continue to wither away at the PC's userbase (because, after all, nobody will make PC games if they cant sell PC games).

I think alot of people understand how games are made to run on a PC. I understand your woes. My videocard purchases went from Banshee, Voodoo3 , Geforce 2 , Geforce 4 ti and Radeon 9800. That is a span from 98 till now. I won't but another card till the Unreal engine 3 stuff comes out. Most people don't stay on the bleeding edge of videocard technology, but I think more people know how and when to upgrade than you give credit to. I do agree that it is a flaw in the PC industry, but there is rewarding games for sticking with it. Cutting edge FPS's and RTS's will ALWAYS be on the PC first. Always. Of course, they won't be as popular as Halo, but thats ok.
There will always be a place for the PC. Besides, ATI and Nvidia are in the business of making money(videocards too) and like someone else stated in this thread, you can't stay in business making money in 4 year increments.

[kedawa]

The PC is going to take a bit of a hit from the next generation of systems, as is always the case, but if the 360 and PS3 are going to have web browsers, instant messaging and music, then a lot of kids are going to forego getting a PC altogether, and the PC will just become a workstation. This could have a devestating effect on PC gaming when that generation of gamers becomes the core demographic for gaming.

Personally, I like the idea of playing games on a PC. The only thing keeping me from becoming a PC-only gamer is the fact that I hate the only OS that has decent game support.

My ideal game system would probably be a high-end Power Mac, if there were actually more than a handful of titles available.

[toxic]

I hate to stereotype people ... but it seems as people get older, they seem to gravitate towards PC games more. Who knows why (maybe because PC gaming was so popular in thier formative years)?

I will be interested to see if the future X-kiddies make the transition in 10 years from now .. or if console games will still have the same allure for them.

[Diff-chan]

I hate to stereotype people ... but it seems as people get older, they seem to gravitate towards PC games more. Who knows why (maybe because PC gaming was so popular in thier formative years)?

You cant possibly believe this. Teenagers and script kiddiez are all about the PC gaming, especially those l33t FPSes like CounterStrike. PC action gaming is just as juvenile as it is on the consoles. Go to any gaming cafe and tell me how many people older than 25 you see.

I think people like... 40 and above prefer PC games because theyre tired of FPSes and prefer slower paced strategy games and what not, and they already have a PC and just want one or two games.

Make no doubt about it... the older gaming market is gonna be very different in 10 years than it is now.

[toxic]

You cant possibly believe this. Teenagers and script kiddiez are all about the PC gaming, especially those l33t FPSes like CounterStrike. PC action gaming is just as juvenile as it is on the consoles. Go to any gaming cafe and tell me how many people older than 25 you see.

I think people like... 40 and above prefer PC games because theyre tired of FPSes and prefer slower paced strategy games and what not, and they already have a PC and just want one or two games.

Make no doubt about it... the older gaming market is gonna be very different in 10 years than it is now.

For every CS and UT you have dozens of other games that skew alot older (Civ, Rome:Total War, NWN, WWII FPS's). Picking CS is sort of a no brainer, and not representitive of the typical PC gamer.

Anyone over 25 would have thier own office and internet connection. I don't see why they would want to goto a cyber cafe.

[gamevet]

Have you heard of a company named Ageia? They are a semiconducor company working on a new chip design, they like to call the PPU (Physics Processing Unit).

A current top of the line P4 or Athlon 64 can support roughly 30 to 40 active objects onscreen (Physics applications). With a PPU, games can handle roughly 30,000 to 40,000 objects.

This little card, could have a huge impact on the future of PC gaming.

[outRider]

Have you heard of a company named Ageia? They are a semiconducor company working on a new chip design, they like to call the PPU (Physics Processing Unit).



This little card, could have a huge impact on the future of PC gaming.

I think a few people on the board have been talking about how this next generation doesn't seem to be a significant jump in graphics quality. True enough, GPUs haven't radically changed in a while, but CPUs have.

Expect the next generation to be all about physics and AI, because the extra cores and processors that these new machines are packing won't produce better graphics at all, all that parallel processing power can only really be leveraged by AI and physics. This PPU sounds interesting, and has potential to be even faster than the next gen's parallel processors at certain tasks, but I think you'll see hints of their potential in the 360, PS3, and Rev.

[Anthony]

As long as I can't play my FPS on my couch with mouse + keyboard comfortably, I won't be playing my FPS's on my couch. I'm still happy with Q3 though, so I guess I don't fall into thier marketing section.