David Cross's open letter to Larry the Cable Guy

[Tones]

I used to be really big into watching comedy... I used to watch Comedy Central Presents religously every Friday night, and I probably have about 30 hours of it recorded.

I think that it's impossible to judge these comedians against each other, since their styles and audiences are so different. A lot of people bash Blue Collar, but I've lived in the south for all of my life, so I know what these guys are talking about, even though they are exaggerations (but what comedy isn't?).

With films, you have your different moods: You have the intellectual movies, biographies, and action movies, for example. Comedy is the same way: You have the comedians who rely a lot more on subtlety (I can't think of any off the top of my head), you have those like Dane Cook and Brian Reagan, who are both very expressive through body language and movement, and you have people like the Blue Collar comedians, who rely more on personal tales and such for their routines.

[johnk_]

Found this part very interesting too, for those that just skimmed or didn't read it, he's not even southern. Dean Whitney aka Larry the Cable guy is literally a cartoon character:

He's not southern because he's from Nebraska? That's just nitpicking.

Nebraska is still part of Jesusland.

P.S.- No, i'm not defending him or anything.. I couldn't give two shits about this exchange between them.

[Frogacuda]

Uh oh we have an "afficianado" on our hands. The bottom line in comedy is laughs. If you can get there in a way that appeals to a lot of people more power to you, and Dane has done it and done it well.

Hasn't Larry done that same thing? And I don't think DYLE was trying to come of as an afficionado at all. He was just making some comparisons to other mainstream comedians.

And laughs don't sell tickets. It's a wierd fact about comedy that if you go to a show on a Friday or Saturday night, at least half of the people have never heard of the comic they're about to see. There's some great stand up comics that you've probably never seen that don't get played on Comedy Central, or only do in scripted or severely edited form, and if you're not at the clubs than you aren't going to know about them. It's not about who's the funniest, it's about marketing. And Dane Cook did an amazing job of building his career using grass roots methods to get some good TV exposure so that people who don't go to comedy clubs actually know who he is. But don't make it sound like every comic gets an equal shot in terms of exposure, and it's not that easy for a lot of the guys with darker senses of humor, or views that don't jive with Comedy Central.

[sphere79]

This is the stupidest thing said in the thread yet, which is really an accomplishment.

Well excuse me if I'm not a fucking "David Cross" aficionado, from what I've heard he seems left-wing to me, he certainly hates "the war", right-wingers and Republicans. My point was I'm not really sure what Cooks political slant is, and because of his Leno appearance I'm thinking maybe he leans right of center. Or maybe Cross just doesn't like his comedy style because he doesn't cover "serious" issues and use his stand-up to vent his views. Either way, this is the third comedian I've heard/read taking digs at Dane Cook. I know there's alot of infighting and routine-stealing in the comedy community, but I think the animosity towards Cook stems mainly from jealousy. The, "I'm way funnier than him and I don't have an album deal" kind. Or maybe he's just an asshole off-stage? Who Knows.

[Frogacuda]

Cross didn't insult Cook as a comic at all. He just said that he sucks up to his fans a lot, which he does, and that's part of how he got where he is.

Or maybe Cross just doesn't like his comedy style because he doesn't cover "serious" issues and use his stand-up to vent his views.

I think that it's the hallmark of a truly great comedian that they do put part of themselves into their comedy and create something personal to express their views (be they on politics, race, religion, or relationships). Carlin, Pryor, Hicks, Kinisson... the people that really defined stand up as an art all shared this. It takes more balls and more talent to make comedy out of that than to go for easy laughs with simple material.

[ChaoofNee]

Dane Cook is a very funny comedian, but not a great joke writer. It's mostly absurdist nonsense, and when someone tells you a Dane Cook joke, it's never funny. Which is fine. I think he's a funny bitch, but the material is basically a string of silliness and non-sequiturs.

"What if you dove in the water, and while you were under there, someone covered the water with FIRE. ...and when you actually found a hole where there was no fire and you came out, some big dude just immediately punched you in the face?"
Yeah, I see what you mean. I love me the random shit, though, so his rants are for me.

[Frogacuda]

Yeah, I don't want you to get me wrong. I bought his CDs, I enjoyed his specials. He's a good comic, but there's a few people I'd put above him, for sure.

[g0zen]

Go see Patrice O'neal, Doug Stanhope, or Joe Rogan some time.

Joe Rogan? The guy from Fear Factor? LOL.

Brutal, unapologetic comedians who aren't afraid to speak their version of the truth, even if it means burning bridges, having audiences walk on them, getting banned from clubs, etc, just like the true legends of this biz like Bill Hicks and Lenny Bruce. To me, that is the hallmark of a truly great comdian.

Okay, I've seen O'Neal and Stanhope's comedy and they're NOTHING compared to Lenny Bruce or Bill Hicks. Now you can say what I saw was their "G-rated" stuff, but that just goes to show how much they AREN'T like Hicks or Bruce. Those guys didn't HAVE family friendly comedy, and they weren't about to change that to make a buck appearing on the fucking Bob & Tom Show or on Comedy Central.

The only one alive today who DOES do completely no holds barred Lenny Bruce style comedy is Carlin, and if you don't think that's true then YOU don't know shit about stand-up.

[Frogacuda]

Joe Rogan? The guy from Fear Factor? LOL.

Yeah. He's a damned good comedian. Go see him some time. There's a reason you never see his actual comedy on TV, and why networks have reduced him to a host. He's burned every bridge in Hollywood.

Okay, I've seen O'Neal and Stanhope's comedy and they're NOTHING compared to Lenny Bruce or Bill Hicks.

1) I NEVER said that they were as good an Lenny Bruce or Bill Hicks, but just that they're willing to take risks for their art like they were, in a way that Dane Cook does not and to that effect I have more respect for them than I do for Dane Cook. Stop taking shit out of context and making comparisons that I never made.

2) If you haven't seen O'neal live, then you haven't really seen him, because he hasn't put out any decent recorded material. I'm not being a snob, or making that statement about every comedian, but in this case it's an unfortunate truth. His Comedy Central special wouldn't let him do any of his regular material (it's still funny, but it's not the kind of stuff he usually does), and his HBO special was edited wierd and condensed and the timing's all off (It was an hour set, squeezed into 26 mintues). And he's a lazy son of a bitch and he won't put out a DVD. That doesn't change the fact that on-stage, he's one of the best comics working today, and so are a lot of people that you don't see on TV at all. There's a reason I said "Go see them some time" and not "keep an eye out for them on basic cable some time."

Now you can say what I saw was their "G-rated" stuff, but that just goes to show how much they AREN'T like Hicks or Bruce. Those guys didn't HAVE family friendly comedy, and they weren't about to change that to make a buck appearing on the fucking Bob & Tom Show or on Comedy Central.

You're wrong. Bill Hicks did 12 appearences on Letterman, and believe me, he wasn't doing the Rush Limbaugh bit. He did radio interviews too. But the fact is that these didn't pander to their audience, and neither to the guys I mentioned. When you do a recorded bit on TV you play by the rules because it won't air otherwise, but it's different at a live show. Bill Hicks and Lenny Bruce would antogonize their audience, have people walk and get banned from clubs all the time. And you know what? Patrice O'neal does the same shit. Because he's completely unafraid to be more brutally honest than he ought to be.

Oh, and comics don't get payed for appearing on those shitty radio shows, they do it to advertise the live show, which IS the fucking bottom line.

The only one alive today who DOES do completely no holds barred Lenny Bruce style comedy is Carlin, and if you don't think that's true then YOU don't know shit about stand-up.

You admit to using censored outlets to judge these guys, and then you want to tell me who the ONLY fucking person who does raw comedy is? Asshole, I go to live comedy shows probably 20 times a year, buy a ton of CDs and DVDs, and I saw Carlin's last special and I didn't laugh once at his banal observations and faggoty beatnik poetry about how he doesn't what a gigabyte is. He's fucking Regis Philbin with swear words now. I'm not denying that the man is a legend, that he's one of the greatest comics ever, but if you're talking about people performing now, you are out of it. His material is NOT offensive, it's NOT cutting edge, and he ain't risking shit (and since he has a billion dollars and international fame anyway, I'm not sure what a risk would even be for him). His current material is trite, juvenile, and irrelevant, and has more in common with Larry the Cable Guy than the Carlin of old.

Again, I don't want to sound like an elitist here, so I want to make it clear, that I am not the one making absolute statements about people I've never seen or heard of. I never said who the best comic was, or who the only one who does such and such is. But I'm right by NYC, I go to the clubs all the time, I'm heavily into the current comedy scene, and I'm at least familiar enough to talk about a few guys that I like that you've never been to see, and suggest that you might want to go see them. You don't know shit and you just said there ain't shit to know. I hope it doesn't seem snobby if I point out what a naive and arrogant statement that was to make.

[Rumpy]

Tell 'em Frog! Hoo Hoo.