So, um, yeah

[g0zen]

There should be no debate over the death penalty. It is the only punishment that has zero chance of being reversed after the fact.

Exactly, and what happens when they're proven innocent after the fact? Now you have two murders on your hands, and you can't order the death penalty for the state that killed your loved one wrongly. Don't say that this is a fluke that rarely happens, its happened far too many times already and there is no evidence that it won't happen again.

Now, in cases like this where there is no doubt whatsoever as to the murderer's guilt, I'd say we lobotomize them as that's far more humilating fate than quick, painless, death. But to say that we should abandon the appealate process in favor of expediency is wrong. Very wrong.

Again, I really wish we could have kept this and any debate out of such an emotionally charged situation.

[Diff-chan]

There should be no debate over the death penalty.

Except its racist, overly expensive, based on barbaric notions of eye-for-an-eye revenge, ineffective as a deterrent, and dependent on the justice system as it currently stands to decide on the matter. You know, the justice system that acquitted OJ, Robert Blake, Michael Jackson, and Richard Scrushy.

[Revoltor]

Yeah but at least we got Tookie Williams.

[Josh]

They threatened him at gunpoint and then threatened to kill his kids if he didn't tell them where the money was. There was no money in the house. He offered them his ATM card, offered to go to any bank, anywhere, to get the money out of the bank for them and they just didn't believe him. He begged and pleaded for the lives of his family and in the end he made a run for it because his neighbor was a cop. He was rewarded with three rounds in the back and his family and pregnant wife no longer have a father.

This is some horrible shit Haoh... sorry to hear about it.

[Yoshi]

Except its racist, overly expensive, based on barbaric notions of eye-for-an-eye revenge, ineffective as a deterrent, and dependent on the justice system as it currently stands to decide on the matter.

These are different from life in prison how? I'd solve the deterent part by making it truly a barbaric notion, BTW.

Exactly, and what happens when they're proven innocent after the fact?

After the fact? Meaning after 20 fucking years of appeals? I'd actually like to see numbers on how often that happens.

[Diff-chan]

Umm because its state-sponsored murder maybe? Here's a list of countries that also do this for ordinary crimes in the year 2006:

AFGHANISTAN, ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA, BAHAMAS, BANGLADESH, BARBADOS, BELARUS, BELIZE, BOTSWANA, BURUNDI, CAMEROON, CHAD, CHINA, COMOROS, CONGO (Democratic Republic), CUBA, DOMINICA, EGYPT, EQUATORIAL GUINEA, ERITREA, ETHIOPIA, GABON, GHANA, GUATEMALA, GUINEA, GUYANA, INDIA, INDONESIA, IRAN, IRAQ, JAMAICA, JAPAN, JORDAN, KAZAKSTAN, KOREA (North), KOREA (South), KUWAIT, KYRGYZSTAN, LAOS, LEBANON, LESOTHO, LIBYA, MALAWI, MALAYSIA, MONGOLIA, NIGERIA, OMAN, PAKISTAN, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, PHILIPPINES, QATAR, RWANDA, SAINT CHRISTOPHER & NEVIS, SAINT LUCIA, SAINT VINCENT & GRENADINES, SAUDI ARABIA, SIERRA LEONE, SINGAPORE, SOMALIA, SUDAN, SWAZILAND, SYRIA, TAIWAN, TAJIKISTAN, TANZANIA, THAILAND, TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, UGANDA, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, UZBEKISTAN, VIET NAM, YEMEN, ZAMBIA, ZIMBABWE

Maybe this is a list you like being on with the likes of the full Axis of Evil, Libya, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Cuba, etc.... I do not however. Even Liberia, whose whole existence is defined from being a US wannabe, took themselves off this ghastly list last year. Id rather not stoop down to the criminal's level.

[Dolemite]

I don't know where to begin here, but I didn't want to post this in sound off because I'd rather have people see it here who have been around for a while.

Remember the thread way back when where I was dating a 20 year old girl? Well, we're still together and things are good.

Of course I remember. I always have the upmost respect and admiration for 38 year old guys who hook up with girls 18 years their junior.

Today, this happened: http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?se...cal&id=3870053

This is her uncle. She lives here in NY, not too far from me, and she was very close with her fathers brother. Turns out that 3 black guys were scoping the house out and were convinced that this man had money in his house. They threatened him at gunpoint and then threatened to kill his kids if he didn't tell them where the money was. There was no money in the house. He offered them his ATM card, offered to go to any bank, anywhere, to get the money out of the bank for them and they just didn't believe him. He begged and pleaded for the lives of his family and in the end he made a run for it because his neighbor was a cop. He was rewarded with three rounds in the back and his family and pregnant wife no longer have a father.

Anyone wanna have that death penalty debate with me NOW? I'm fucking livid over this. Lazy ass SOB's that want to steal instead of work and destroy a family for all time. My GF is totally wrecked and there's nothing I can say to console her.

That's pretty horrible. As for the death penalty, I'm not quite sure how I feel about it. Certainly I have no qualms about a murderer being killed, assuming the convicted party is actually guilty- I have no moral reasons whatsoever against it. But like omfgninjas said, you'd think a criminal would suffer more spending life in prison, knowing everything has been taken away forever. Sure, the death penalty has that terror leading up to the time of the execution, but unless you believe in the concept of an afterlife (and especially one that actually judges you and sentences you to go to Heaven or Hell), then there's nothing after he's dead. No pain, no regret, nothing. Some might consider that punishment, some might not. Of course, what with appeals and all, it could take years for the execution to take place, so the killer still gets to rot in prison for a while with nothing but his fate to consider.

Then again, to the family of the victim, knowing their relative's killer is still alive no matter what his circumstances might be too much to bear. So, I certainly see how death might be an appropriate punishment in that case. There's really no clear-cut answer either way, because regardless of the punishment, it still doesn't restore the loss.

Now instead of armed robbery, they are looking at 2nd, and possibly 1st degree murder

Actually, depending on the jurisdiction, if you cap someone while comitting a robbery it's considered felony-murder, which is a capital crime. It becomes equivalent to 1st degree murder in terms of severity.

If you must rob me, plz just wear a mask and take what I have and go.

For real. If you get held up by a guy that makes no attempt to conceal his identity, I'd be twice as worried.

[Yoshi]

Maybe this is a list you like being on with the likes of the full Axis of Evil, Libya, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Cuba, etc.... I do not however. Even Liberia, whose whole existence is defined from being a US wannabe, took themselves off this ghastly list last year. Id rather not stoop down to the criminal's level.

That's a bullshit comparison, and you know it. Most of those countries don't even pretend to have due process even. Besides that obvious difference, I am torn between being on a list with those countries versus being on one with france, Germany, China, and Russia.

[Master of 7s]

Oh for the love of.....

Yoshi, DiffusionX, take this pissing contest to some other thread.

For God's sake, Haoh has just suffered a major trauma in his life and only posted this thread here for lack of a better source to vent his anger.

He made it pretty clear he wasn't interested in starting a debate over this shit and you guys are gaying this thread up. Knock it off.

[Diff-chan]

Eat a dick. The OP was the one who mentioned death penalty debate. Yoshi then came in with his red meat nonsense.