History lesson with Joe Lieberman

[Bacon McShig]

Diff should move to Iraq since they are so much more civilized than we are.

Also Lieberman is a douche, a prime example of what's wrong with American politics. He wants to sit in your living room and tell you what is okay for you to watch. Hmmmm, Communistic ain't it?

Nice to see your jingoistic buzzwords are still stuck in the 50's.

[Othello Harrington]

Nice to see your jingoistic buzzwords are still stuck in the 50's.

What would you call it? Progressive Liberalism, isn't his stance on American consumers the opposite of what the Democratic party stands for.


PS: Telling you what you should watch and having things pulled from the shelf because he feels that the "Higher Power" in the US should make the calls is a lot like Stalin's management style.

[Diff-chan]

What would you call it? Progressive Liberalism, isn't his stance on American consumers the opposite of what the Democratic party stands for.

Yea, it is, and it's important to keep in mind that Joe has been Bush's Democratic lapdog since 9/11, that's why he lost the primary. This vote, though, arguably trumps them all. He's a pandering moralist with no morals.

[sleeve]

Diff should move to Iraq since they are so much more civilized than we are.

Can we cut the partisan bullshit and appreciate just how atrocious this bill really is?

Do you understand how uniquely bad this bill is in the history of not just American jurisprudence, but over a millenium of Anglo-American common law dating back to the Magna Carta?

Do you understand that not only does this bill give the executive branch unilateral, unreviewable authority to torture, but that it also gives the executive the kind of power that it has not enjoyed since the time of King John?

This is neither a liberal nor a conservative issue, but an American one. Anyone who loves and respects the principles on which this country was founded must oppose this bill.

[Bacon McShig]

What would you call it? Progressive Liberalism, isn't his stance on American consumers the opposite of what the Democratic party stands for.


PS: Telling you what you should watch and having things pulled from the shelf because he feels that the "Higher Power" in the US should make the calls is a lot like Stalin's management style.

Right, but Stalinist communism falls under the actual definition of communism like neo-conservativism falls under the definition of Republican. Or, as you said, as Progressive Liberalist fits with Democrat.

I wasn't defending Lieberman, just saying it was the wrong term to use. Totalitarianism would have been a more appropos term.

[James]

Thanks, Sleeveboy. I was going to say something, but I doubt I would have said it that well.

James

[JefmcC]

Night Trap was back on the shelves as fast as they could get new boxes printed up with the ESRB rating on them. Now we have awesome games geared towards adults.

For some reason, I believe the USA has used tourture behind closed doors since the begining. This bill is an attempt to make it legitimate to protect those doing the tourture.

I don't know what I think of this bill. On the one hand, I think G.W. and his boys have gotten way out of hand. Checks and balances are getting raped left and right.

On the other hand, it will just be business as usual. We will still tourture, only now it will be "legal". The ACLU will still cry foul, and so on.

The Patriot Act hasen't changed my life one bit. I don't think this will either. Not directly anyway.

Oh, and Joe is gonna win. Go Joe!! Suck it Lamont!
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x11362.xml?ReleaseID=964

[Diff-chan]

For some reason, I believe the USA has used tourture behind closed doors since the begining.

Colbert lampoons those that vote or make decisions based on how "they feel" and how it doesn't matter what the truth is but what matters is your gut beliefs. It's sad that in spite of its inherent ridiculousness this "logic" has taken hold in this country.

Torture is unacceptable. Period. Even if torture has taken place in this country, there are rights of the tortured and procedures in place to prohibit it. if the people get caught torturing they get brought to justice. That's what happens in a nation of laws. It's not a perfect system but it has brought America high moral standing in the world for at least a century and has been frequently emulated and admired.

This legislation tears down those procedures and rights and replaces it with the singular word of the President.

This bill is an attempt to make it legitimate to protect those doing the tourture.

Torture is (was) illegal. This law was only rushed through Congress once Bush realized the judiciary was making decisions on the issue not in his favor.

The Patriot Act hasen't changed my life one bit. I don't think this will either. Not directly anyway.

We live in a democracy. A society. It is an outrage enough if one innocent American gets captured and held without charge or jury and this country was founded upon the idea of being free of tyranny and dictator kings.

And this is far far more egregious than the Patriot Act had any hope of being.

Oh, and Joe is gonna win. Go Joe!! Suck it Lamont!
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x11362.xml?ReleaseID=964

no u fuck off.

[sleeve]

For some reason, I believe the USA has used tourture behind closed doors since the begining. This bill is an attempt to make it legitimate to protect those doing the tourture.

"The light of our ideals shone dimly in those early dark days [of the Revolutionary War], years from an end to the conflict, years before our improbable triumph and the birth of our democracy. General Washington wasn't that far from where the Continental Congress had met and signed the Declaration of Independence. But it's easy to imagine how far that must have seemed. General Washington announced a decision unique in human history, sending the following order for handling prisoners:

"Treat them with humanity, and let them have no reason to complain of our Copying the brutal example of the British Army in their Treatment of our unfortunate brethren."

Therefore, George Washington, our commander-in-chief before he was our President, laid down the indelible marker of our nation's values even as we were struggling as a nation – and his courageous act reminds us that America was born out of faith in certain basic principles. In fact, it is these principles that made and still make our country exceptional and allow us to serve as an example. We are not bound together as a nation by bloodlines. We are not bound by ancient history; our nation is a new nation. Above all, we are bound by our values.

George Washington understood that how you treat enemy combatants could reverberate around the world. We must convict and punish the guilty in a way that reinforces their guilt before the world and does not undermine our constitutional values.

Now these values – George Washington’s values, the values of our founding – are at stake. We are debating far-reaching legislation that would fundamentally alter our nation's conduct in the world and the rights of Americans here at home. And we are debating it too hastily in a debate too steeped in electoral politics.

The Senate, under the authority of the Republican Majority and with the blessing and encouragement of the Bush-Cheney Administration, is doing a great disservice to our history, our principles, our citizens, and our soldiers. The deliberative process is being broken under the pressure of partisanship and the policy that results is a travesty.

No torture.

Not now, not ever.

[Melf]

Say what you will about her, but she's right.