History lesson with Joe Lieberman

[JefmcC]

[QUOTE=Diff-chan;1063720696]Colbert lampoons those that vote or make decisions based on how "they feel" and how it doesn't matter what the truth is but what matters is your gut beliefs. It's sad that in spite of its inherent ridiculousness this "logic" has taken hold in this country.

Even if torture has taken place in this country, there are rights of the tortured and procedures in place to prohibit it. if the people get caught torturing they get brought to justice. That's what happens in a nation of laws. It's not a perfect system but it has brought America high moral standing in the world for at least a century and has been frequently emulated and admired. [quote]

Well, it's not like I expect the President or some other high official to just come out and say, "Yeah, we tourture people, so?" I "believe" it because I've drawn conclusions on what I've expierenced/observed.

This legislation tears down those procedures and rights and replaces it with the singular word of the President.

Agreed, and it sucks.

Torture is (was) illegal. This law was only rushed through Congress once Bush realized the judiciary was making decisions on the issue not in his favor.

Agreed, and it sucks.

We live in a democracy. A society. It is an outrage enough if one innocent American gets captured and held without charge or jury and the this country was founded upon the idea of being free of tyranny and dictator kings.

Agreed, and it sucks. Not just for Americans, but all people.

And this is far far more egregious than the Patriot Act had any hope of being.

Agreed, and it sucks. But I still don't think it will affect my life. However, it's just the further errosion of our Constitution and what we hold as values. I hope the next president we elect brings some moderation to the table. No lefty nutjobs, but someone with some moderate sense.

no u fuck off.

Mortal Kombat

[Diff-chan]

Well, it's not like I expect the President or some other high official to just come out and say, "Yeah, we tourture people, so?"

Why not? President Bush said it. He also says that the government puts wiretaps on American citizens without a warrant.

[icarusfall]

No one should be tortured. I don't care if it's Osama himself. But, let's be clear, punching someone in the face isn't torture. Waterboarding is.

Here's the problem with torture: it doesn't work. It's been proven time and again that under torture people will confess to nonexistant crimes. People will give you false information just to make it stop. Remember the Spanish Inquisition? It turns out it was far too inquisitive. We're getting like that. It's not good.

[JefmcC]

Why not? President Bush said it. He also says that the government puts wiretaps on American citizens without a warrant.

Torture is morally disgusting, wire taps are something else.

Bush seems to have developed a pattern of admitting stuff when he's backed into a corner by a report.

[Diff-chan]

Torture is morally disgusting, wire taps are something else.

Something else = unconstitutional (when warrantless).

[JefmcC]

Something else = unconstitutional (when warrantless).

Both suck, yes.

[Bacon McShig]

Agreed, and it sucks. But I still don't think it will affect my life.

So things are only valid if they affect you directly? Come on, man, the world would be a total hell if everyone had that kind of outlook.

[JefmcC]

So things are only valid if they affect you directly? Come on, man, the world would be a total hell if everyone had that kind of outlook.

Not exacty what I meant. Actually not at all what I meant.

I don't support this bill.

[burgundy]

Say what you will about her, but she's right.

I always said I did not like Hillary, but that passage is changing my mnd.

[Tommy Tallarico]

Not to sound like an uncaring ass. But don't terrorists do that to our soldiers, journalists, and civilians over there? I know I know ... we are a more civilized society. But still.

Your post reads like it's right out of Bush's propaganda playbook, complete with generalizations of what defines a terrorist.

To use the old cliche: Two wrongs don't make a right.

If we're a country torturing our prisoners, we would be in no position to be denouncing countries and groups that do. Becoming what you are going against does not make things right, and it certainly invalidates any negative opinion we had ever previously had on torture.