a thought on how i think the next Ninja Gaiden should have been done

[Tracer]

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
How do we know that? Show me the last 2D game that was developed specifically for consoles and given a propper budget that crashed and burned over here.

The point is as such that his point doesn't quite hold-up. I don't belive that (reguardless whether it happend or not) all of the 2D supporters buying every 2D game that came out current consoles would be enough to adequately support 2D. I could be wrong, but what is the value of makeing a speculative statement if I couldn't be. My point is not whether or not we've been given the oppurtunity to support 2D, but that IF we were given said oppurtunity, it would amount to nothing. I don't think that's too faulty a statement. But I could be wrong.

As to Castlevania - that IS a good point, however I would like to see a new franchise (that happens to be GREAT let us say) do the same in 2D.

ºTracer

[Cheebs]

Originally posted by Master of 7s
You answered your own question and proved my point. Where would Harmony of Dissonence be and why would Konami be considering making another 2/2.5D PS2 exclusive Castlevainia game if Circle of the Moon hadn't sold? Where would Circle of the Moon be if Symphony of the Night hadn't sold well? What would we be dealing with today if Castlevainia 64 HAD sold well?

I don't wanna think about that last one.

So if the 2D Castlevanias have proven themselves and the 3D ones haven't, why is all the 2D Castlevania being shoved to a back burner portable system? What more do we have to proove?

The point is as such that his point doesn't quite hold-up. I don't belive that (reguardless whether it happend or not) all of the 2D supporters buying every 2D game that came out current consoles would be enough to adequately support 2D.

Who's to say only the "hardcore" 2D supporters would buy an epic 2D console based adventure if it turned out great? Advertise and the mainstream will give it a look. Some of them will think it's cool if they are told it's cool. And if it turns out to be a great game that will get even more sales based on its own merrits. A game can be "made" high profile you know. God knows the Final Fantasy serries was.

[Captain Vegetable]

Chibi, you're sig is freaking awesome!!!

[Tracer]

Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
So if the 2D Castlevanias have proven themselves and the 3D ones haven't, why is all the 2D Castlevania being shoved to a back burner portable system? What more do we have to proove?

Who's to say only the "hardcore" 2D supporters would buy an epic 2D console based adventure if it turned out great? Advertise and the mainstream will give it a look. Some of them will think it's cool if they are told it's cool. And if it turns out to be a great game that will get even more sales based on its own merrits. A game can be "made" high profile you know. God knows the Final Fantasy serries was.

But then, would that high profile game really need to be 2D to begin with?

ºTracer

[Cheebs]

Thanks, Captain Vegetable.

Well, if that high profile game wanted to look, feel, and play like a 2D game (and that's the whole point), then yes, it would have to be 2D.

[Shin Johnpv]

hell honestly im not even saying 2d in art it can be 3d in art but give me some 2D gameplay at least thats how the new Contra looks to be and I CAN NOT WAIT for it

hoenslty take what was started in the Adventure mode of SSB:M an dbuild a game around it

i dont see why if it has 3D graphics why it has to play in 3D too

i dont see why Ninja Gaiden couldnt have been done with 3D graphics but have a 2d Game engine like the old game was set up

the comment about team ninja doing

team members change over time remember the original NG was made in what 80 something your now 15 - 20 years later the team ninja that made that game is not the same team ninja thats making the new one


and yes i do beleive a 2d game in both art and game play could sell
BUT
1 you have to make it in high res im sorry but thats just how it has to be
2 it needs advertising
3 Hype it up in the mags


Ill make an example State of Emergency that game was hyped to no end to be some insanely great game and the buying public fell for it the same could be done with a 2D game


Honetly i could care less how the art is
you want the game to have 2D art fine
you want the game to have 3D art fine

but id like to see more games with 2D gameplay a locked camera im sorry but 90% of the games i end up having problems with it boils down to the camera why i cant play the new Spiderman game the camera is so awful

I mean i just think Super Smash Bros:Melee is such a perfect example it has 3D graphics but 2D gameplay and it just works so well

today i had a revelation while watching my boss play WWE Wrestlemania X8

think about it the graphics are in 3D but the gameplay is still the same 2D gameplay since day one of wrestling games (this is just the general gameplay you know what i mean)

I mean even look at most RPGS alot of them 3D graphics same 2D Gameplay

I knwo im sick of gamers bitching too and thats kinda what i did here
well what it became so i kinda did what im sick of of so im sorry about that

but i think ive come to the conclusion that id like to see a game with 3D Graphics but i guess as i call it 2d Gameplay

i dont see why it couldnt work and i dont see why it wouldnt sell well

but thats me

[Saint of Killers]

Originally posted by Master of 7s
Both similarly stupid reasons at best. For all anybody here knows, Team Ninja probably made all the damn Ninja Gaiden games. In fact, if I recall the ending credits of the original arcade version of Ninja Gaiden correctly that particualr game WAS made by Team Ninja so I can't imagine the NES versions were done by some other Tecmo team.

So much for the "it was made by Team Ninja" argument. If Team Ninja sucks so much then all the original NES games must suck too and everybody is too stubborn to admit it.

Ya know what's funny? I loved Sakaguchi's FF games on the NES and SNES. I think 7 and up suck.

[gameoverDude]

The arcade Ninja Gaiden came out in late 1988- about 13 1/2 years ago.

Originally posted by Johnpv

team members change over time remember the original NG was made in what 80 something your now 15 - 20 years later the team ninja that made that game is not the same team ninja thats making the new one

[Brotherman]

Hmmm... I think it's time for me to jump into this little discussion.

2D being accepted by the mainstream:

Actually, I think this is possible. I'm going to pose a question to you. How many of those mainstreamers that may turn their heads at 2D games have actually played them. I have two cousins that though they played my uncles NES a little before hand, were pretty much PSX generation gamers. Yet they always come over wanting to play my Genesis? I know this one example doesn't account for everyone, but it does mean the possibility is there. A 2D game can be put in a kiosk just as easily as a 3D one and if the people play and enjoy it, they may just be willing to buy it. Of course so ads would help too.

2D gaming going backwards:

Artistically wise, I don't think that's true. Many elements in 3D games can be simulated in 2D games with a bit of work. In this way, 2D is just a different art style just like you have animation vs. live action. While 3D can increase graphically with more polygons and better textures, 2D game can also improve with higher resolutions and more animations. I'm sure I'm no the only one that has thought of playing a game that looked just like a cartoon or anime you've seen on TV (and no, Cell Shading doesn't make it look exactly the same). Artistically, if the work and power were put into it, 2D games could reach that pinnicle. Even gameplay wise, 2D games still seem to have very long life (only time will tell if 3D games will be able to attain such a timelessness as well).

2D vs. 3D, worthiness to exist:

Both styles should be allowed to exist and grow. Good and bad games come from both, but the good is definitely worth it.

Finally, Sequels in name only, or the innovation people beg for:

And here's my sendoff. For me, some of the transitions from 2D to 3D have disappointed me, and some have not. One thing it got me to consider though is some of the extremes we go through as gamers. Many times we beg for sequels but bash if it doesn't have enough new features/changes. Now I will agree that playing a game with the same engine can get boring, but it doesn't have to be a new game to be fun. Sometimes with the way we talk, that's what we practically want though, so maybe in a way we are getting what we wanted. Would you really have nothing to complain about if they gave the game the same gameplay as the older games but updated the graphics for today? I'll leave that for all of you to think about.