Team Fortress 2

[dave is ok]

I think it's ok. You put a sapper on a turret and an engineer has a choice, to switch to his shotgun and shoot the spy or to switch to the wrench and whack it off. If he switches to the wrench, you already have another sapper on his dispenser, whatever else is in the room, and his turret again before you die. Something is going to blow up.

[Thief Silver]

If there is no one else in the room Spy > engy the whole problem with the scenario is that you're a spy acting alone, well this is Team Fortress, you're not supposed to be able to singlehandedly take out multiple opponents while achieving the objective, you're supposed to do your job and let others do theirs.

[jyoung]

But the spy's primary job is to neutralize turrets, and by consequence of that, the engineers who build them.

Sure, having friendly fire on helps (how many servers actually do this though? I have yet to find one), but by large, I think it is much more difficult for the spy to "do his job" than it is for any other class in the game.

One more possible solution that could be lifted from Quake Wars: spys in disguise stay in disguise until they fire their weapon; backstabs, on the other hand, do not blow the spy's cover. This way, a spy who takes out a lone engineer will still be able to take out the turret, and at the same time, if he backstabs someone when other enemies are around, he is still likely to get caught.

[dave is ok]

That'd be an awesome change. I'm sure spys kill counts would be retarded though

[epmode]

Sure, having friendly fire on helps (how many servers actually do this though? I have yet to find one)

There won't be any in a few days. The creator of the game wrote that TF2 is absolutely not intended to have friendly fire and that the variable was accidentally included. It's going to be patched out.

As for the sentry gun situation, I agree that it seems a little unfair, but I've yet to play a game with a unified team which I imagine is essential to stopping engineer turtling.

[jyoung]

What what his reasoning?

Frankly, I cannot think of a single reason why FF shouldn't at least be an option.

[Port]

We need to commandeer a server and play as a unified team. That probably would be completely awesome. I call Medic. :P

[jyoung]

The same dudes I've played Wolfenstein and Quake Wars with have a 20-man server up if anyone wants to try and fill it up sometime for some team stacking (assuming auto-balance is off; if not, I can probably get them to change it).

216.224.124.22:27015

I'm done with work and free for the rest of the day btw, so I'll probably be on this a fair amount for the rest of the day. Check Steam/Ventrilo if you want in.

[Changeling]

One more possible solution that could be lifted from Quake Wars: spys in disguise stay in disguise until they fire their weapon; backstabs, on the other hand, do not blow the spy's cover. This way, a spy who takes out a lone engineer will still be able to take out the turret, and at the same time, if he backstabs someone when other enemies are around, he is still likely to get caught.

QFT. I hate losing cover once I use my knife. I really hope they do something like this.

I'm still on for Enemy Territory too

[Compass]

I played this some more today (called in sick from work), and got pretty into it. I'd prolly still be playing but it finally crashed on me after a couple hours.

It's sad how bad I suck though with everyone except the Heavy and Demoman. I had a lot of fun regardless. My team kept on winning so I guess the other guys sucked even more.