What is there to substantiate?Originally Posted by Vasteel
Let me ask you this, in this ideal world where people work 10 hours a week or just get a living check for free from the state, how do you get enough money for your hobbies? Is it included in your 10 hours of pay? What about the person giving the living check? Does the living check just cover food, a little spending money, shelter, internet, phone bill? Does it also include hobbies?
If it doesn't include enough for hobbies, isn't that kind of miserable? Just stuff your face and play on some electronic gadget? Day in and day out.
If it does include hobbies, why work? Why bother with your 40, 30, 20 or even 10 hour work week when you can just stay home and focus entirely on your hobby?
And what about grand or large enterprises? Big hobbies? Where does the money for that come from? Say you want to own three classic cars. Or you want to restore an old bar down town. Or you want to open a wood furniture shop and make porch swings. Or collect every superman comic.
Where do you get the capital? Convince the state? How is that any different than now when you convince a banker for a loan? At least now you can save the income from your labor and just go around the bank. Will we have that option in your wonder future? Or would I have to go to a state office to convince them that I need to own one of each batman figure made, so they need to give me the capital to do so, or maybe just take them away from someone that already has them on my behalf.
Maybe we'd just trade for these things? Oh, well bartering, we're right back where we started.
What about jobs that require more than 10 hours? Do you think 10s hours is ok for something like a power plant? Do you want each person only there a couple hours a day? How does that work? Would anyone even know what was going on having spent so little time there? How much time would actually be spent making sure everything works right and not handing things off to the next guy?
And what if we have to still have people work 40 hours? What is their reward for not choosing the easier path? Do we make them the lords and masters? Give them 4 times as much money? Well shit, we're back with ultra rich people that control everything.
If 10 men can make 10 widgets by hand, and you can give them each a machine to make the same widget, but 100 widgets instead of 10, you come out ahead.*
*assuming you have someone to buy them at the same or higher price of the previous widgets.
can't wake up
It was always dumb propaganda to win over the rubes. What happened with NAFTA and the like was easily predictable and predicted. It was always that unskilled jobs were lost but those people would gain cheaper goods. There was also "supposed" to be an element of retraining and redistribution that of course never came.
They didn't want to be retrained. Nor did the companies want to pay to retrain them.
Can you dig it?
Dolemite, the Bad-Ass King of all Pimps and Hustlers
Gymkata: I mean look at da lil playah woblin his way into our hearts in the sig awwwwwww
Captain Kirk, can you save me?
For unskilled workers and the unemployed, I fail to see what changes. There are plenty working 40, even 80 hours a week that can't cover the necessities. They may have time to civilize their children instead of working that second job now though.
Nah. It's what you make it. There are plenty of affectations that cost little or nothing. I actually enjoy playing lot more video games now that I spend less than my pocket change a month on them than I did when I dropped hundreds. Likewise, I buy less records than ever before, yet probably derive greater satisfaction from music now. People don't need luxuries, and need them less as retail therapy when freed from the oppression of mundane and pointless jobs.If it doesn't include enough for hobbies, isn't that kind of miserable? Just stuff your face and play on some electronic gadget? Day in and day out.
There are many people who derive great satisfaction from their work. There are some who need the catharsis of their labor. Few of these are the ones trudging off to jobs they hate but feel they need, though. We probably would see a lot more people investing time into raising their children properly since they don't have to spend their nights behind the fryer at Bojangles though.If it does include hobbies, why work? Why bother with your 40, 30, 20 or even 10 hour work week when you can just stay home and focus entirely on your hobby?
Again, I fail to see how this is any different for the unemployed now. Or the employed who can't afford something they want.And what about grand or large enterprises? Big hobbies? Where does the money for that come from? Say you want to own three classic cars. Or you want to restore an old bar down town. Or you want to open a wood furniture shop and make porch swings. Or collect every superman comic.
Where do you get the capital? Convince the state? How is that any different than now when you convince a banker for a loan? At least now you can save the income from your labor and just go around the bank. Will we have that option in your wonder future? Or would I have to go to a state office to convince them that I need to own one of each batman figure made, so they need to give me the capital to do so, or maybe just take them away from someone that already has them on my behalf.
Last edited by Vasteel; 13 Feb 2015 at 03:19 AM.
To boldly go where lots of men have gone before...
I'm surprised Alabama is already heading this way, honestly.
formerly The Gas, LordPerrin
Love the Freudian slip at 10:15. Wonder if this asshat is gonna make us send in the National Guard before this is all over.
who gives a shit what personally makes you happy?
You don't make policy based on what 'you' can live with.
You have to account for everyone. What everyone wants to do. To do otherwise is tyranny. You're essentially oppressing everyone that doesn't fit into the vasteel shaped box. We're back to prohabition type thinking. That no one should drink because the little ole bitties do not personally drink.
It's amazing that he can't see that his own argument is wrong around 6:16. Does not letting gay people marry not go against all of the same things that didn't let white/black people marry?
Last edited by Fe 26; 13 Feb 2015 at 07:30 AM.
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