Again, not to personalize but all this stuff is so familiar. Even like, the old dude with all the underage girls at the party. Ugh. (I attended a party in say, 2002 or so that was a bunch of underage "troubled" girls who were umbrella-ed on this one web forum that was owned and operated by an old perv, but story for another time. The photos of me from that day look exactly like this, minus the famous animator. Awkward smiles and everyone pretending like it was normal and we were all having fun.)Originally Posted by Fe 26
From the second I stepped on the internet at 15, there were always guys like him around. They were pretty easy to identify because they were "types" - they would buy you stuff and tell you that you were great and you were so mature and smart and blah blah blah. They gave you jobs if they had them, special roles in their lives if they didn't. That always segued into sexual or taboo talk, and as a girl you either put up with it or you didn't, but the second you showed any human emotion to them other than admiration, they just dropped you. I had no idea these guys were all reading from the same script until I was about 25. Obviously they've existed since forever, not just since the internet, but my god the internet just brought so many of them out in the open.
In some ways, I'm tired of these types of men getting endless kudos. Sometimes their art stands up to the test of time, sometimes it doesn't. I've reexamined a ton of books, art, media, and whatever else from known "predators" and a lot of it (for me) is hard to separate. Like I said, Polanski is one I can separate out and still really enjoy his movies. Some creators I can't - I know the person's flaws too well to continue to be fascinated by his work. I can't expect the board to relate entirely, and this may be a specific female experience, but sometimes knowing a guy is a piece of shit just...can't be separated.
You guys remember back in the 70’s when that 14 year old girl fucked Steven Tyler so good that he adopted her and fucked her all across the country until she got knocked up, then he talked her into an abortion and split?
You don’t? Huh. I wonder why that’s not a thing people are mad about.
Because he tied the rock scarf of immunity around his mic, noob.
"Question the world man... I know the meaning of everything right now... it's like I can touch god." - bbobb the ggreatt
i drink it up!
It's probably more natural to NOT separate it if you've been traumatized by something similar. Louis C.K. releasing a movie about sex with actress women is probably far too close to home. But a cartoon about two dog's and butts or an album like Thriller? I'm not sure burning that art isn't throwing the baby out w the bathwater. I sympathize with the situation, and it's ultimately your choice how you engage with that.
I would assume that they just don't know about it? Weinstein and Spacey got theirs eventually and they were Liberal darlings.
It probably is pretty timeless. I can't find it now, but I was reading a history article the other day about a man in pre civil war south losing his place in society because his daughters fell for one of his friends. The friend had higher social standing and when he was slandered by the dad, there was a lot of fall out. I have a pretty big hunch that the friend groomed those daughters.
I don't think it will get better for an array of reasons. The biggest being that this is the system of personal worth we all buy into. One of the ways we judge men is their ability to get girls. And in we also judge girls by their ability to attract good men. You've at least seen this with men. You've seen it here. You've probably seen it in real life. "How many girls have you dated? How long? How much sex? Oh, you have opinions I don't like? Well you probably can't get girls. Or not as many as I have. Or they were ugly. Or you might even be gay!"
So guys figure out how to get girls. How to actively get girls. Key word, actively. They do "stuff." Maybe they just play the odds. Talk to the maximum number of girls, eventually one will take interest. Maybe that doesn't work or they live in a low population. So they try to attract them with wealth, or resources, gifts, muscles, cars, careers, achievements, whatever.
Maybe none of that pans out. Maybe they get desperate and start to pull a John K and try to trick girls. Or maybe they're just shit and they start there. Maybe they're naturally manipulative.
That used to be ok but not anymore. I think society is moving to having a preference for where you just play the numbers. But in my opinion that is less than ideal because very little of our social interaction is set up for that. Its still set up for trying to earn or trick interest from a girl. Modern public school and homosocial bonding is not set up for you to meet new people of the opposite sex constantly. And it doesn't move at a speed where a girl can gain comfort with a guy to the level necessary to start a relationship, or move him along to the next batch if she doesn't like any of the options.
Really, we probably need to take one more step and just drop that old value system. Stop telling little girls they need to make men happy or do this and that to attract men. And stop telling boys that their value as a man is dependent on how many women they can get and how attractive the girls are.
And don't replace it with a new model. Just get rid of it. Fin.
"you" do you. You meet people. Maybe something sparks. Maybe it doesn't. And here comes the scary part, maybe you're alone for months or years. Maybe you're not. But no value is placed or points given.
But as long as we assign status and rewards for attracting people of the opposite sex, we're going to have people as you described. You're going to have cheaters and scammers in any reward system.
Last edited by Fe 26; 03 Apr 2018 at 12:44 AM.
The same reason some countries don't put nazi's that are on their death bed on trial?
formerly The Gas, LordPerrin
That's why.
I never cared about R&S that much, and I will continue to not care about it. I didn't have cable until I was 21, I don't have the Nickelodeon memories a lot of people do, haha. If someone wanted to introduce me to it now, I would probably decline.
As far as MJ goes, I absolutely wouldn't fault anyone who wanted to avoid his work. It's not an issue personally, but I also never had the deep attachment to his work that some did in their youth, so it doesn't feel like some sort of betrayal.
Ultimately the choice is on the individual, you're right. I'd be the last person to call for the annihilation of materials made by an abuser.
There are people who I stanned for really hard when I was younger, but after I found out about their rotten behavior it became unpalatable to me to keep respecting them as artists. Mostly like, dirtbag noise musicians who I used to think were the epitome of cool - and then I found out they were just rapists and abusers. *cough, Michael Gira, *cough* To be honest, as important as Marilyn Manson was to me as a youth, I have lost rapid respect for him in the past few years for similar reasons. It's hard for me to wrangle the person I admired with the douchelord I see before me. It varies from person to person, though.
Last edited by Satsuki; 03 Apr 2018 at 01:18 AM.
I've met all examples - some guys who have a lot, some guys who have very little. Usually, they have pretty shit self esteem themselves. That seems to be the connecting factor. I've met a handful that were just manipulative assholes, and they enjoyed fucking with women because they absolutely despised everything about them.
I think one of the things we've accomplished in the past few years is awareness. I don't think we'll ever see a full behavior stop of shitty dudes - that would negate thousands of years of power structure and I don't see that going away anytime soon. But, yeah, there's more awareness now with the internet. Look at the tweets you posted, it's literally "oh yeah, me too." That girl also had a weird experience with the John guy. Without twitter, without the internet, she probably would have never shared that with the general public. There's receipts of his weird behavior, in the pictures and drawings and whatever else. Everyone can see this. It's not heresy or sitting in a box in a basement.The internet has given women (and other marginalized communities) a pretty big voice these last 10 years or so. We've overcorrected some with extreme identity politicking, but I also think we're feeling around for an equilibrium in society that hopefully will leave us better off. We'll see.Really, we probably need to take one more step and just drop that old value system. Stop telling little girls they need to make men happy or do this and that to attract men. And stop telling boys that their value as a man is dependent on how many women they can get and how attractive the girls are.
And don't replace it with a new model. Just get rid of it. Fin.
"you" do you. You meet people. Maybe something sparks. Maybe it doesn't. And here comes the scary part, maybe you're alone for months or years. Maybe you're not. But no value is placed or points given.
But as long as we assign status and rewards for attracting people of the opposite sex, we're going to have people as you described. You're going to have cheaters and scammers in any reward system.
I don't even think someone like him could pull this now. The girls could search tags or search terms and see girls getting the same gifts.
It's like when kirk beat Kahn because Kahn thought in naval terms.
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